Intercity Mk1s

[Drsatan]

I have seen a few photos of Mk1 coaches in Intercity Swallow livery. Although I got the impression they were largely used on charter services, I found a video which showed a 37 + Intercity Mk1 rake on what appeared to be a normal revenue-earning service at Crewe.

Can anyone confirm what services Intercity Mk1s were typically used on?

 

[TheEdge]

I *think* they spent a fairly long time as buffet and parcel vehicles in rakes of newer coaches. Although that might be rubbish!

 

[HSTEd]

As I understand it there was the Cobbler set that ran Northampton trains, but I don't know if that was ever painted in Swallow or if it remained in Blue and Grey to the end.

 

[Masbroughlad]

As I understand it there was the Cobbler set that ran Northampton trains, but I don't know if that was ever painted in Swallow or if it remained in Blue and Grey to the end.

I think they were NSE mk1s.

 

[sprinterguy]

I think they were NSE mk1s.

Indeed - I didn't think that the "cobblers" were part of the Intercity operation, but rather they were affiliated with Network South East: Hence the repaint of a single 86 into NSE livery.

Back on the original topic, Intercity operated a large fleet of IC swallow liveried mark 1s on landcruise and merrymaker tours. These could be identified by their white roofs.

I'm not sure what Intercity used rakes of Intercity liveried mark 1s (with black roofs) on in revenue-earning service, but mark 1 restaurant vehicles served in Crosscountry mark 2 rakes into the early 1990s (Until replaced by newly converted mark 2 micro-buffets), and West Coast used full brake vehicles with their mark 3 rakes (Though typically retaining BR blue & grey livery) prior to the introduction of DVTs in the late eighties.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

There were Mk1 BGs on the WCML until the Mk3 DVTS were delivered, Anglia Railways had an Intercity livery Mk1 buffet which stayed in service until the Mk3 sets arrived (around 2003?), but otherwise, from what I can gather, the remaining MK1 coaches were either in 'the charter rake' (with white roof paint) or on Crosscountry workings (until HSTs from the ECML arrived)

 

[sprinterguy]

Anglia Railways had an Intercity livery Mk1 buffet which stayed in service until the Mk3 sets arrived (around 2003?)

Did Anglia really retain a mark 1 buffet vehicle into the 21st century? The London to Norwich mark 2 rakes, in both Intercity and Anglia days, used mark 3 RFM vehicles, which replaced mark 1 catering vehicles in the late eighties/early nineties I think. One of these did survive in Intercity livery until the end of the mark 2 rakes on these services.

 

[SGS]

Euston-Aberystwyth seemed to produce them when they were in 'executive' livery. See photo (not mine): http://www.flickr.com/photos/goatphots/8675180914/

 

[Polarbear]

As I recall, Mk1's had been largely phased out on "Inter City" services prior to sectorisation & the creation of the IC sector. There were Mk1 BG's around & also Mk1 buffets in some sets but these were quickly eliminated when sets were standardised.

Anglia had the last 2 x Mk1 buffets in service & I think these weren't retired until around the year 2000 though I could be wrong on that.

A 37 hauling a rake of Mk1's in "Swallow Rail" livery is likely to be a charter, though as has been stated above, the London - Aber turn did yield some interesing stuff in it's time.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Did Anglia really retain a mark 1 buffet vehicle into the 21st century? The London to Norwich mark 2 rakes, in both Intercity and Anglia days, used mark 3 RFM vehicles, which replaced mark 1 catering vehicles in the late eighties/early nineties I think. One of these did survive in Intercity livery until the end of the mark 2 rakes on these services.

Well, having a quick look, there may have been more than one, I recall 1850 because of Hornby's model, but this image is 1871 in 1999 and, apparently, according to another forum (found in a Google search), there may have been 1842 as well.

Looks like they might have had some Mk2 RFBs too....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tibshelf/9280517899/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tibshelf/9389856123/in/photostream/

 

[455driver]

Were some mk1s refurbished and painted in IC colours for services out of St Pancras?

I think some were compartment stock as well.

 

[jimm]

Rough summary, from the book British Railways Mk1 Coaches, by Keith Parkin, published in 1991.

In 1984 a rake of 13 mk1s was refurbished at Derby to show what could be done with them if a bit of money was spent. New ceilings, lights, seat covers, carpets and toilets, including a corridor second coach, with six-seat and eight-seat layouts in the compartments. Set was painted in InterCity executive livery. It was passed to run at 100mph and, as 455driver says, was used on Derby/Nottingham-St Pancras services for a while - I think with 37/4s as traction - then went into the BR charter fleet.

Some of the ideas from the refurbishments were adopted in other Mk1 stock that was expected to run for a few more years, especially catering cars, but also Mk1 first class stock used on Motorail trains and charters. All of these got the executive, then Swallow livery. GUVs used by Motorail also ran in this livery.

 

[Helvellyn]

Were some mk1s refurbished and painted in IC colours for services out of St Pancras?

I think some were compartment stock as well.

Correct. TSOs 4919, 4927, 4930, 4946, 4961, 4966, 4979, 4996, 5001, 5008 and 5009 were refurbished with new panelling, fluorescent lighting, carpets, seat covers. SK 18753 was refurbished with new seating, new panelling and lowered ceilings, with seven 6-seater compartments and one experimental 8-seater compartment. BSKs 35454 and 35465 were refurbished with new seating, new panelling, lowered ceilings and fluorescent lighting. If I recall they were used on a St Pancras to Derby service, along with facelifted FKs 13341 and 13342. All the vehicles were initially allocated to Cricklewood in 1985 (CW).


Some Mark 1 FKs were refurbished for use on the Stirling-Euston Motorail service, with they operated with carflats (former Mk 1 coach underframes). This train operated six times a week, alternating between Up and Down services Mon-Sat. In Winter the FKs were transferred from Euston Downside (EN) to Carlisle Upperby (CL) and used on charter services. If I recall correctly, refurbishment saw the salmon pink InterCity moquette used on the seats, with carepts throughout although original lighting and wood panelling was retained. Vehicles refurbished were 13225, 13227, 13228, 13229, 13230, 13236, 13237.


As has been mentioned Mark 1 BGs were heavily used by InterCity. Many were NEAs (top speed of 100 mph), although West Coast Mark 3 sets had NHAs (top speed of 110 mph). CrossCountry were the biggest user of BGs after the Mark 3B DVTs were introduced onto West Coast services, though these were displaced in the early 1990s as that sub-sector acquired virtually all the Mark 2D/2E/2F BSOs. BGs remained in use on Sleeper services, until ScotRail replaced them with BUOs converted from Mark 2E TSOs.

Motorail services used dedicated GUVs, many of which carried InterCity livery. Where a chalkboard remained attached to the body this was painted in exceutive dark grey with italicised silver "Motorail" branding.


Some Mark 1 TSOs were used in West Coast loco-hauled sets in the late 1980s, and gained InterCity swallow livery along with facelifted interiors (including red dogger moquette). Again, if I recall correctly, this was as a result of vehicle shortages after the Colwich accident, which wrote off a number of Mark 2F and 3A vehicles. Once the former ScotRail Mark 3A TSOs moved South these vehicles transferred to he Charter sub-sector.


A small number of Mark 1 RMBs that had originally been refurbished by Network SouthEast for use on Liverpool Street to Cambridge services made it across to InterCity, working for a while out of Etches Park (DY). The vehicles gained a payphone and microwave oven, carpets and the red dogger InterCity moquette. The vehicles concerned were 1842, 1850 and 1871.

A number of Mark 1 RBRs allocated to Crown Point (NC) were refurbished with new seating, carpets, a payphone and wheelchair space. Vehicles refurbished were 1647, 1683, 1686, 1689, 1691, 1692, 1697 and 1699.

 

[SeanG]

There was a Mk1 in IC livery at Shildon 2 weeks ago, persume its still there.
I was wondering the same question tbh, so asked my mate and he said it was probably just for charter services

 

[jopsuk]

from what I understand, the charter coaches had white roofs?

 

[Helvellyn]

from what I understand, the charter coaches had white roofs?

Only those that were part of the VIP fleet (Sector code ICHV) that were used on luxury days out and landcruise services. Various vehicles were in this group at different times including: -

• RF 325, which had served with the Royal Train for a number fo years.
• RBRs in the 16xx series
• Staff Couchettes 2833 and 2834 converted from BCKs
• FOs in the 30xx and 31xx series
• FKs in the 133xx series
• BFKs in the 170xx series
• BCKs in the 212xx series
• Kitchen Car 80041 converted from RBR 1690

 

[Dave Henwood]

Inter City MK1s were primarily used for 1st Class Charter work, they were all at one time based at Bounds Green, London. Distinguishing features were a high level of presentation which included white roofs and white painted wheel rims. The logo INTERCITY was eventually replaced by SPECIAL TRAINS and then replaced again by a variety of heritage paint schemes, some authentic, some not.

 

[Dunc108]

I have seen a few photos of Mk1 coaches in Intercity Swallow livery. Although I got the impression they were largely used on charter services, I found a video which showed a 37 + Intercity Mk1 rake on what appeared to be a normal revenue-earning service at Crewe.

Can anyone confirm what services Intercity Mk1s were typically used on?

I remember riding an Intercity MK1 rake in the late 80s from Lancaster to Oxenholme, it was operating a Crewe - Carlisle 'Relief' in the Summer - obviously done for extra capacity, they still had table lamps & curtains. I can swear the same rake went on to operate some Blackpool - Manchester Victoria Club trains in the early 90s. There were quite a few MK1 Buffet/Restaurant coaches in use on ordinary rakes until the early 90s aswell.

 

[a good off]

I remember a full rake of intercity MK1s being in use on the Edinburgh - Inverness circuit during 1992. 1015 ex Inverness and something like a 1430 ex Edinburgh.

 

[fowler9]

As has already been said I'm sure that there were a decent number of Mk 1 BG's in executive livery on the west coasts Mk 3 rakes prior to the DVT's being introduced.

 

[Taunton]

There were a number of Mk 1 vehicles painted into the Swallow livery which were assigned to the "charter" fleet of Inter-City.

However, besides being used on actual charters the rakes were also used extensively at other times as substitutes or supplements for various mainstream IC operations, such as days before Christmas or when trainsets were out of operation for various reasons. They therefore turned up in a number of places.

The Northampton "Cobbler" vehicles, in Network SouthEast colours, likewise, turned up in various other places over time. I recall they regularly operated a Sunday evening service from Liverpool Lime St to London Euston - I caught it a couple of times, paying the (was it £1 or £2 then ?) Weekend First supplement to ride in a side compartment FK, I think every time on my own. I presume it had to run back to Northampton for Monday morning.

 

[theblackwatch]

There was a Mk1 in IC livery at Shildon 2 weeks ago, persume its still there.
I was wondering the same question tbh, so asked my mate and he said it was probably just for charter services

The coach at Shildon is a BCK (21274), which is part of the National Collection.