Interesting article in the Guardian about 24 Tube service around the world

[StateOfPlay]

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/n...m-barcelona-berlin-sydney-new-york-copenhagen

The day after moving to Brooklyn from London I asked my friend what time the subways shut. A beatific smile dawned on her face as she said: “Never”. The trains have run all day and all night since 27 October 1904, when the city’s first underground section opened. At 2.45am at Marcy Avenue station, just south of the Williamsburg bridge, an occasional car passes below the elevated tracks with a burst of hip-hop. The J train runs through here – from which Jay Z supposedly took his name – from way out east in Queens, through Brooklyn, and into Manhattan.
In the subway car, three people are asleep and three are sleepily looking at their phones. The one person doing neither is 24-year-old Serena, in leopard-print leggings and purple sneakers. “I’ve just left my girlfriend’s house and I’m going to my mom’s,” she says, then swivels round to the subway map behind her, points at a stop in Bed-Stuy, frowns and asks, “Do you know how I get here?”

 

[gtr driver]

It's disappointing in that there is no analysis. Just saying that other cities have 24 hour metros doesn't tell us why having this in London is difficult. Sadly this is increasingly typical of all media, quality end included.

 

[Bletchleyite]

London isn't quite as much of a 24 hour city as many others, though.

 

[StateOfPlay]

London isn't quite as much of a 24 hour city as many others, though.

I will take your word for it, I only work in London, I can't afford to go out and about on the town and I am tucked up in my bed snoring long before the Tube closes at night.

So I assume the few thousand that want to party all night, or the crooks and villains who get up to no good through the night, well they will be happy if no-one else is.

 

[fowler9]

Interesting read.

 

[Busaholic]

Agreed, an interesting read. You'll find though, if you read it carefully, that only New York has a history of 24 hour operation as the norm, the others being far more recent and, in some cases, restricted to Saturday night or just the one line. London is also a much bigger city than most of the others mentioned, and the only one with a comprehensive, frequent night bus service serving all parts. London's tube service is also, for historical and political reasons, geared to two thirds of the capital at the expense of the other third, so a New York-type operation would provoke disquiet from swathes of South and South East London if suburban rail routes were not opened for longer hours too.

 

[fowler9]

Everywhere is different. It depends on what you are doing and where you are staying. In Liverpool I will generally stay till the traditional last orders at around 11 and then head home to my suburban home. In London this means going home much earlier because it is dead big. Ha ha.

 

[Busaholic]

In London this means going home much earlier because it is dead big. Ha ha.

Yes, even in the middle of the night it can take 85 minutes to get from central London to Heathrow on the one bus. If you were going from one side of London to the other, without any undue delay you're talking nearly three hours on a bus. These times dwarf any comparable journeys in the other cities mentioned. Even a tube from Upminster to Ealing takes a hell of a time.

 

[fowler9]

Yes, even in the middle of the night it can take 85 minutes to get from central London to Heathrow on the one bus. If you were going from one side of London to the other, without any undue delay you're talking nearly three hours on a bus. These times dwarf any comparable journeys in the other cities mentioned. Even a tube from Upminster to Ealing takes a hell of a time.

Yeah, mate of mine used to live in West Ealing, now lives in Weybridge. May as well be different cities. Weybridge is nice though.

 

[ScotGG]

London isn't quite as much of a 24 hour city as many others, though.

That's because evening transport is pretty awful for many. Two hours or more to get home on a nightbus for many is not unusual. Not worth going out. Plus, with housing so expensive more and more people are forced out past zone 4 and faced with rubbish buses.

Many cities in the world make a huge amount by being nightlife centres. I've known many people over the years who go to places like Berlin as its nightlife is so good bringing lots of tourist cash.

Then there's night workers - again many forced out by rising costs in inner zones. They have very slow trips at the moment which the tube / DLR / rail could really help.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Then there's night workers - again many forced out by rising costs in inner zones. They have very slow trips at the moment which the tube / DLR / rail could really help.

Argument is flawed. Most night workers/shift workers - whom Night Tube is supposedly targeted at - are either travelling in and out of town before/after the 'regular' Tube service has finished/started, or cannot afford to pay the higher costs of using the Tube using buses. The "shift workers" argument has been debunked many times by many sources, yet still TfL base their business case on that.

The target market is very small, even if London were a "24 hour" city as suggested above. Although many would 'like' a Night Tube service, the reality is that operating an hour later would cater for most traffic due to several licensing restrictions within the city which are not transport-related.

Of those clubs that do close later/earlier (Depending on your viewpoint), most are located nearby to 24/7 eateries, with many opting to have food/drinks and then camp out the 30 minutes or so (by this point) until services resume the following day. An argument could be made for opening earlier on a Sunday, though.

All this said: I'm not personally fussed whether Night Tube happens or otherwise, although, speaking as a member of staff, there are a lot more assurances that need to be made to us, and arrangements put in place, before I would be happy working during it, and providing a "visible staff presence".

 

[deltic]

Is it just me but the article refers to full trains but the pictures and videos seem to show they are pretty empty. I have not travelled on the tube when it runs all night at New Year so dont know how busy it is then but during London 2012 I came home on a very empty Northern Line at 2am.

As others have said London now has a very extensive night bus network which when I have travelled on it at 4/5am going into London has been packed with cleaners, security guards and all the other minimum wage employees the city depends upon but who would never be able to afford to travel on the tube network

 

[Busaholic]

Argument is flawed. Most night workers/shift workers - whom Night Tube is supposedly targeted at - are either travelling in and out of town before/after the 'regular' Tube service has finished/started, or cannot afford to pay the higher costs of using the Tube using buses. The "shift workers" argument has been debunked many times by many sources, yet still TfL base their business case on that.

The target market is very small, even if London were a "24 hour" city as suggested above. Although many would 'like' a Night Tube service, the reality is that operating an hour later would cater for most traffic due to several licensing restrictions within the city which are not transport-related.

Of those clubs that do close later/earlier (Depending on your viewpoint), most are located nearby to 24/7 eateries, with many opting to have food/drinks and then camp out the 30 minutes or so (by this point) until services resume the following day. An argument could be made for opening earlier on a Sunday, though.

All this said: I'm not personally fussed whether Night Tube happens or otherwise, although, speaking as a member of staff, there are a lot more assurances that need to be made to us, and arrangements put in place, before I would be happy working during it, and providing a "visible staff presence".

I would broadly agree with you on this. Making last trains on all lines half an hour to one hour later on all nights of the week, and an earlier start on Sundays, would be a sensible compromise. Those who can afford to drink the night away can afford to pay for a cab home, or, alternatively, indulge themselves nearer to home.

 

[exile]

London isn't quite as much of a 24 hour city as many others, though.

Is that because it doesn't have a 24 hour "subway" service? Chicken and egg?

 

[miami]

Has it started or not?



Because that sign uses the present tense

 

[jopsuk]

not started yet. The pay and conditions negotiations needed before it can start are going so poorly strike action is planned.

 

[miami]

I wonder why they are advertising it in the present tense then. "Night tube operates", not "Night tube will operate"

 

[jon0844]

Weren't a lot of signs put up and covered up ready to be unveiled presumably the day services started? Maybe someone bored at the station peeled the cover off to see what was underneath?

 

[urbophile]

Isn't another reason for London not being a 24 hour city like New York or some continental cities, that since the 19th and 20th century suburban expansion comparatively few residents live in the city centre? And apart from wealthy expatriates and wealthy bankers, even fewer do these days. The latter are less likely to use the tube too, having chauffeur driven limousines at their disposal or at least the cash for taxi fares.

 

[Tom B]

I would broadly agree with you on this. Making last trains on all lines half an hour to one hour later on all nights of the week, and an earlier start on Sundays, would be a sensible compromise. Those who can afford to drink the night away can afford to pay for a cab home, or, alternatively, indulge themselves nearer to home.

I agree. Extending the operating hours could be done without need to introduce an entirely new service. The existing operation on New Years' Day results in a poor service the next morning which impacts said shift workers trying to get to work.

 

[Mojo]

Weren't a lot of signs put up and covered up ready to be unveiled presumably the day services started? Maybe someone bored at the station peeled the cover off to see what was underneath?

The stickers were never covered up in the first place.

 

[jon0844]

The stickers were never covered up in the first place.

Oh. That's silly. Surely now they need to be covered up then.

 

[Mojo]

Oh. That's silly. Surely now they need to be covered up then.

Is it even possible to stick a sticker over a sticker?

 

[PermitToTravel]

Oh. That's silly. Surely now they need to be covered up then.

I daresay it suits management and their position in the dispute to have them uncovered, even if that is unhelpful to the 2 or so passengers who haven't yet heard that it isn't running yet.

 

[NY Yankee]

Isn't another reason for London not being a 24 hour city like New York or some continental cities, that since the 19th and 20th century suburban expansion comparatively few residents live in the city centre? And apart from wealthy expatriates and wealthy bankers, even fewer do these days. The latter are less likely to use the tube too, having chauffeur driven limousines at their disposal or at least the cash for taxi fares.

I live in New York and I can assure you that London is a MUCH better city (again, I'm not making comparisons, I'm addressing this specific post)

The NYC subway runs 24/7, but there's usually construction on some lines during nighttime hours. Those lines are usually replaced by shuttle buses. Also, there are many lines that run local instead of express during the night. This allows for track work to be done on those respective lines. Since there are many redundancies in the NYC subway, repairs can be done by shutting down portions of a line rather than the entire line.

With the exception of the Metropolitan Line, all of the Tube lines only have 2 tracks. That means that if construction has to be done then the entire line is shutdown. Not having 24 hour service has nothing to do with London not being a 24/7 vibrant city. If regular maintenance isn't performed, then the infrastructure would eventually suffer damage


https://youtu.be/hD8Ssy1im1A?list=PL8a799Sz_DYRRt1HnOjketNHTx3QoA3er