Right, while the via Denmark Hill and Clapham Junction is acceptable to both Not Underground (£28.90) and Not Via London (£29.80), the reason the former isn't offered is because of this easement, which bans Clapham Junction if you're going from Elephant to Brighton (amoungst other locations) specifically for Not Underground routes. Obviously not particularly sensible, given Not Via London is allowed, but easements often have strange consequences.
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BRX
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Ah, I see. Thanks.
I guess the intention is to push passengers onto Thameslink rather than Southern services along the BML (but why not just do this with a "Thameslink only" restriction)?
Train companies are not permitted to create brand-specific tickets.
They can create dedicated fares, which are fares restricted to one or more train company, as defined in the Ticketing Settlement Agreement, but only where they are not the fare setter.
So, for a flow where Southeastern is the fare setter, GTR can introduce a dedicated fare valid on all GTR services. But they cannot create a fare that differentiates between brands, nor can they create a dedicated fare if they are the fare setter.
But for this to be discussed any further, you'd need to create a new thread.
Joe Paxton
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Except, of course, GTR did exactly that!
It is to prevent use via Waterloo and other termini and onwards to London Bridge.
Use of Gold Card Travelcard clarification needed
I have decided to buy myself a London Zones 1-2 annual Travelcard as I anticipate to travel for at least 11 months in a year by tube extensively, 7 days a week. It will come with a Gold Record Card. 1. Is the Gold Record Card sent to the address in my TfL Oyster and Contactless account? 2. The...
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BRX
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The question of why the fare changes (for route elephant - tulse hill - east croydon - brighton) if I make Loughborough Junction a "stop or change at" point remains, I think.
Oh, sorry, I misread this first time. When I do a search from Elephant & Castle to Brighton with pass/stop/change at Loughborough Junction, I get a £23.36 split.
If I do the same with stop/change at Loughborough Junction, I still get this, but I also get some other journeys at £30.30, but these take me all the way back into London and back out. I don't see any change in fares for the routes via Tulse Hill.
Adam Williams
Established Member
Is this a good point to suggest that, if you're going to ask a question about specific results, you please paste a search URL in your post to this thread.
BRX
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Yes, sorry, I should have done that in the first place.
Link
In the results I get for that search there's one leaving elephant at 16.40 arriving brighton 18.45 (via Loughborough Junction, Streatham and East Croydon). It gives a price of £37.40 for a split - but as far as I can see, a £29.80 off peak return ought to be valid for that journey.
All of the results in that search, for me, come back as £44.30...
Either way, they all go back into London Bridge which is why they're not valid.
BRX
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Something a little odd is happening because that's what I get if I follow my own link above. But if I refresh the page it changes and I get this:
And this is the itinerary:
The two return journeys it can combine with that outbound journey to sell a ticket for travel via City Thameslink.
BRX
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But I think it should be able simply to combine it with a return journey by the same route, and offer me an off peak return, which would be cheaper.
But all of the return journeys it found go via London...
If you do something as simple as adding avoid London this problem all goes away.
BRX
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Ok, now I understand what's happening. Presumably it doesn't offer the same route back because the route via London is faster.
What's confusing is that I'd expect the "via LGJ" demand to rule out anything via london because doing so requires doubling back (elephant to Loughborough Junction then back through elephant). But for some of reason these routes doubling back appear to be allowed.
What's confusing is that I'd expect the "via LGJ" demand to rule out anything via london because doing so requires doubling back (elephant to Loughborough Junction then back through elephant). But for some of reason these routes doubling back appear to be allowed.
There's no issue with doubling back, and I don't understand why you're suggesting it's strange.
The journey planner simply tries to find a variety of fast and cheap journeys which match your requirements, of which these do. It can't exhaust every potential route or combination of journeys, though.
The double-back into London journeys are perfectly valid and they're being sold as such with a combination of multiple tickets.
BRX
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Ok, I get it now - hadn't realised it was offering a brighton to london including z1-6 travelcard as part of the return journey rather than a normal single. Hence the doubling back is not a problem.
WelshBluebird
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Looking at Plymouth - Hedge End on Saturday 31st May for two adults with a two together railcard, and The Trainline is giving me £39.20 via SplitSave for the 11.14 departure (arriving at 15.37) but the forum site (and trainsplit) is saying £48.80 for the same services. Looks like The Trainline are splitting at Newton Abbot and the forum site / TrainSplit are splitting at Totness, but searching for the individual splits the trainline uses (at Newton Abbot) on TrainSplit and the forum site show they are there so not sure why it isn't giving them as a cheaper price for the through journey.
I'm likely to book these tickets separately in the next half hour to ensure I get the fares (and I'm making some other bookings at the same time so want to get it all done at once) but wanted to flag.
I'm likely to book these tickets separately in the next half hour to ensure I get the fares (and I'm making some other bookings at the same time so want to get it all done at once) but wanted to flag.
Adam Williams
Established Member
Unfortunately, we are not permitted to search for splits exhaustively due to restrictions imposed by RDG and one of their suppliers. As a result, in a minority of cases, this can happen where the relevant Advances are not prioritised.
Please see https://raileasy.co.uk/improving-uk-rail-fares-and-train-ticketing for more information about the artificial constraints imposed today by the industry and the change that Raileasy is calling for.
I will pass it on to those responsible for the heuristic in question though, and I suspect they have will be able to make an improvement quite promptly.
You are very welcome to book them separately by adding into the basket individually. Use the seat selector to ensure the seat is consistent.
Can you provide the search link?
We will get this looked at
If it's just one split at NTA, then I think we should find that. If it's a further split then we may need to tweak the logic.
If we are not finding it with one split then it may be related to the extra restrictions imposed by RDG but either way we will get the relevant people to look into it
WelshBluebird
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Thanks for the replies - booked separtely but incase it helps the search URL was https://tickets.railforums.co.uk/re...ass=false&flexible=false&selectionMethod=Grid
Egg Centric
Established Member
It would be good to publicise this link more heavily. While I was already aware of these constraints as we've discussed them before, this was first I've heard of the petition.
Adam Williams
Established Member
Me too
NorthWalian
Member
Is there any chance that I can get the best fares again without having to filter out Avanti?
Adam Williams
Established Member
You'd need to be more specific about the route etc that you're running into this problem on.
Have you tried the intensive search in the advanced options?
Hi all,
I think I might have just found a more efficient split than the forum’s ticket site shows for flexible tickets between Edinburgh and Stevenage via Cambridge. All fares are with a 16-25 railcard and during a weekday, leaving Edinburgh around mid-day.
Trainsplit suggests splitting at Royston, resulting in a
- Super off peak single to Royston at £63.50
- Anytime single to Stevenage at £6.15
TOTAL: £69.65
If I however manually split at Letchworth Garden City, i get a
Super off peak single to Letchworth GC at £63.50
- off peak day single to Stevenage at £3.35 (the anytime single is 5.20)
TOTAL: £66.85
I think I might have just found a more efficient split than the forum’s ticket site shows for flexible tickets between Edinburgh and Stevenage via Cambridge. All fares are with a 16-25 railcard and during a weekday, leaving Edinburgh around mid-day.
Trainsplit suggests splitting at Royston, resulting in a
- Super off peak single to Royston at £63.50
- Anytime single to Stevenage at £6.15
TOTAL: £69.65
If I however manually split at Letchworth Garden City, i get a
Super off peak single to Letchworth GC at £63.50
- off peak day single to Stevenage at £3.35 (the anytime single is 5.20)
TOTAL: £66.85
Last edited:
NorthWalian
Member
It’s pretty much any route along the WCML
Adam Williams
Established Member
I get a good mix of "Valid on London Northwestern Railway and West Midlands Railway services only" walk-ups, Advances and Avanti fares for a Euston to Rugby journey.
Please provide a search link so we can advise further.
drueberflug
Member
I doubt that is supposed to be like this, but for LDS-KGX, a refundable ticket is shown to me as non-refundable.
There's a small number of ticket types with special refund conditions such as this (such as Caledonian Sleeper tickets).
These aren't present in any kind of data feeds, so it isn't really possible for us to provide accurate information for them unless we manually curate it. And we sell so few (often none?) so it doesn't make it worthwhile. In these cases, refunds would be on a manual and case-by-case basis rather than using our online portal.
This one is particularly bad because it's also shown as booked train only, while it's actually valid for any service on the day. And you get a 1st class upgrade. And if no 1st seats are available, you get £20 back.
It's probably why we seem to be the only ones that sell this ticket online...
