Still plenty of interest in this topic, I see!
Some of you seem to balk at my calling the '380' trains between Glasgow and Ayr 'rubbish'. I had no idea what their designation was when travelling on them, but when calling them 'rubbish' I was comparing them to the other trains I'd been on for that journey. In terms of passenger comfort, they hardly compare very favourably with the carriages on Virgin trains Euston to Glasgow, with the Enterprise service Dublin to Belfast, or with the Gatwick Express on the Brighton mainline. Even Southern's bog-standard carriages on that line are better. The trains to Ayr seemed more designed for short urban hops, rather than national or international journeys between Scotland's biggest city and an airport and ferryport (where passengers will typically have several kilos of luggage). They had smallish metal seats with little upholstery, and the heating wasn't up to much. I guess 'rubbish' isn't a very objective quantitative term, but I do think these carriages are less than ideal of the route and kind of journeys.
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You're kidding right?
Leave Brighton by train at 0900 to Gatwick, Flybe at 1210 and in Belfast at 1345, that's 4h.45m as opposed to leaving Brighton by train at 0900 cross London and arriving Glasgow at 1501 that's 6h.01m before you've even got to the ferry and crossed over to Belfast. It will take twice as long on a good day to do that journey by Sailrail/Railsail as it does to fly.
I think we can all reasonably expect flying in an airplane to be quicker than a train, as planes do fly several hundreds of miles per hour quicker, and don't stop along the way to let people with prams get on and off
But the point you helpfully make for me is that, when you factor in getting to their airport, "checking in", having your belt and shoes X-rayed, being obliged to walk for about a mile through daft displays of discount perfume and booze, etc etc, that the basic journey time of 'flying to Belfast' compares very favourably with a train from London to Glasgow (4'n'three quater hours versus 4'n'half). And London to Glasgow is, what, 70% of the distance? What I find exasperating is that the total SailRail time can be close to 16 hours, and about half that extra time compared to flying comes from dicking about getting between Glasgow and the ferryport, because both the road and rail links between Glasgow and the ferryport are orders of magnitude worse than the other legs.
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The frequency from Glasgow to Ayr is 3tph and this will increase to 4tph in May. I wouldn't describe class 380s as rubbish..
The last time I made the trip via the Scotch route was Xmas 2012 (tried to do it last year too but stormy winds meant the ferries were cancelled and I had to fly
)... so if they're upgraded the rolling stock or/and improved the frequency of the service in the meantime, I'll be delighted!
On past journeys on the Scotch route, I typically had a wait of 40 minutes at Glasgow Central for the onward connection to Ayr, which didn't exactly suggest a "3 trains per hour" frequency, not unless they were very unevenly spaced.
Because there's a strong likelihood that neither option is economically sustainable.
Well that probably depends on how myopic your view of economics is.
If you view it in terms of "can a single privatised company make a profit out of it", the answer may be "it's not sustainable".
However if you look at it in terms of "is it desirable for nations on these islands to allow free and easy movement of their citizens between different regions and capitals, using public transport that has a low sustainable impact on the environment", then making the train and ferry service so crap that everyone either has to fly or buy their own car is probably not sustainable either.
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You don't really state why the new arrangement is a "shambles" compared to the old....
Fundamentally, because it is daftly brainwrong to obliterate the rail connection to the ferry port whilst claiming you are "upgrading it" for "faster sailings", and the shambolic inability for sail and rail companies to schedule connecting services turns what should be a cheap alternative to flying (approaching 1/3rd of the price but only taking about twice as long) into something that takes 3 or 4 times as long.
There is something fundamentally broken about a national transport system which means it is cheaper and quicker for me to fly to, say, Istanbul or Latvia than it is for me to get home to bloody Belfast at Xmas to see my folks.
While your arguments against Stena are interesting, it would also be great to understand what you have against the likes of flybe, easyJet and Aer Lingus from Gatwick.
Basically: price, reliability and ludicrous security arrangements.
At Christmas, "budget" airlines are often charging close to £300 for a return trip to Belfast. I could fly someone considerably nicer that Belfast for that.
Reliability: because all their flights are full, if adverse weather, staff shortages or anything else means a flight is cancelled, you are basically screwed. I've been in the situation where, flying about 3 days before Xmas, I've already checked in for a flight only for it to come up on the display that it's "cancelled due to fog" and I then have to queue for another 90 mins to get my checked-in bags back, and then have a "Computer Says No" Flybe staff member tell me "Well, we can offer you a seat on a flight to Liverpool the day after Boxing Day"... in my experience, if a train or ferry is cancelled, there is (usually) more chance you can get on the next one, as it won't be full.
Security: I was flying regularly in and out of Belfast in the days when we were actually murdering and blowing each other up every day, and the airport security usually just meant a quick look in your bag and a frisk up and down. These days you have to go through all this nonsense about liquids and shoes and taking your belt off... I remember standing in Gatwick in a huge queue whilst "security" staff came along and made sure everyone put the bottles of water and juice that they'd just bought in the adjacent WH Smiths on the concourse into a big bin. The bin was right beside the queue. "Why do we have to put our water in the bin?" I asked. "Well sir, it might be a bomb." "If that's the case, isn't it a bit dangerous to put all those bombs in a big bin right beside where we're standing?" I asked. "lol sir". :roll: Load of old bollocks.
I'm not sure where you have got this from, from someone else or through you're own doing, but it's absolutely incorrect. Irish Rail allow ticket purchases 60 days in advance, UK TOCs 3 months. Furthermore, I've been offered a through ticket from London to Belfast via Dublin for the start of June, for £58 (through Arriva Trains Wales). Even in my personal experience of booking tickets on either the Belfast or Dublin routes, only days in advance, I've never had any problems..
OK, I am pleased to see this has improved - as recently as 2 years ago, Irish Rail would not sell tickets more than 28 days in advance. I see they're now doing it 60 days in advance. This is good progress.
As recently as last Autumn, Arriva Fails Wales SailRail through ticketing was still completely broken, with Irish Rail tickets still not appearing on their system until weeks after Irish Rail had released them, so if you used the Journey Planner on nationalrail.co.uk, it would tell you no journeys were available. You'd then get embroiled in ringing up Arriva's Indian call centre and speaking to people who thought Glasgow was in Ireland. If this has been fixed, it's not inconceivable it's down to the written complaint I filed with Arriva, which did indeed get a response along the lines of "oh! yes, you're quite right, it's completely broken! lol! We'd better fix that, sorry there" :roll:
Do you have something against buses?
Well I prefer travelling by train, as you get more leg room, less motion sickness, a better view and it's quicker for everyone to get on and off. Does that make me bad?
Has it ever taken you that long? It has never taken me more than 70-75 minutes.?
Yes, it has taken me that long (that's why I posted saying it had taken me that long
) It was in the dark, in the rain, stuck behind slow moving cars. We actually missed our ferry sailing and had to be put on the next one (!) Luckily it is Stena's own coach, so they let us get the next one.
It's just as well then that not everyone is trying to get on at the same time. It's also convienient that there's 20-30 minutes between the train/boat arriving and the coach leaving for this to happen.?
That's PRECISELY why the "get the bus from Ayr" thing is so shambolic! Ayr's passenger facilities consist of one slatted metal "three arse bench" beside the ticket desks. I think there may also be a vending machine selling coke and mars bars. All ferry passengers have to get off at Ayr, and stand around for 20 mins / half a hour until the coach arrives... we then have to stand in the carpark and spend another 20 mins slinging our bags in the boot and clambering on one at a time.
There are six trains a day to Stranraer, and most of them aren't even direct from Glasgow..
Well this is another part of the shambles! Up until a few years ago, passengers coming from the south could change at Carlisle and get a connecting train to Stranraer. Now you have to go all the way up to Glasgow to come all the way back down again, only getting off half way at Ayr onto a bus!:-x
