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Introduction of connecting bus Stranraer station to Cairnryan ports

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feline1

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well, even though I take all the above on board,
I still think it's daft making me get off the train at Ayr and making me get on a bus to Cairnryan :lol: No amount of keynsian economics will change that! :p
 
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Greenback

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It is daft when you compare this to the traditional harbour station and connected ferry approach.

However, that model is simply no longer viable, and it's not economic to invest multi millions to cater for a market which has been declining for years and is now tiny in comparison to the golden age of rail and ferry travel.

The faster journey and the more regular timetable are not only good for the Stena business, but also for freight hauliers and motorists, who are a substantially bigger and more lucrative passenger base.
 

CallySleeper

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About 3 or 4 years ago, I tried to buy in person at Brighton station and their system couldn't bring up SailRail tickets. I moaned to Southern and they fixed it and indeed basically confessed that if I hadn't brought it to their attention they'd have been unaware it was broken... but by that time (several weeks later) I'd already bought my ticket online.

Your problem here I suspect is that the clerks at Brighton (as many stations elsewhere) can be inexperienced and, sometimes lacking in knowledge when it comes to railsail journeys. I had one recently who still thought the journey was made through Stranraer, two years later! A drawback of booking at a station.

feline1 said:
I know Irish Ferries' website CLAIMS you can include the price of the connecting bus to the ferry port in your ticket, but last time I tried there was nowhere to actually click to achieve this

3rd booking page "upgrades"

The point *I* am advocating, CallySleeper, is that we need an effective national transport infrastructure, not something which makes a profit for individual operators.

This will always be the case with privatisation. But I'm not sure about implying it's ineffective.

If market forces get their unfettered way, we just end up with ever more services concentrated in big cities, and rural hinterlands ending up as total write-offs, with no jobs, no services, no incentive for anyone to live there. Which creates a whole raft of problems of its own.

I'm not sure what your point is here in relation to the thread? You'll find many more jobs and services in Glasgow, for example, that you will in Ayr. That is why the transport infrastructure, specifically the railway is set up in the way it is - to cater for those travelling to the city.

The failure to link up the new Cairnryan port to public transport (this little bus which gave birth to this thread notwithstanding) is a howling example of that. These things need proper planning at national (and international) level.

On the contrary. The new port, and coach service (let's face it - it's not a 'little bus') makes it a lot better integrated now than it was previously. Your problem, I think is that the port is in a rural location. You're not going to be able to make the journey much faster. 3tph from Ayr to Glasgow, soon to be 4tph is at least a lot more frequent than the services from Stranraer were.

Search these forums and indeed the internet and you'll find countless stories of people who missed the train at Stranraer and had to wait x hours for the next one, because the boat was delayed. You don't get that now.

Reading all of the posts here, I do think you're somewhat blowing the security issues at airports a little out of proportion.

Any regular flyer will tell you that they're very easy to comply with once you're prepared.

Moaning about them to airport staff is frankly daft - they don't make the rules, they have to enforce them.

Agreed.
 

feline1

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I wonder if Scotch independence will help? If they leave the UK, they'll need to be even more careful about letting about 80% of the geographical area of Scotland wither into an uninhabited hinterland where no-one lives apart from sheep, where there's one bus on alternate Wednesdays.
 

harz99

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I still think it's daft making me get off the train at Ayr and making me get on a bus to Cairnryan

You have alternatives though.

Train to Carlisle, and the once daily X75 bus to Stranraer and choice of taxi/shuttle bus, or even the public bus which runs between Stranraer and Ayr several times daily and passes BOTH Cairnryan ports.

Or train to Stranraer via Glasgow, and the onward travel from Stranraer as above. Then you really will have cause for complaint on the old 156 units!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The first thing to do is to recognise that the traditional rail-sea-rail market is moribund. There is no real reason for any company, whether rail or sea based to try and make any improvements in this sector, as they will simply not get a return on the investment.

Well now; as you obviously accept that otherwise you wouldn't have worded your post that way, any further discussion is pretty pointless and adds nothing to this thread (read the title) at all.
 

CallySleeper

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I wonder if Scotch independence will help? If they leave the UK, they'll need to be even more careful about letting about 80% of the geographical area of Scotland wither into an uninhabited hinterland where no-one lives apart from sheep, where there's one bus on alternate Wednesdays.

Let's cross that bridge, etc.

I think as well you also need to remember why, in the first place Stena moved their operations to Cairnryan. Not only is the sailing shorter but the quality of the passenger facilities in Stranraer wasn't great, compared with what there is now.

As I think has already been said, the transport options for foot passengers wasn't sustainable in the long term, TOCs no longer generally schedule their services to cater for ferry passengers. I think what you're arguing is that this shouldn't be the case.
 

feline1

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.

Or train to Stranraer via Glasgow, and the onward travel from Stranraer as above. Then you really will have cause for complaint on the old 156 units!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Well now; as you obviously accept that otherwise you wouldn't have worded your post that way, any further discussion is pretty pointless and adds nothing to this thread (read the title) at all.

I have a reply from ScotRail in my inbox where I asked them about the whole "getting a coach from Ayr thing", and they just said "well Stenaline run the coach from Ayr, so go ask them".
I have replied asking if I can not go on by train to Stranraer (then get the bus which started this thread to go the last 6 miles). I asked them if the train to Stranraer is included in my SailRail ticket as a 'reasonable route' or if I'd have to buy an extra single, and if they have any trains on their timetable that would let me connect with ferries. We'll see what they say :)
 

reb0118

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This is an example from Glasgow Central to Cairnryan P&O Terminal here:-

I believe the wee bus (350) also stops at the Stena Termimal.

After much faffing about to get the system to accept the Stena Terminal there does not seem to be a rail connected option given thus. We all however know that is not true as the wee bus (350) does connect both ports with the station at Stranraer!
 
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CallySleeper

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I have replied asking if I can not go on by train to Stranraer (then get the bus which started this thread to go the last 6 miles). I asked them if the train to Stranraer is included in my SailRail ticket as a 'reasonable route'
I'm not sure about this. You would need to email ScotRail about it as they operate the trains, Stena probably wouldn't be able to answer your question. Both parties (and train conductors) may well insist that you get the coach from Ayr with everyone else.

Your ticket certainly wouldn't be accepted on Stagecoach buses from Stranraer to Cairnryan, I wouldn't think.

Connections (Monday - Friday):
Code:
Depart               Arrive
Glasgow Central 0730 Ayr 0823
Ayr 0837             Stranraer 0958
Transfer/taxi to Cairnryan
Cairnryan 1130       Belfast 1345

Glasgow Central 1150 Stranraer 1404
Transfer/taxi to Cairnryan
Cairnryan 1530       Belfast 1745

In reverse:
Code:
Depart          Arrive
Belfast 0730    Cairnryan 0955
Transfer/taxi to Stranraer
Stranraer 1250  Glasgow Central 1512

Belfast 1130    Cairnryan 1355
Transfer/taxi to Stranraer
Stranraer 1443  Ayr 1604
Ayr 1623        Glasgow Central 1711

Belfast 1530    Cairnryan 1755
Transfer/taxi to Stranraer
Stranraer 1908  Glasgow Central 2131

i.e., really not worth it.
 
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feline1

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i.e., really not worth it.

lol u underestimate my bloodymindedness :lol:

I would be happy to pay a few quid extra to get that wee bus.

Alternatively, I think I may prefer to go Brighton > Troon > Larne > Belfast, even though I would have to buy separate legs, as P&O mysterious don't participate in SailRail (!? why the devil not. I have emailed them to ask .. P)
 

CallySleeper

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well, even though I take all the above on board,
I still think it's daft making me get off the train at Ayr and making me get on a bus to Cairnryan :lol: No amount of keynsian economics will change that! :p

What would you rather do, walk?

The only alternative and previous arrangement of getting a longer, less regular, even smaller train from Stranraer is what many would call daft.
 

Greenback

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The only alternative and previous arrangement of getting a longer, less regular, even smaller train from Stranraer is what many would call daft.

Especially since his first post on the subject was to complain about the length of the journey and quality of the trains!
 

feline1

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Oh my giddy aunt.
So Brighton > Belfast (SailRail) is £52.

But Brighton > Troon is £160 (!?!?!) Plus £26 for the P&O ferry and then the fare Larne > Belfast, giving nearly £200.

Logic? :lol:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Especially since his first post on the subject was to complain about the length of the journey and quality of the trains!

At this rate I'd be better getting my own luxury yacht and sailing there... :lol:
 

Argosy

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On the contrary; Stena's core business is road freight, private car and coach parties and some scheduled coach services, the foot passenger is a very insignificant and sometimes inconvenient part of their business.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well perhaps won't you dont know is that whilst Stena's business was declining the proportion of ferry foot passengers was increasing. Indeed
whilst passenger numbers fell from 1.779m in 1998 to 1.104m in 2008, the proportion of rail borne passengers was increasing. Indeed in 2008 the estimated number of ferry foot passengers was 46,639 some 2.6% of the port’s total, but by 2008 this had increased to 58,281, a 25% increase in real terms and 3% of total port throughput.:D
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The frequency from Glasgow to Ayr is 3tph and this will increase to 4tph in May. I wouldn't describe class 380s as rubbish.



Because there's a strong likelihood that neither option is economically sustainable.

Care to justify that?
 

Argosy

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There are six trains a day to Stranraer, and most of them aren't even direct from Glasgow. Also, by the time it even gets to Stranraer, you could be at the ferry terminal already. So, slower and less frequent, compared with fast and regular. The Stranraer trains aren't even timed to connect with sailings - so more waiting. Cause for your complaints I'm sure!

Interestingly half the trains from Stranraer to Glasgow are direct.

It is also quicker by rail going outbound.

Train from Glasgow to Ayr 1130, Coach to Cairnryan arrive 1350 ferry sailing 1530!

Train from Glasgow to Stranraer 1150 arr Stranraer 1404 bus to Cairnryan arr 1420. Why be 1hr 45 mins at the terminal before you need to be? If the train left Ayr at 1220 that would be ideal. However anyone who uses the Ayr electrics will know there are so many empty trains (which are more envirnmentally damaging cough cough than their smelly diesels) in terms of carbon emissions Yep the current arrangement is pants.

As one insider said recently "It is the most stupid decision we have made during the life of the franchise."

Then of course there is the A77 action movie!



If you take your logic we'd all go by coach in Ayrshire because for the most part it's quicker.:D
 

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reb0118

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Belfast 1130 Cairnryan 1355
Transfer/taxi to Stranraer
Stranraer 1443 Ayr 1604
Ayr 1623 Glasgow Central 1711

Above quote from CallySleeper.

This was exactly the way I returned from Belfast the last time I did the route. The outward way was a bit more far fetched. (Edinburgh - London [via sleeper] - Cardiff - Fishguard - Rosslare - Wexford [2x nights] - Dublin - Belfast [1x night])
 

Argosy

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I'm not sure about this. You would need to email ScotRail about it as they operate the trains, Stena probably wouldn't be able to answer your question. Both parties (and train conductors) may well insist that you get the coach from Ayr with everyone else.

Your ticket certainly wouldn't be accepted on Stagecoach buses from Stranraer to Cairnryan, I wouldn't think.

Connections (Monday - Friday):
Code:
Depart               Arrive
Glasgow Central 0730 Ayr 0823
Ayr 0837             Stranraer 0958
Transfer/taxi to Cairnryan
Cairnryan 1130       Belfast 1345

Glasgow Central 1150 Stranraer 1404
Transfer/taxi to Cairnryan
Cairnryan 1530       Belfast 1745

In reverse:
Code:
Depart          Arrive
Belfast 0730    Cairnryan 0955
Transfer/taxi to Stranraer
Stranraer 1250  Glasgow Central 1512

Belfast 1130    Cairnryan 1355
Transfer/taxi to Stranraer
Stranraer 1443  Ayr 1604
Ayr 1623        Glasgow Central 1711

Belfast 1530    Cairnryan 1755
Transfer/taxi to Stranraer
Stranraer 1908  Glasgow Central 2131

i.e., really not worth it.

It is not a Stagecoach bus, it is the Electric bus! And no Rail & Sail is not valid by Stranraer.
 

HSTEd

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That would be cool :D
Although wouldn't a tunnel be less subject to extreme weather? Mind you, they manage OK between Copenhagen and Malmo...

A tunnel would in theory be less subject to extreme weather but a drive through tunnel of that length is essentially impractical.
And the Chunnel Shuttle debacle has shown us just how uncompetitive the train shuttle approach is (a drive through route would likely have killed all the remaining Channel ferries).

A properly engineered bridge would likely be able to operate in almost all conditions, and despite what people like to joke about the weather in Scotland Northern ireland, storm level conditions are not actually that common, even in winter.
 

harz99

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I have no wish to fall out with you, however that data is so out of date as to be irrelevant, it was also before the move to Port Ryan and is an estimate, which we all know can be highly inaccurate and subject to the wishes of whomsoever commissioned the estimate.

Whilst all of this maybe interesting it is way off topic for this thread.
 
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Argosy

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I have no wish to fall out with you, however that data is so out of date as to be irrelevant, it was also before the move to Port Ryan and is an estimate, which we all know can be highly inaccurate and subject to the wishes of whomsoever commissioned the estimate.

Whilst all of this maybe interesting it is way off topic for this thread.

So are you querying

a. Official Dft data?
b. Data supplied by the ferry operator?

This data isn't made up it is drawn from official or commercial scources. I suggest you get in touch with the Dft ports division and you can check it for yourself. It's one thing to have an opinion another to start querying official figures. Which of course is your perogative, but I trust you have evidence to prove your figures are more accurate than the operators of the services in question from which no doubt it is drawn.

The ferry traffic may will come back to the railway. If nothing else Stena are needing to save money.
 

kylemore

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Oh my giddy aunt.
So Brighton > Belfast (SailRail) is £52.

But Brighton > Troon is £160 (!?!?!) Plus £26 for the P&O ferry and then the fare Larne > Belfast, giving nearly £200.

Logic? :lol:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
:

OK just get off at Troon reducing cost to about 90 quid - it's an open station nobody will know!
 

CallySleeper

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So are you querying

a. Official Dft data?
b. Data supplied by the ferry operator?

This data isn't made up it is drawn from official or commercial scources. I suggest you get in touch with the Dft ports division and you can check it for yourself. It's one thing to have an opinion another to start querying official figures. Which of course is your perogative, but I trust you have evidence to prove your figures are more accurate than the operators of the services in question from which no doubt it is drawn.

The ferry traffic may will come back to the railway. If nothing else Stena are needing to save money.

You don't say where you got your numbers from, or indeed what relevance some statistics has in this thread. If you want to make a point with statistics, historical data is probably no good.

Either way, it does prove that rail and sail passengers are a minority market, not that you need to go through the data to see that.
 

harz99

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So are you querying

a. Official Dft data?
b. Data supplied by the ferry operator?

This data isn't made up it is drawn from official or commercial scources. I suggest you get in touch with the Dft ports division and you can check it for yourself. It's one thing to have an opinion another to start querying official figures. Which of course is your perogative, but I trust you have evidence to prove your figures are more accurate than the operators of the services in question from which no doubt it is drawn.

The ferry traffic may will come back to the railway. If nothing else Stena are needing to save money.

Go back to your post 74.

You quote me regarding Stena's core business, and then go on to attempt to paint a rosy picture of an increase in Stena foot passengers using old figures from an unknown source, which as it happens prove exactly what I said regarding Stena Line and their core Irish business to/from Loch Ryan.

A whole estimated 3% foot passengers means 97% business is non foot passengers, and if you examine your post further you quote 2008 twice when talking about growth. On the assumption you meant from 1998 to 2008, an estimated increase of 00.4%. over that period is miniscule and hardly counts as growth.

I don't need to "prove" anything as I am not the person quoting those figures, you are. I must thank you though, for providing figures, albeit out of date, which prove the point regarding how small a proportion of business the foot passengers are for Stena Line across the Irish Sea.
 

Argosy

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You don't say where you got your numbers from, or indeed what relevance some statistics has in this thread. If you want to make a point with statistics, historical data is probably no good.

Either way, it does prove that rail and sail passengers are a minority market, not that you need to go through the data to see that.

I think you'll find I did. I said that the figures come from the Dft Port Statistics and Stena themselves.

However you are missing the point. The point wasn't is the rail market sizeable the post was about getting the people there!

Indeed for the rail & sail market to grow by 25% over the 10 year period 1998 - 2008 is good in contrast to all those car and bus passengers which clearly deserted the route in droves.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Go back to your post 74.

You quote me regarding Stena's core business, and then go on to attempt to paint a rosy picture of an increase in Stena foot passengers using old figures from an unknown source, which as it happens prove exactly what I said regarding Stena Line and their core Irish business to/from Loch Ryan.

A whole estimated 3% foot passengers means 97% business is non foot passengers, and if you examine your post further you quote 2008 twice when talking about growth. On the assumption you meant from 1998 to 2008, an estimated increase of 00.4%. over that period is miniscule and hardly counts as growth.

I don't need to "prove" anything as I am not the person quoting those figures, you are. I must thank you though, for providing figures, albeit out of date, which prove the point regarding how small a proportion of business the foot passengers are for Stena Line across the Irish Sea.

I said the stats came from the Dft and Stena. Check them out yourselves they are available but for domestic short sea you have to go to a different series. The freight data I recall was in section 3. Indeed I rang the department up. The analysis was done in 2010-11 for a project that was independantly scrutinsd so I am sorry that you dont like the data but it is the only set out there!

Now if you want current data and just to prove how the current arrangement appears to be useless the RMT calculates numbers using the ScotRail link are down to around 10k. Two years ago it was 59k.

So our man in Brighton wins my vote. Next.

For what its worth I would fly from Belfast to London. I don't care for long convoluted train journeys and when I go down to the south coast I never go by train. Too expensive, too difficult and takes forever.
 

kylemore

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When all is said and done doesn't this debate essentially come down to crying over spilt milk?

Would it not be better to concentrate on developing a future for the Stranraer line?

Maybe it should have been different with constraints being placed on low fare airlines and Stena forced to remain at Stranraer or nationalised if they put the two fingers up to that! But we don't live in a world where that is possible, we have to live in this one.
 

Greenback

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I think you'll find I did. I said that the figures come from the Dft Port Statistics and Stena themselves.

However you are missing the point. The point wasn't is the rail market sizeable the post was about getting the people there!

The point is that it's a small flow in the grand scheme of things, and any public investment has to show a real benefit.

Clearly Stena are not concerned about such a tiny market, and Scotrail can probably find a better use for their rolling stock, so where is the money to subsidise better rail/sea links going to come from?

Indeed for the rail & sail market to grow by 25% over the 10 year period 1998 - 2008 is good in contrast to all those car and bus passengers which clearly deserted the route in droves.

Bandying stats about is all very well, but the fact is that if I had 4 customers in my shop last year, and I grow the business by 25%, I still only have 5 customers and will undoubtedly make a huge loss and go out of business!

It is the total market that matters and if it's not economically viable, something has to change.


I said the stats came from the Dft and Stena. Check them out yourselves they are available but for domestic short sea you have to go to a different series. The freight data I recall was in section 3. Indeed I rang the department up. The analysis was done in 2010-11 for a project that was independantly scrutinsd so I am sorry that you dont like the data but it is the only set out there!

It's not the data per se, but how you ar eusing it and the conclusions you are drawing from it.

Now if you want current data and just to prove how the current arrangement appears to be useless the RMT calculates numbers using the ScotRail link are down to around 10k. Two years ago it was 59k.

I don't think anyone disagrees that the new arrangements since the move to Cairnryan are worse than they were previously for classic rail and sea foot passenger traffic. It's no surprise if traffic has fallen substantially. Faced with a transfer from train to coach, many people who still want to travel will just switch to travelling throughout by coach.

Stena wanted to improve their core business, and that meant that a small (3%?) share of their market ended up being disadvantaged.

For what its worth I would fly from Belfast to London. I don't care for long convoluted train journeys and when I go down to the south coast I never go by train. Too expensive, too difficult and takes forever.

I suspect that your view is shared by the vast majority of other people who need or want to travel between Northern Ireland and the south of England.

This is exactly why the market for foot traffic, particularly by rail, has shrunk. Sinc epeople who want to take their cars over can't fly, this is why the road market has increased. As a result of this, the rail ship facilities at Stranrear, serving a tiny proportion of the overall traffic between Scotland and NI, have been abandoned in favour of better facilities for lorries and cars at Cairnryan, and a shorter, more efficient sea journey.

It's fine to moan about that, but nothing is going to change until or unless the market changes again. I don't know what the future is, and many people have made themselves look foolish by making predictions!

When all is said and done doesn't this debate essentially come down to crying over spilt milk?

Would it not be better to concentrate on developing a future for the Stranraer line?

Yes, and I have argued for this. I have been sad to see the demise of traditional harbour stations, built specifically to connect with ferries, but it has been inevitable. What we need now is to secure the Stranraer line for the future by redesigning the timetable, and fare offerings, to make it work as a gateway to a beautiful region of Scotland rather than merely as a ferry terminal.

Maybe it should have been different with constraints being placed on low fare airlines and Stena forced to remain at Stranraer or nationalised if they put the two fingers up to that! But we don't live in a world where that is possible, we have to live in this one.

Exactly, we cannot ignore the realities of our times. As I said, anyone who wants to curtail budget airlines is effectively on the way to committing political suicide!
 

feline1

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It's ultimately a political and environmental issue.

There's no question that market forces alone will lead to a private ferry operator investing in supporting 97% of its business rather than in 3%.

However there is Big Money available to fund sustainable transport at EU level, and Big Reasons to do so (up to and including complete ecological amageddon and the destruction of human civilisation as we know it:lol:) so, really, all things considered, that wee bus from Stranraer to Cairnryan ain't really cutting it :lol:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Exactly, we cannot ignore the realities of our times.

Those with vested commercial interests in fossil fuels seem remarkably adept at doing precisely that <D

As I said, anyone who wants to curtail budget airlines is effectively on the way to committing political suicide!

Well there already are a lot of 'green taxes' on these airlines, and fares across the Irish Sea are no longer £20 a pop (as they once were) - even off peak out of season will sting you for around £120.
 

Argosy

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The point is that it's a small flow in the grand scheme of things, and any public investment has to show a real benefit.

Clearly Stena are not concerned about such a tiny market, and Scotrail can probably find a better use for their rolling stock, so where is the money to subsidise better rail/sea links going to come from?



Bandying stats about is all very well, but the fact is that if I had 4 customers in my shop last year, and I grow the business by 25%, I still only have 5 customers and will undoubtedly make a huge loss and go out of business!

It is the total market that matters and if it's not economically viable, something has to change.




It's not the data per se, but how you ar eusing it and the conclusions you are drawing from it.



I don't think anyone disagrees that the new arrangements since the move to Cairnryan are worse than they were previously for classic rail and sea foot passenger traffic. It's no surprise if traffic has fallen substantially. Faced with a transfer from train to coach, many people who still want to travel will just switch to travelling throughout by coach.

Stena wanted to improve their core business, and that meant that a small (3%?) share of their market ended up being disadvantaged.



I suspect that your view is shared by the vast majority of other people who need or want to travel between Northern Ireland and the south of England.

This is exactly why the market for foot traffic, particularly by rail, has shrunk. Sinc epeople who want to take their cars over can't fly, this is why the road market has increased. As a result of this, the rail ship facilities at Stranrear, serving a tiny proportion of the overall traffic between Scotland and NI, have been abandoned in favour of better facilities for lorries and cars at Cairnryan, and a shorter, more efficient sea journey.

It's fine to moan about that, but nothing is going to change until or unless the market changes again. I don't know what the future is, and many people have made themselves look foolish by making predictions!



Yes, and I have argued for this. I have been sad to see the demise of traditional harbour stations, built specifically to connect with ferries, but it has been inevitable. What we need now is to secure the Stranraer line for the future by redesigning the timetable, and fare offerings, to make it work as a gateway to a beautiful region of Scotland rather than merely as a ferry terminal.



Exactly, we cannot ignore the realities of our times. As I said, anyone who wants to curtail budget airlines is effectively on the way to committing political suicide!

I can't understand your issue with the data. The point I was making was that the numbers were growing in contrast to Stena's which were declining. I never said that VOLUMES were large. But there again the volume of people using rail is tiny as a proportion of total journeys is it not? So using your argument why invest in rail?

If you think waving goodbye to 60% of your market is good business then no I wont come to your shop! It is the railway/Scottish Government that wouldn't do the deal not Stena and that is what is bonkers.

The decision to move to Cairnryan made sense for Stena it is the Scottish Government's response which is somewhat baffling.

In blunt terms there is no real future for the Stranraer line south of Girvan unless a number of things happen.

1. The ferry passengers are put back on the route (eminently do-able just needs a timetable to match).
2. Meeting local and ferry needs are NOT mutually exclusive.
3. The only conflict is late shoulder am peak. It would make sense to leave Stranraer about 9.15 but the ferry doesn't arrive till 9.45 thus a 10.40 departure would suit, but that is out of kilter with local needs.
4. Trains at 1440 and 1840 are fine.
5. The tourism marketing effort is poor which is why the ferry traffic is important.
6. Connectivity at Stranaer is poor too. Don't blame the railway for that blame the local Council (RTP).

As for this future of the Stranraer line what are your suggestions. You just may have a brainwave.:idea:
 

kylemore

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If the not unachievable target of an hourly Glasgow to Girvan service can be reached - even better with an el cheapo Paisley Canal style electrification - then the connecting coach could operate from there. You would be on the boat having your tea by the time the bus from Stranraer got to Cairnryan (electric or otherwise)!

Such an hourly service would vastly increase usage if experience elsewhere is anything to go by - indeed with electrification you could even make the Girvan train an extension of the hourly Edinburgh - Ayr service just announced!

As an example of lines that have survived their roles as ferry connectors look no further than the Kyle of Lochalsh line and the Mallaig extension of the WHR although in both cases access to fish traffic was also a factor.

The Kyle line now has no ferry connection traffic and although Mallaig will still have minimal traffic to Armadale and the Small Isles it doesn't survive because of that.
 
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