Ireland and Northern Ireland unit and carriage numbers

[swt class 450]

I was not sure where to put this as it is about both Irish (International) and Northern Irish (UK) trains so ive put it in this section.

Can anyone explain how the unit and carriage numbering works in Ireland and Northern Ireland. I am just a bit confused as to how it works.

2600 / 2700 / 2800 - These seem to have two unit numbers per unit but no carriage numbers? Or is a unit made up of one single cab carriage? If so does these operate in fixed formations?

2750 - Single coach (basically the Irish 153s) units? These have a unit number but no carriage number?

450 (withdrawn) / 3000 / 4000 / 22000 / 29000 - These seem to have one unit number per unit just like the UK units? How do the carriage numbers work?

8100 / 8200 / 8500 / 8510 / 8520 - These are even more confusing. There are 8300 / 8400 / 8600 / 8610 / 8620 as well? They seem to have different unit numbers for the same unit? Not sure if they have carriage numbers as well?

Also on Dublin Trams there a clear visible difference between 3000/4000 and 5000 but is there any difference between the 3000 and 4000 trams?

Also is there any websites that have stock lists of Irish and Northern Irish units? In the UK we have www.abrail.co.uk (and various books from Platform 5 and other publishers) but i cant seem to find any websites for Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Many thanks.

 

[59CosG95]

I was not sure where to put this as it is about both Irish (International) and Northern Irish (UK) trains so ive put it in this section.

Can anyone explain how the unit and carriage numbering works in Ireland and Northern Ireland. I am just a bit confused as to how it works.

2600 / 2700 / 2800 - These seem to have two unit numbers per unit but no carriage numbers? Or is a unit made up of one single cab carriage? If so does these operate in fixed formations?

2750 - Single coach (basically the Irish 153s) units? These have a unit number but no carriage number?

450 (withdrawn) / 3000 / 4000 / 22000 / 29000 - These seem to have one unit number per unit just like the UK units? How do the carriage numbers work?

8100 / 8200 / 8500 / 8510 / 8520 - These are even more confusing. There are 8300 / 8400 / 8600 / 8610 / 8620 as well? They seem to have different unit numbers for the same unit? Not sure if they have carriage numbers as well?

Also on Dublin Trams there a clear visible difference between 3000/4000 and 5000 but is there any difference between the 3000 and 4000 trams?

Also is there any websites that have stock lists of Irish and Northern Irish units? In the UK we have www.abrail.co.uk (and various books from Platform 5 and other publishers) but i cant seem to find any websites for Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Many thanks.

I'm not sure about all the rolling stock, but the 3000 and 4000 Series trams differ by being 30m and 40m long respectively. Platform 5 also has a book for Irish stock and locos.

 

[tranzitjim]

What does Ireland have that is stored, for sale or etc?

 

[JonathanH]

Ireland

Wikipedia has the 2600 and 2700 formations which for the ones I have seen, appear correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IE_2600_Class

2601/2602 2603/2604 2605/2616 2606/2615
2607/2608 2610/2613 2611/2612 2614/2617

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IE_2700_and_2750_Classes

2701/02 - 2713/14, 2715/24, 2717/18, 2719/22, 2721/20, 2723/26
2716 operated as a hybrid 2-car unit with 2609 (Also withdrawn)
2751 & 2753 are single car units

The 2800 are all formed 'correctly'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IE_2800_Class

2801/2802 - 2819/2820

Carriage numbers on 29101-29129 are 29101-29201-29301-29401 etc and carry the units carry their carriage number on each end - eg the first unit carries 29101 on one end and 29401 on the other.

81xx/83xx are 2-car units, 85xx/86xx/86xx/85xx are 4-car units
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIÉ_8100_Class
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IE_8200_Class
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IE_8500,_8510_and_8520_Classes

Northern Ireland

Carriage numbers on 3000 and 4000 trains in Northern Ireland are x3yy-x5yy-x4yy where x is 3 or 4 and yy is between 01 and 23 (3000 class) and 01 and 20 (4000 class). They carry a unit number on the front x0yy (eg 3001 is formed 3301-3501-3401)

Coaching stock
This is explained here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaching_stock_of_Ireland

Interestingly, the UIC numbers of the Irish Rail and Northern Ireland Railways coaches are not in the same format.

 

[swt class 450]

I'm not sure about all the rolling stock, but the 3000 and 4000 Series trams differ by being 30m and 40m long respectively. Platform 5 also has a book for Irish stock and locos.

Thanks for the info. Thats what i thought but they look exactly the same length. I think what may have happened is that the 3000 (30m) were extended to the same length as the 4000 (40m) a few years ago? I also see that they have seven new Alsthom Citadis 502 trams on order which have nine sections and are 54.6m long. This will perhaps make them the longest trams in the world?

What does Ireland have that is stored, for sale or etc?

All of the 2700 and 8200 are currently in storage (and have been for quite a few years). I believe that they have been listed for sale in the past as well.

Ireland

Wikipedia has the 2600 and 2700 formations which for the ones I have seen, appear correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IE_2600_Class


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IE_2700_and_2750_Classes


The 2800 are all formed 'correctly'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IE_2800_Class


Carriage numbers on 29101-29129 are 29101-29201-29301-29401 etc and carry the units carry their carriage number on each end - eg the first unit carries 29101 on one end and 29401 on the other.

81xx/83xx are 2-car units, 85xx/86xx/86xx/85xx are 4-car units
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIÉ_8100_Class
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IE_8200_Class
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IE_8500,_8510_and_8520_Classes

Northern Ireland

Carriage numbers on 3000 and 4000 trains in Northern Ireland are x3yy-x5yy-x4yy where x is 3 or 4 and yy is between 01 and 23 (3000 class) and 01 and 20 (4000 class). They carry a unit number on the front x0yy (eg 3001 is formed 3301-3501-3401)

Coaching stock
This is explained here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaching_stock_of_Ireland

Interestingly, the UIC numbers of the Irish Rail and Northern Ireland Railways coaches are not in the same format.

Thanks for the info. That is brilliant. Much appreciated.

So it appears that these are the numbers.

Class 450
8451 (451 - 791 - 781)
8452 (452 - 792 - 782)
8453 (453 - 793 - 783)
8454 (454 - 794 - 784)
8455 (455 - 795 - 785)
8456 (456 - 796 - 786)
8457 (457 - 797 - 787)
8458 (458 - 798 - 788)
8459 (459 - 799 - 789)

Class 2600
2601 - 2602
2603 - 2604
2605 - 2616
2606 - 2615
2607 - 2608
2610 - 2613
2611 - 2612
2614 - 2617

Class 2600/2700 hybrid
2609 - 2716

Class 2700
2701 - 2702
2703 - 2704
2705 - 2706
2707 - 2708
2709 - 2710
2711 - 2712
2713 - 2714
2715 - 2724
2717 - 2718
2719 - 2722
2720 - 2721
2723 - 2726

Class 2750
2751
2753

Class 2800
2801 - 2802
2803 - 2804
2805 - 2806
2807 - 2808
2809 - 2810
2811 - 2812
2813 - 2814
2815 - 2816
2817 - 2818
2819 - 2820

Class 3000
3001 (3301 - 3501 - 3401)
3002 (3302 - 3502 - 3402)
3003 (3303 - 3503 - 3403)
3004 (3304 - 3504 - 3404)
3005 (3305 - 3505 - 3405)
3006 (3306 - 3506 - 3406)
3007 (3307 - 3507 - 3407)
3008 (3308 - 3508 - 3408)
3009 (3309 - 3509 - 3409)
3010 (3310 - 3510 - 3410)
3011 (3311 - 3511 - 3411)
3012 (3312 - 3512 - 3412)
3013 (3313 - 3513 - 3413)
3014 (3314 - 3514 - 3414)
3015 (3315 - 3515 - 3415)
3016 (3316 - 3516 - 3416)
3017 (3317 - 3517 - 3417)
3018 (3318 - 3518 - 3418)
3019 (3319 - 3519 - 3419)
3020 (3320 - 3520 - 3420)
3021 (3321 - 3521 - 3421)
3022 (3322 - 3522 - 3422)
3023 (3323 - 3523 - 3423)

Class 4000
4001 (4301 - 4501 - 4401)
4002 (4302 - 4502 - 4402)
4003 (4303 - 4503 - 4403)
4004 (4304 - 4504 - 4404)
4005 (4305 - 4505 - 4405)
4006 (4306 - 4506 - 4406)
4007 (4307 - 4507 - 4407)
4008 (4308 - 4508 - 4408)
4009 (4309 - 4509 - 4409)
4010 (4310 - 4510 - 4410)
4011 (4311 - 4511 - 4411)
4012 (4312 - 4512 - 4412)
4013 (4313 - 4513 - 4413)
4014 (4314 - 4514 - 4414)
4015 (4315 - 4515 - 4415)
4016 (4316 - 4516 - 4416)
4017 (4317 - 4517 - 4417)
4018 (4318 - 4518 - 4418)
4019 (4319 - 4519 - 4419)
4020 (4320 - 4520 - 4420)

Class 8100
8101 - 8301
8102 - 8302
8103 - 8303
8104 - 8304
8105 - 8305
8106 - 8306
8107 - 8307
8108 - 8308
8109 - 8309
8110 - 8310
8111 - 8311
8112 - 8312
8113 - 8313
8114 - 8314
8115 - 8315
8116 - 8316
8117 - 8317
8118 - 8318
8119 - 8319
8120 - 8320
8121 - 8321
8122 - 8322
8123 - 8323
8124 - 8324
8125 - 8325
8126 - 8326
8127 - 8327
8128 - 8328
8129 - 8329
8130 - 8330
8131 - 8331
8132 - 8332
8133 - 8333
8134 - 8334
8135 - 8335
8136 - 8336
8137 - 8337
8138 - 8338
8139 - 8339
8140 - 8340

Class 8200
8201 - 8401
8202 - 8402
8203 - 8403
8204 - 8404
8205 - 8405

Class 8500
8601 - 8501 - 8502 - 8602
8603 - 8503 - 8504 - 8604
8605 - 8505 - 8506 - 8606
8607 - 8507 - 8508 - 8608

Class 8510
8611 - 8511 - 8512 - 8612
8613 - 8513 - 8514 - 8614
8615 - 8515 - 8516 - 8616

Class 8520
8621 - 8521 - 8522 - 8622
8623 - 8523 - 8524 - 8624
8625 - 8525 - 8526 - 8626
8627 - 8527 - 8528 - 8628
8629 - 8529 - 8530 - 8630
8631 - 8531 - 8532 - 8632
8633 - 8533 - 8534 - 8634
8635 - 8535 - 8536 - 8636
8637 - 8537 - 8538 - 8638
8639 - 8539 - 8540 - 8640

Class 22000
22001 (22301 - 22401 - 22201)
22002 (22302 - 22402 - 22202)
22003 (22303 - 22403 - 22203)
22004 (22304 - 22404 - 22204)
22005 (22305 - 22405 - 22205)
22006 (22306 - 22406 - 22206)
22007 (22307 - 22407 - 22207)
22008 (22308 - 22408 - 22208)
22009 (22309 - 22409 - 22209)
22010 (22310 - 22410 - 22210)
22011 (22311 - 22411 - 22531 - 22211)
22012 (22312 - 22412 - 22532 - 22212)
22013 (22313 - 22413 - 22533 - 22313)
22014 (22314 - 22414 - 22534 - 22314)
22015 (22315 - 22415 - 22535 - 22215)
22016 (22316 - 22416 - 22536 - 22216)
22017 (22317 - 22417 - 22537 - 22317)
22018 (22318 - 22418 - 22538 - 22318)
22019 (22319 - 22419 - 22539 - 22319)
22020 (22320 - 22420 - 22540 - 22320)
22021 (22321 - 22421 - 22641 - 22221)
22022 (22322 - 22422 - 22741 - 22222)
22023 (22323 - 22423 - 22642 - 22223)
22024 (22324 - 22424 - 22742 - 22224)
22025 (22325 - 22425 - 22643 - 22225)
22026 (22326 - 22426 - 22743 - 22226)
22027 (22327 - 22427 - 22644 - 22227)
22028 (22328 - 22428 - 22744 - 22228)
22029 (22329 - 22429 - 22645 - 22229)
22030 (22330 - 22430 - 22745 - 22230)
22031 (22331 - 22431 - 22631 - 22731 - 22131)
22032 (22332 - 22432 - 22632 - 22732 - 22132)
22033 (22333 - 22433 - 22633 - 22733 - 22133)
22034 (22334 - 22434 - 22634 - 22734 - 22134)
22035 (22335 - 22435 - 22635 - 22735 - 22135)
22036 (22336 - 22436 - 22636 - 22736 - 22136)
22037 (22337 - 22437 - 22637 - 22737 - 22137)
22038 (22338 - 22438 - 22638 - 22738 - 22138)
22039 (22339 - 22439 - 22639 - 22739 - 22139)
22040 (22340 - 22440 - 22640 - 22740 - 22140)
22041 (22341 - 22441 - 22541 - 22241)
22042 (22342 - 22442 - 22542 - 22242)
22043 (22343 - 22443 - 22543 - 22243)
22044 (22344 - 22444 - 22544 - 22244)
22045 (22345 - 22445 - 22545 - 22245)
22046 (22346 - 22446 - 22246)
22047 (22347 - 22447 - 22247)
22048 (22348 - 22448 - 22248)
22049 (22349 - 22449 - 22249)
22050 (22350 - 22450 - 22250)
22051 (22351 - 22451 - 22251)
22052 (22352 - 22452 - 22252)
22053 (22353 - 22453 - 22253)
22054 (22354 - 22454 - 22254)
22055 (22355 - 22455 - 22255)
22056 (22356 - 22456 - 22256)
22057 (22357 - 22457 - 22257)
22058 (22358 - 22458 - 22258)
22059 (22359 - 22459 - 22259)
22060 (22360 - 22460 - 22260)
22061 (22361 - 22461 - 22261)
22062 (22362 - 22462 - 22262)
22063 (22363 - 22463 - 22263)

Class 29000
29001 (29101 - 29201 - 29301 - 29401)
29002 (29102 - 29202 - 29302 - 29402)
29003 (29103 - 29203 - 29303 - 29403)
29004 (29104 - 29204 - 29304 - 29404)
29005 (29105 - 29205 - 29305 - 29405)
29006 (29106 - 29206 - 29306 - 29406)
29007 (29107 - 29207 - 29307 - 29407)
29008 (29108 - 29208 - 29308 - 29408)
29009 (29109 - 29209 - 29309 - 29409)
29010 (29110 - 29210 - 29310 - 29410)
29011 (29111 - 29211 - 29311 - 29411)
29012 (29112 - 29212 - 29312 - 29412)
29013 (29113 - 29213 - 29313 - 29413)
29014 (29114 - 29214 - 29314 - 29414)
29015 (29115 - 29215 - 29315 - 29415)
29016 (29116 - 29216 - 29316 - 29416)
29017 (29117 - 29217 - 29317 - 29417)
29018 (29118 - 29218 - 29318 - 29418)
29019 (29119 - 29219 - 29319 - 29419)
29020 (29120 - 29220 - 29320 - 29420)
29021 (29121 - 29221 - 29321 - 29421)
29022 (29122 - 29222 - 29322 - 29422)
29023 (29123 - 29223 - 29323 - 29423)
29024 (29124 - 29224 - 29324 - 29424)
29025 (29125 - 29225 - 29325 - 29425)
29026 (29126 - 29226 - 29326 - 29426)
29027 (29127 - 29227 - 29327 - 29427)
29028 (29128 - 29228 - 29328 - 29428)
29029 (29129 - 29229 - 29329 - 29429)

Ireland and Northern Ireland certainly have a very different numbering system to our trains in mainland UK.

The 22000 were the most complicated ones. But i found some information on www.irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com and www.irrs.ie about them. It appears that they were delivered as 3 and 6 coach sets but then a few years ago they were reformed as 3 and 4 and 5 coach sets.

 

[JonathanH]

Based on a recent visit, the 22000 units which have been extended carry two numbers on the inserted carriage, the UIC number which contains the original numbers (eg 22531) and a second number in black (eg 22811) which matches the rest of the unit. The ones which have been shortened obviously only carry the original numbers.

 

[dubscottie]

You are correct about the Luas.

3000 were 30m for the red line and 4000 40m for the green line.

The 3000's were extended to 40m.

When both lines were extended, the 4000 moved over to the red line and the green line got new 5000 trams.

Someone has not thought through the length of the new trams..

They will be longer than O'Connell bridge which means they will not be able to stop on it and will need a clear run.

Going to be gridlock!

 

[hurricanemk1c]

Slight alteration to your list:

22011 (22311 - 22411 - 22811 [22531] - 22211)
22012 (22312 - 22412 - 22812 [22532] - 22212)
22013 (22313 - 22413 - 22813 [22533] - 22313)
22014 (22314 - 22414 - 22814 [22534] - 22314)
22015 (22315 - 22415 - 22815 [22535] - 22215)
22016 (22316 - 22416 - 22816 [22536] - 22216)
22017 (22317 - 22417 - 22817 [22537] - 22317)
22018 (22318 - 22418 - 22818 [22538] - 22318)
22019 (22319 - 22419 - 22819 [22539] - 22319)
22020 (22320 - 22420 - 22820 [22540] - 22320)
22021 (22321 - 22421 - 22821 [22641] - 22221)
22022 (22322 - 22422 - 22822 [22741] - 22222)
22023 (22323 - 22423 - 22823 [22642] - 22223)
22024 (22324 - 22424 - 22824 [22742] - 22224)
22025 (22325 - 22425 - 22825 [22643] - 22225)
22026 (22326 - 22426 - 22826 [22743] - 22226)
22027 (22327 - 22427 - 22827 [22644] - 22227)
22028 (22328 - 22428 - 22828 [22744] - 22228)
22029 (22329 - 22429 - 22829 [22645] - 22229)
22030 (22330 - 22430 - 22830 [22745] - 22230)

The 228xx are renumbered from the 225xx, 226xx and 227xx, however those numbers are still used in the EVN number, but in normal use the 228xx number is used. Less paperwork that way.

In addition, there are two temporary exceptions:
22001 - 22202+22402+22301+22201+22401+22302
There's a 29000 as well

The reason for this temporary (and fixed) formation is that 29422/29122, and 22301/22201 have the new CAWS/ATP system fitted and can't be used. Thus reforming helps keep the sets in traffic

The numbering system isn't that different to UK style really, with set number series for a type of vehicle (e.g. for DARTS, 81xx, 82xx and 85xx are power vehicles, 83xx, 84xx and 86xx are trailer vehicles). It's just that set numbers aren't on the trains (but are used internally)

 

[MK Tom]

This already confusing system isn't helped by the current trend of adding EU numbers as well so an 071 suddenly has a 10-digit number and a lot of the 22000s are gaining extra digits on the front.

On locos it's also worth noting the NIR owned 201s have an extra 8 on the front of their number (8207/8208 I think?). Likewise 111/112/113 are supposed to be 8111/8112/8113, but I think only one of them carries that number.

 

[hurricanemk1c]

NIR's 201s are 8208 and 8209. 8111 is the 111 o carry the additional 8.

The only additional digits on the ICR fleets is 01/02/03/07/08/09, depending on type. It's also in white, as compared to black to the reporting number. Same on 206, 207, 226, 227, 228, 231, 232, 233 and 234. Only 084 and 088 retain the original application style of UIC numbers, the rest of the repainted ones have additional large numbers under the driver window and cabsides

 

[Helvellyn]

What were the numbers (by vehicle type) of the CIE Mark 3s? Some were built at Derby weren't they?

 

[hurricanemk1c]

What were the numbers (by vehicle type) of the CIE Mark 3s? Some were built at Derby weren't they?

The first 40-odd were built in Derby, rest were kits

7101-7172. All Standard Class apart from:
7107, 7147, 7157 [Standard Class with Wheelchair Accomodation]
7165-7172 [Composites]
7104, 7133, 7156 [Citygold First Class]

7401-7413 Buffet
7601-7615 Generator Vans

Mark 3 Push/Pulls:
6101-6105 - Control Cars with generators
6301-6319 - Standards

All with Pressure Ventilation and not Air Condtioning.
In addition, 6402 (buffet) was the former BR 40513, with AC

Whilst we are at it:

BREL Internationals
6201 - Composite - 99521
6202 - Standard Wheelchair - 99522
6203 - Standard - 99524
6204 - Standard - 99525
6205 - Standard - 99526
6206 - Standard - 99527
6207 - Standard - 99528
6208 - Standard - 99529
6401 - Buffet - 99523

Mark 4s
4001-4008 - Control Car Generator
4201-4208 - Citygold
4401-4408 - Buffet Standard
4101-4143 - Standard (4105, 4110, 4115, 4120, 4125, 4130, 4135, 4140 Standard Class End Vehicles)

DD
9001-9004 - First Class Driving Trailer
9101-9104 - First Open
9401-9404 - Buffet
9201-9216 - Standard Class (9213-16 Wheelchair)
9601-9604 - Mark 3 EGV (former 7604, 7605, 7608, 7613 in order)

 

[MidlandDeltic]

I'm not sure about all the rolling stock, but the 3000 and 4000 Series trams differ by being 30m and 40m long respectively. Platform 5 also has a book for Irish stock and locos.

3000 series LUAS have been lengthened to 40m for some years at this stage.