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Irish Rail Report

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MidnightFlyer

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A number of rail lines may be forced to close as Iarnród Éireann is threatened with insolvency, a confidential report has warned.
The draft report given to Minister for Transport Shane Ross shows the country’s rail infrastructure has deteriorated to such a degree due to funding shortages that there are now increased safety risks. It states the rail network needs more than €600 million investment over the next five years.
The report, seen by The Irish Times, says in the absence of any additional Government funding, large chunks of the rail network will have to close to eliminate the funding gap, leaving only the Dart, Dublin and Cork commuter routes and inter-city services from Dublin to Cork, Belfast and Limerick.
The review was compiled by the National Transport Authority and Iarnród Éireann to examine possible solutions for the financial sustainability of the State-owned rail operator.

That's some serious cutting!
 

hurricanemk1c

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Folks, look who commissioned the report, and then draw your conclusions, rather than look at the bold statements......

Yes, there is a fincancial issue there, but is it as bad as saying most of the network will close in 5 years, and 10 minutes added onto schedules every year?
 

reb0118

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Maybe if Irish Rail attempted to lift some fares on the train they might not be in such financial straits.

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DT611

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Maybe if Irish Rail attempted to lift some fares on the train they might not be in such financial straits.

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Indeed. but that would have required keeping staff on the trains giving the passenger something for their money. Instead the poor driver has to do everything. At least over in the uk the unions are standing up for their members unlike the lot here who allowed their bellies to be fluttered and the trains bar cork and belfast de-staffed.
 

BigCj34

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Could this mean parliamentary services for certain lines, or complete lifting of the tracks? More often that not, line closures in Britain and Ireland have been a bad thing in hindsight, and usually initiates a vicious circle. Fortunately in Britain proposing a complete line closure is political suicide, even though Ireland has had a greater percentage of its network reduced from its peak.
 

DT611

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Could this mean parliamentary services for certain lines, or complete lifting of the tracks? More often that not, line closures in Britain and Ireland have been a bad thing in hindsight, and usually initiates a vicious circle. Fortunately in Britain proposing a complete line closure is political suicide, even though Ireland has had a greater percentage of its network reduced from its peak.

Hard to know, but going on some of the last few closures, service suspension, weedsprayer and inspection car for a bit, line slowly rots until nothing can run over it, followed by it being left.
 

Groningen

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I think that Ireland will be the only country in the Western world never to have had electric locomotives. Or maybe in the past?!
 

J-2739

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I think that Ireland will be the only country in the Western world never to have had electric locomotives. Or maybe in the past?!

Portugal, maybe?

Does it seem like the Republic of Ireland has the most dying railways in Western Europe, if not one of the worlds?
 

J-2739

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Yeah, l think some were constructed and imported from the US.

I thought Portugal only has those Italian high speed trains :lol: (shame on me, as I'm currently there)

On topic, this could make Ireland have some of the smallest networks for its size.
 

BigCj34

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I can't help but think Ireland did miss a trick with the railways during the Celtic Tiger, especially when they've built all these motorways that allow transport at a faster speed than many trains. It also doesn't help that lax planning policy has made for bungalows and housing estates sprawling off roads without being well integrated into any of the existing settlements, necessitating the need for a car as well as the attitude of them being seen as a status symbol. Of course the latter is hardly unique to Ireland.

Still, if a Dublin Airport rail link does get built, that could be highly beneficial to getting people on the train even if it may be slower than by road.
 

MarcVD

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Électric locos not but electric traction yes. DART functions with EMUs.

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DT611

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I wonder what voltage one would use in Ireland. Would the 1500 DC Dart style be sufficient?


I don't think so. I think the reason it was originally chosen was due to the cost of the various substations verses the train carying the transformers with 25kv. I think if intercity electrification was to happen 25kv would be chosen though.
 

DT611

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Oh my! Can't believe it has gotten so bad. Would privitisation help?

No . Anyway not a chance will the government be stumping up the money for privatization and tbh i think i agree with them there. they most likely will stump up for the investment for the infrastructure that is required though. Considering they are spending a couple of billion on a by-pass of a town that's only a slight bottle-kneck once or twice a day if even that then it would be ridiculous not to do so. It's likely 1 or 2 lines will close, but they have been ran into oblivian for the past 40 years anyway just because "gsr" or some other reason only CIE understand.
 
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Con

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No . Anyway not a chance will the government be stumping up the money for privatization and tbh i think i agree with them there. they most likely will stump up for the investment for the infrastructure that is required though. Considering they are spending a couple of billion on a by-pass of a town that's only a slight bottle-kneck once or twice a day if even that then it would be ridiculous not to do so. It's likely 1 or 2 lines will close, but they have been ran into oblivian for the past 40 years anyway just because "gsr" or some other reason only CIE understand.

Closing the section from Rosslare to Waterford and claiming it was "only" south Co Wexford traffic affected was disingenuous in the extreme, when the South Tipperary section to Limerick Junction has lost custom as a result. Galway - Rosslare - Fishguard traffic was never allowed to develop and only Bus Éireann now provides a meaningful connection off the south Wales route.
 

BigCj34

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No . Anyway not a chance will the government be stumping up the money for privatization and tbh i think i agree with them there. they most likely will stump up for the investment for the infrastructure that is required though. Considering they are spending a couple of billion on a by-pass of a town that's only a slight bottle-kneck once or twice a day if even that then it would be ridiculous not to do so. It's likely 1 or 2 lines will close, but they have been ran into oblivian for the past 40 years anyway just because "gsr" or some other reason only CIE understand.

Does go to show that proponents of renationalisation in Britain should be careful for what they wish for. Not saying it would definitely be a bad thing, but it's not the magic cure the left-wing like to think it is.
 

DT611

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Closing the section from Rosslare to Waterford and claiming it was "only" south Co Wexford traffic affected was disingenuous in the extreme, when the South Tipperary section to Limerick Junction has lost custom as a result. Galway - Rosslare - Fishguard traffic was never allowed to develop and only Bus Éireann now provides a meaningful connection off the south Wales route.

Correct. Of course if you mentioned that on 2 other certain websites (maybe you know the ones i'm talking about) they're would be a queue of CIE defenders making excuses

Does go to show that proponents of renationalisation in Britain should be careful for what they wish for. Not saying it would definitely be a bad thing, but it's not the magic cure the left-wing like to think it is.

True, but I don't think nationalisation in itself is the problem personally, but the government's mentality when it comes to it. privatization hasn't been a cure either though, some issues have been sorted out and some things made better but other things have been made worse. They're is no perfect railway i don't think. In saying that, privatization (eventually) got the investment taps turned on and made the government realise and see that the railway is a piece of infrastructure and it must be invested in and paid for, which you can be thankful for. I would certainly suggest for the uk that the don't rock the boat approach is the best way now. Even with the problems privatization did bring
 

Bletchleyite

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Ireland strikes me as somewhere that, like Wales, has a fairly bitty rail network with significant gaps, and would work better if a network of coaches/buses was designed in conjunction with it with a unified timetable and ticketing system, avoiding duplication and competition, and pitting the whole of public transport against the car.
 

edwin_m

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Ireland strikes me as somewhere that, like Wales, has a fairly bitty rail network with significant gaps, and would work better if a network of coaches/buses was designed in conjunction with it with a unified timetable and ticketing system, avoiding duplication and competition, and pitting the whole of public transport against the car.

Especially as there is already a national network of coaches/buses run by a different arm of the same state agency! I don't think there is much if any timetable or fare integration at present.

Seriously though, Ireland has a population density of 68 per km2. This compares with 413 in England, 149 in Wales, and 68 in Scotland. Some continental comparators are 118 in France and 92 in Spain. Rail is a mode of transport most suited to moving large numbers so is always going to start at a disadvantage in a less densely populated area. This is exacerbated by the population density being much higher in Dublin and surrounding counties, encouraging regional services in this part of Ireland but making it inherently difficult to justify longer-distance rail links.

Having said that, Scotland north of the central belt does seem to have a much better train service than Ireland away from the Dublin area.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ireland strikes me as somewhere that, like Wales, has a fairly bitty rail network with significant gaps, and would work better if a network of coaches/buses was designed in conjunction with it with a unified timetable and ticketing system, avoiding duplication and competition, and pitting the whole of public transport against the car.

Especially as there is already a national network of coaches/buses run by a different arm of the same state agency! I don't think there is much if any timetable or fare integration at present.

Seriously though, Ireland has a population density of 68 per km2. This compares with 413 in England, 149 in Wales, and 68 in Scotland. Some continental comparators are 118 in France and 92 in Spain. Rail is a mode of transport most suited to moving large numbers so is always going to start at a disadvantage in a less densely populated area. This is exacerbated by the population density being much higher in Dublin and surrounding counties, encouraging regional services in this part of Ireland but making it inherently difficult to justify longer-distance rail links.
 
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Groningen

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All the major cities in Ireland are near the coast.

I know that Portugal had al least 1600/1800 Dutch style locomotives from France. They are in Portugal class 2600.
 

hurricanemk1c

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Electrification and 125mph running is planned for the Belfast line by 2040 and the rest of Northern Ireland by 2050 [talk at Engineers Ireland, presented by Mal McGreevy, CEO of Translink at the time]. The IÉ presentation at the same talk had nothing on electrification. The voltage was never asked, but presumed 25kV
 

DT611

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Electrification and 125mph running is planned for the Belfast line by 2040 and the rest of Northern Ireland by 2050 [talk at Engineers Ireland, presented by Mal McGreevy, CEO of Translink at the time]. The IÉ presentation at the same talk had nothing on electrification. The voltage was never asked, but presumed 25kV

Whatever about the part in the north, the southern bit will never happen, you heard it here first.
 

BigCj34

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To have a partially electrified Dublin - Belfast route sounds bonkers, but who knows. For travel between the two biggest cities on the island of Ireland the current state of affairs os not acceptable, even if logistically things may be a bit more complicated when crossing borders.
 

DT611

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To have a partially electrified Dublin - Belfast route sounds bonkers, but who knows. For travel between the two biggest cities on the island of Ireland the current state of affairs os not acceptable, even if logistically things may be a bit more complicated when crossing borders.

Oh i absolutely agree. Partly doing it would be indeed nuts, but being from the south of ireland i can tell you that when it comes to public transport the country still really hasn't grown up from the 1960s mindset. The dart being implement was a stroke of luck as they're was someone in charge of the country who did see the benefits it would bring.
 
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