Is being a train driver all it's cracked up to be?

[Minilad]

seems to be rather reluctant to answer that question ....

so far we have one person who states they are a driver who says that the spare shifts are there to cover unplanned / short notice staff shortages even if the staff are pinched for other things and minilad claiming that both that person and myself are wrong ...

No. I didn't say you was wrong. I said you was only partly right and there are many other uses for a spare.
Baring in mind daily alteration sheets which allocate work are posted 72 hours in advance should suggest they are not used for short notice stuff but rather the general day to day things.
On the day any remaining spares are used for pretty much anything. And are not restricted to covering sickness at all.

 

[ComUtoR]

No. I didn't say you was wrong. I said you was only partly right and there are many other uses for a spare.

Tom and dk1 have it correct (me too)

The is another turn which is used on a daily basis to cover the last minute stuff. That one is literally a booked turn to do nothing but sit and wait. Ours is called 'cover' some are 'as required' 'service recovery turn' 'as ordered' etc etc.

'Spare' is very much rostering flexibility to cover anything long term or cover the business requirements of the day to day running of depots. 'Cover' is for **** happens stuff.

 

[Minilad]

Tom and dk1 have it correct (me too)

The is another turn which is used on a daily basis to cover the last minute stuff. That one is literally a booked turn to do nothing but sit and wait. Ours is called 'cover' some are 'as required' 'service recovery turn' 'as ordered' etc etc.

'Spare' is very much rostering flexibility to cover anything long term or cover the business requirements of the day to day running of depots. 'Cover' is for **** happens stuff.

This is one of the problems here. Different companies have different terms for essentially the same thing.
We have booked spare in the link. This is a booked day of spare on which you can be moved to cover open jobs. If you are not given a job then you are daily spare which you call cover. We also have standby where you might have a few hours at the beginning or end of a job where you are effectively "spare"
Booked spare will be notified of your job at least 72 hours before on the daily alteration sheets. So isn't really for last minute stuff. Any last minute would be taken up by daily spare or even bringing someone in on a rest day.
My point was that being daily spare or "cover" you don't just cover last minute sickness you are there to do anything and everything as required.

 

[ComUtoR]

This is one of the problems here. Different companies have different terms for essentially the same thing.
We have booked spare in the link. This is a booked day of spare on which you can be moved to cover open jobs. If you are not given a job then you are daily spare which you call cover.

If your not booked a job from spare then your spare, just sitting in the crew room. Our 'Cover' is totally separate and is booked specifically to sit about for anything and everything that goes wrong.

Out of interest how much is your spare movement ? Ours is +/- 3 hours from booked. Must have at least 16hrs notice of any movement. You can be moved off shift more than +/- 3 but that has other caveats.

But yeah. Same smell, different rose.

 

[Minilad]

If your not booked a job from spare then your spare, just sitting in the crew room. Our 'Cover' is totally separate and is booked specifically to sit about for anything and everything that goes wrong.

Out of interest how much is your spare movement ? Ours is +/- 3 hours from booked. Must have at least 16hrs notice of any movement. You can be moved off shift more than +/- 3 but that has other caveats.

But yeah. Same smell, different rose.

See we don't have any differential at all. You have a certain amount of spare days in the link. We just have spares. We don't have "cover" jobs as such. If you are spare you can either get given a job on the daily sheets or you will come in and sit spare and be the resource controllers bitch!
We don't have any limit on movement but obviously with hidden it is rare to be moved more than a few hours either way. The allocation of work off spare is strictly controlled and you must be given the closet open job to your booking on time. So in effect it's unusual to be moved around that much.
We have to have 48 hours notice but in effect its 72 as the daily sheets are posted 3 days before.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Certainly at our place, "spare" turns are used to cover longer-term things such as annual leave, safety briefs, vacant lines, longer term sickness and, staff released for other things. They won't pay overtime to cover a spare turn - if something needs covering, they'll use overtime or whatever to cover that directly.

"Service recovery" turns are used to cover stuff that goes wrong on the day - short notice sickness, traincrew displaced by disruption etc.. Subtly different.

so the 'spare' is a float / relief to cover the planned / semi planned absence

and 'service recovery' covers the emergency / short notice

I'm still not sure why it's such an important issue in this discussion though?

the need to have both 'spare' and 'service recovery' staff was questioned

the reality is any workplace shouldn;t have a staffing model that means they only have a relationship with enough staff to cover a normal day's work ...
the employer knows how many hours of annual leave ( with wriggle room) they have to give in each week , they also know roughly how many hours they want to give for training / briefs etc that take people away from the 'shop floor' whether this is on a weekly / monthly/ quarter / full year basis ...
they have a good idea of how much facility time is needed - as the meetings and training stuff is pre -planned and the actual nitty gritty of rep work should be reasonably predictable

employers know roughly what their sick % figure should be / what they are aiming for and can work that into the cover - and as you said once it;s apparent someoen is going to be offfor a period of time or 'long term' you can cover their rota / line witha temporary postign into that line...

short notice unavilability is the un preduictable thing and sometimes this will meand one of two things

1. staff rotaed to cover this unpredictable absence / service recovery etc will sit on their bum in the messroom / control room for most / all the shift

or

2. services will go uncovered as they are un staffed and /or recovery from disruption will take longer as there are no extra staff and trains to fill gaps where trains and/or staff are i nthe wrogn place / out of drivign hours etc etc ...

it's somethign which is not unique to the railway and in some organisatiosn there are complex models of how to use extra hours for 'service recovery ' / major incident issues ( including who not to call as not to dig a bigger hole in 12-18 - 24 hours time )

 

[Wallicio]

I do enjoy the peace and quiet of driving and sometimes hate the intrusion of a route learner!

Does it not depend on the route learner or is it just the generalisation of having someone sit in your cab watching what your doing?

 

[G136GREYHOUND]

Mintina, if you are not happy, there is only one person who can change that - you!

I appreciate that that may sound harsh, but I, like many police officers got jaded as a cop, so after 14 years, I looked at alternatives after believing that I could not do anything also, and I am due to be a train driver.........tests passed, recruitment complete, just waiting on a start date.

If you badly need to change, you will find something, but I suspect, as with cops, money/salary may be the issue!

You're DUE to be a train driver ? If that's the case, come back in 3 years and tell us how wonderful it is then !

 

[G136GREYHOUND]

so the 'spare' is a float / relief to cover the planned / semi planned absence

and 'service recovery' covers the emergency / short notice



the need to have both 'spare' and 'service recovery' staff was questioned

the reality is any workplace shouldn;t have a staffing model that means they only have a relationship with enough staff to cover a normal day's work ...
the employer knows how many hours of annual leave ( with wriggle room) they have to give in each week , they also know roughly how many hours they want to give for training / briefs etc that take people away from the 'shop floor' whether this is on a weekly / monthly/ quarter / full year basis ...
they have a good idea of how much facility time is needed - as the meetings and training stuff is pre -planned and the actual nitty gritty of rep work should be reasonably predictable

employers know roughly what their sick % figure should be / what they are aiming for and can work that into the cover - and as you said once it;s apparent someoen is going to be offfor a period of time or 'long term' you can cover their rota / line witha temporary postign into that line...

short notice unavilability is the un preduictable thing and sometimes this will meand one of two things

1. staff rotaed to cover this unpredictable absence / service recovery etc will sit on their bum in the messroom / control room for most / all the shift

or

2. services will go uncovered as they are un staffed and /or recovery from disruption will take longer as there are no extra staff and trains to fill gaps where trains and/or staff are i nthe wrogn place / out of drivign hours etc etc ...

it's somethign which is not unique to the railway and in some organisatiosn there are complex models of how to use extra hours for 'service recovery ' / major incident issues ( including who not to call as not to dig a bigger hole in 12-18 - 24 hours time )

Spare ? the 3 times I was spare this year, I had more trains to drive than one the normally rammed diagrams

 

[maccalad]

Sound so like someone else needs a change!

 

[Johncleesefan]

There are lots of sour grapes on here. A job is generally as good as you make it. I am still new to it so maybe that's it but if you do be grudge going to work then do something else. I always find the complainers have no sense of how hard life is in other industries. I still consider myself lucky having my job even with all the cr@p that has gone on this year, ie break downs etc

 

[LETHLFH]

I joined the railway world mid 2015 I have since progressed once and start my driving course in January 2017. Prior to this I worked in 2 different call centres over around 4 years. The 2 jobs I've held on the railway have been an absolute delight in comparison to the call centres, I'm hoping driving is the best of the lot as I have built it up a lot in my mind.

 

[G136GREYHOUND]

There are lots of sour grapes on here. A job is generally as good as you make it. I am still new to it so maybe that's it but if you do be grudge going to work then do something else. I always find the complainers have no sense of how hard life is in other industries. I still consider myself lucky having my job even with all the cr@p that has gone on this year, ie break downs etc

And therein is the rub, many posters in this thread are pretty new to it, or about to do it, when it's gone downhill as much as it will over the next 20 years as it has over the last 20 years, we'll discuss it again in 2036.

It's not the worst job in the world, but don't pretend it's ANYWHERE near the best either, some need to loose the rose tinted approved spectacles and accept that one day you, too may be trapped by age, wage and skillset in a job in which you often feel you live to work, rather than work to live.

at least this thread asks a very sensible question as opposed to the gushing " dream job " risibility, which is why I felt I'd crawl out of the woodwork and post

 

[Johncleesefan]

I do agree that you earn your money In the job. Its not a glamorous life in or out of work and sure there are lots of cons and there are times I'm there thinking "ooh really?" to a job I've got. But compared to any other job I had, then I stand by my other colleagues who say this beats working for a living

 

[Jackson99]

Before becoming a train driver I hated my job. Best decision I made joining the railway. Yes it has its negatives like every job, but for me the positives outweigh them

 

[ewsdbs]

Driving trains (freight) is a cracking job. Going over the Settle - Carlisle on a nice frosty morning is just amazing. The money is excellent too.

The down side now - profit hunting companies with ever shrinking decent terms and conditions of employment. I'm leaving soon, after 26 years on the foot plate. Early retirement forced upon me by DB Cargo.

Good luck to anyone who is lucky enough to become a driver. Savour it and always remember that driving trains is better than working for a living.

 

[fowler9]

I think what some drivers have to remember is that when people say that they would love to be a train driver it isn't because they think it is easy. It is just because for them they feel the pluses outweigh the negatives. It must be easy to become jaded when you have commuters in parts of the country moaning about how much train drivers get paid when it is an easy job (Allegedly). Driving a train comes with a lot of skill, knowledge and responsibility. The fact that other people feel their job doesn't pay enough is no argument to insist that other people get paid less.

People have their views of various jobs coloured by the press who will print whatever they want to sell papers etc. The guys and gals who drive the trains have a very tough job. Unsociable hours, being able to drive the train almost blindfolded etc. etc. They shouldn't knock people who want to do it though. As much as some current drivers knock people who want to do the job I doubt there is anyone in the world who actually dreams of doing my job apart from the obvious who are just desperate for a job.

At the end of the day if you hate driving trains quit and I'll let you know when our call centre is taking on.

 

[Tom9748]

.....

 

[321446]

And therein is the rub, many posters in this thread are pretty new to it, or about to do it, when it's gone downhill as much as it will over the next 20 years as it has over the last 20 years, we'll discuss it again in 2036.

It's not the worst job in the world, but don't pretend it's ANYWHERE near the best either, some need to loose the rose tinted approved spectacles and accept that one day you, too may be trapped by age, wage and skillset in a job in which you often feel you live to work, rather than work to live.

at least this thread asks a very sensible question as opposed to the gushing " dream job " risibility, which is why I felt I'd crawl out of the woodwork and post

This is not aimed directly at you Greyhound but at the issues you raise.

At what point does my 9 years on the railway and still enjoying the job immensely mean I can get rid of the rose tinted glasses then? 15 years? 20 years? I hear that comment in the Mess Room every week. EVERY WEEK. But I have as much right to say that it is still the best job in the world For Me. Not you. I'm not talking about your feelings about the job, I'm talking about mine.

Sorry, but in my previous life I worked with people who were just the same about a job I loved but ended up leaving for the railway because I didn't want to do that job any more. So it's not just the railway. But to hear constantly "huh, you'll learn/change/lose the rose tinted glasses when you've done as many years as I've done" really annoys me as it sounds like my opinion, and that's what it is, doesn't matter simply because I haven't "put the years in". Which, forgive me is complete and utter rubbish. But and here's the rub, I'll willingly go on hearing people say it because I've set my heart on never turning into one of "Those People". Aaaaaaaand relax.

 

[W230]

At what point does my 9 years on the railway and still enjoying the job immensely mean I can get rid of the rose tinted glasses then? 15 years? 20 years? I hear that comment in the Mess Room every week. EVERY WEEK. But I have as much right to say that it is still the best job in the world For Me. Not you. I'm not talking about your feelings about the job, I'm talking about mine.

Spot on.