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Is Heathrow Express a good use of resources?

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The Ham

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Yes I can't see HEX surviving after crossrail.

Everyone I know that takes HEX gets a taxi at paddington. Even if you're not cost sensitive you might as well beat the brutal central london traffic and almost certainly be closer to your destination.

Assuming there is good branding at LHR for crossrail so people know it exists...

It is likely to need to change its business model, but I wouldn't be surprised if it kept going for sometime after Crossrail opened.

As I've said before, the paths are useful for trains approaching Heathrow from the West, in that the western services effectively use the same paths as the eastern ones. As such the services aren't a waste of paths (even if it you looked at them in isolation and ignored the future link it could like that now).
 
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coppercapped

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How long does a taxi take from Paddington to central London versus Crossrail to somewhere more central and a taxi from there?
How long is a piece of string? It depends where you want to get to, and at what time of the day.

Paddington's big advantage is that it has a taxi rank. Tottenham Court Road station has one near the Dominion Theatre but you have to find your way to it over the road. I'm not sure whether Bond Street and Farringdon have taxi ranks near the station entrances so you might have to hail a cruising cab. Anyway for anywhere near Bond Street you might as well take a taxi from Paddington.
Liverpool Street has a taxi rank.

The point is that one has to know the geography of London in order to make the decision whether to take a taxi from Paddington or get closer in and take a taxi from there. Whether you would want to do that with luggage, not knowing how the system worked and when one is tired after 10 hours in a plane and all you really want to do is get to the hotel would be up to the individual traveller. Some might, if they've done the journey before, many won't.
 

itznonbine

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Crossrail = Heathrow Connect
Heathrow Express will still live on because its extremely fast and the fact is that someone may go from HX to Crossrail.
I see anyone mention the E/L phrase i will down bleach.
 

matt_world2004

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You might see fare parity with crossrail on the heathrow express . that is one way they can solve the awkward oyster situation and a way of tfl mitigating the fare freeze.
 

Mintona

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I can’t see a situation where I’d ever board a Crossrail train to Heathrow rather than a Heathrow Express to be honest.
 

cle

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I wonder how OOC will affect it and pathing on the fasts, given that all GW services are due to call there.

I think it is due to have a pair of islands, but Reading-style, with staggered ingress/egress - rather than as stopping and a loop. Then again, certain services will soon skip Reading, so who knows.

I use it a lot, I like it and see the need and demand. It is well-used and I'm sure lucrative. Preserving the 2tph fast to Slough is also commendable. But equally, in the future, it will be seen as too niche, there is so much growth and development along that corridor - and there will be the opinion that it should do more. Perhaps that is Staines, or OOC connections (without stopping Crossrail there?) - or the western WRATH/whatever services...

Whatever happened to talk of the Brentford - Southall branch reinstatement?
 

ModernRailways

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Crossrail = Heathrow Connect
Heathrow Express will still live on because its extremely fast and the fact is that someone may go from HX to Crossrail.
I see anyone mention the E/L phrase i will down bleach.

I think this is a good point. If Crossrail is to cost extra to Heathrow I can totally see HEX being fine and continuing as the first class option.

Cost will be the factor and if Crossrail adds an extra Airport fee of £4 or so then people will pay for the HEX. £15 HEX vs £8-10 Crossrail. A lot of people will pay for the HEX.

If I’ve just had a 8-12 hour transatlantic flight I’d go with HEX, quieter, better ambience, and overall it’s not as much of a commuter - can we squeeze 1 more person in - train.
 

FQTV

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For the last few years at least, Heathrow Express has been conducting research on how its existing customers might change their behaviour when Crossrail comes.

It's obviously tracking research, as the questionnaires generally ask similar questions each time, but as more information has been published about Crossrail services, presumably they are able to monitor any associated changes in customer perception.

The questionnaires present scenarios and ask respondents to rate their likelihood of choosing different options, including the Tube.

It gets down to asking things like potential pricing comparisons, whether you start or end your journey from home or work, whether your journey might start or in the core and whether you might have luggage, or whether you generally travel hand-luggage only for journeys commencing in the core, in which case how would the lack of dedicated luggage space and the potential for no seats affect you.

It has even asked how much work you do in the last hours before you make a journey by air, presumably again looking at the difference between on board environments and their suitability for laptops.

Separately, Heathrow Express does currently offer concessions to Heathrow and airline employees, including cabin and flight crew, so it's perhaps worth mentioning that a proportion of passengers are not travelling at a public fare.
 

Gagravarr

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For those who don't follow London Reconnections closely, and relevant to this thread, there's apparently issues with getting the new Crossrail 345 trains to play nicely with the signalling to Heathrow. So, the Elizabeth line might not be (fully / no-change-required) delivering the speedy journeys to central London that might empty out peak HEX services.... http://www.londonreconnections.com/2018/crossrail-cutting-fine/
 

gsnedders

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To me, what makes sense is having track access charges that actually scale with demand for track access; it makes no sense in a commercial environment to have Heathrow Airport Holdings pay comparable access charges today compared with twenty years ago: there is much, much more demand on the eastern end of the GWML.
 

frodshamfella

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Why should you be ripped off with high fares just because you land at an airport and want to use a fast train to the centre ? I don't know where else this happens in the world !
 

swt_passenger

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You might see fare parity with crossrail on the heathrow express . that is one way they can solve the awkward oyster situation and a way of tfl mitigating the fare freeze.
You might not. Oyster PAYG can charge a Gatwick premium by having dedicated gates at Victoria only. HEx Oyster premium charging could similarly be based on using specific gates at Paddington only.
 

Doctor Fegg

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For those who don't follow London Reconnections closely, and relevant to this thread, there's apparently issues with getting the new Crossrail 345 trains to play nicely with the signalling to Heathrow. So, the Elizabeth line might not be (fully / no-change-required) delivering the speedy journeys to central London that might empty out peak HEX services.... http://www.londonreconnections.com/2018/crossrail-cutting-fine/

There's an interesting hint dropped in that article...

But at present, it is not known whether the signalling issues at Heathrow can be resolved, at least as long as the current Heathrow Express trains are still running.

(my emphasis)
 

Mintona

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Why should you be ripped off with high fares just because you land at an airport and want to use a fast train to the centre ? I don't know where else this happens in the world !

Umm, pretty much everywhere. To cite 2 recent experiences of mine, both Vienna and Oslo have ‘fast’ trains to the city that charge a premium.
 

coppercapped

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Why should you be ripped off with high fares just because you land at an airport and want to use a fast train to the centre ? I don't know where else this happens in the world !
Gardermoen to Oslo S:
NSB 93 NOK, 30 mins
Flytoget 190 NOK, 20 mins.

How many airports with rail connections have you been to?
 

fowler9

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Why should you be ripped off with high fares just because you land at an airport and want to use a fast train to the centre ? I don't know where else this happens in the world !
Not all necessarily by train but off the top of my head Hong Kong, Melbourne, Brisbane, Auckland, Santiago, Buenos Aires, Krakow. I could name more. When I say not just by train I mean airports with a premium express bus service. I have saved a small fortune avoiding them over the years. The most fun was Auckland. Instead of paying a fortune for what was a regular bus with more luggage space me and the ex got a loco hauled train from the Britomart centre to Papatoetoe which in parts was a really nice journey. Then we got a regular bus from there to the airport. Saved about £10 each on that which we spent on food and beer the night before.
 

Clip

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Why should you be ripped off with high fares just because you land at an airport and want to use a fast train to the centre ? I don't know where else this happens in the world !

'High fares' are a concept if you cant afford them surely otherwise its just a 'fare'?

'Ripped off' is also the same sort of thing - am I being ripped off if I get somewhere faster because I value my time and am prepared to pay for that which is my choice?

It really does happen all over the world too as other have said so should I feel ripped off because of your fake news
 

InFoTan

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A single ticket from Hong Kong Airport - Central on the Airport Express is HK$115 and the same distance on a regular MTR service costs about HK$25.
 

Mutant Lemming

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Heathrow has always had the label of the "expensive" (sorry, "premium") airport but it is nothing special really. I have never known anybody to use it unless they have to, such as if they are flying to America or Australia. I suppose it is useful for lazy people living in WEST London who want to have a lie in before their flight and then casually catch the express or underground to the airport feeling well rested.
.
Have corrected that for you - out of the four "London" airports Heathrow is the most awkward for many in North, East and South London to get to.
 

HSTEd

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What is the advantage of HEX of just running four additional Crossrail trains an hour non stop between Paddington and the Airport?
 

306024

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A single ticket from Hong Kong Airport - Central on the Airport Express is HK$115 and the same distance on a regular MTR service costs about HK$25.

Even less by bus and the views are better.

Arlanda Airport in Stockholm also has a rather pricey airport express rail service.
 

Mutant Lemming

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Arlanda Airport in Stockholm also has a rather pricey airport express rail service.

They do have a 'Travel time guarantee' though

Traveltime guarantee
In the unlikely event that an Arlanda Express train should be more than five minutes late, regardless the reason, you can receive a new ticket according to our traveltime guarantee. It doesn't matter whether the delay was caused by us or someone else.
 

matt_world2004

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They do have a 'Travel time guarantee' though

Traveltime guarantee
In the unlikely event that an Arlanda Express train should be more than five minutes late, regardless the reason, you can receive a new ticket according to our traveltime guarantee. It doesn't matter whether the delay was caused by us or someone else.
Pretty empty promise given most airport users would not be a regular traveller on the service.
 

Shaw S Hunter

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Not all necessarily by train but off the top of my head Hong Kong, Melbourne, Brisbane, Auckland, Santiago, Buenos Aires, Krakow. I could name more. When I say not just by train I mean airports with a premium express bus service. I have saved a small fortune avoiding them over the years. The most fun was Auckland. Instead of paying a fortune for what was a regular bus with more luggage space me and the ex got a loco hauled train from the Britomart centre to Papatoetoe which in parts was a really nice journey. Then we got a regular bus from there to the airport. Saved about £10 each on that which we spent on food and beer the night before.

And it can apply to ordinary road traffic too. To travel by car from Melbourne out to the airport if you use the direct motorway it has an automated toll in place backed up by ANPR cameras to pick-up non-payers: I believe you have 24 hours grace to pay later if not in posession of the automated facility. Avoiding the toll entails using local roads within the urban core although the motorway is toll-free nearer to the airport itself.
 

class387

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Umm, pretty much everywhere. To cite 2 recent experiences of mine, both Vienna and Oslo have ‘fast’ trains to the city that charge a premium.
However from Vienna the first train will always arrive first as it's a two track railway. There is also the Railjet which is as quick as the CAT but at S-Bahn fare.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Thee used to be the JFK Express on the NY Subway - a non graff daubed set , packed with New York transit police (OK - 1 or 2 , but it was only a single unit) - with I think a $5 surcharge - made people "think transit" when riding the normal services through East NY was a bit challenging to say the least , in keeping your possessions and money intact.

Did not do well , loading wise - however in today's NYC , you have no worries by and large - in using the normal subway - in my experience anyway - and yes - I was there in the crack ridden and graff covered 1980's.
 

InFoTan

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Even less by bus and the views are better.
Unfortunately there have been some cases (sorry) of luggage being stolen from the airport buses when passengers are on the upper deck enjoying the good views.

As a visitor I have used the Heathrow Express to get to Central London, and I used to think that the Piccadilly line was ridiculously slow. However, after I tried it, I discovered that it really isn't (allowing for waiting time and interchanges) and it's a great deal cheaper (especially if you can avoid Zone 1).

Personally, l can't see the Heathrow Express surviving for too long once people are fully aware of the services on the Elizabeth Line - with the Piccadilly line remaining as the cheaper option.
 

coppercapped

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Unfortunately there have been some cases (sorry) of luggage being stolen from the airport buses when passengers are on the upper deck enjoying the good views.

As a visitor I have used the Heathrow Express to get to Central London, and I used to think that the Piccadilly line was ridiculously slow. However, after I tried it, I discovered that it really isn't (allowing for waiting time and interchanges) and it's a great deal cheaper (especially if you can avoid Zone 1).

Personally, l can't see the Heathrow Express surviving for too long once people are fully aware of the services on the Elizabeth Line - with the Piccadilly line remaining as the cheaper option.
I'm sorry, I don't follow the logic.

Zone 1 is Central London. The Piccadilly Line enters Zone 1 at Earls Court...
 

zn1

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its overpriced for what it is...id rather use the piccadilly, in a choice between HEX and the underground..id use the tube..
 
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