Is it about time rail timetables returned to normal?

[Bald Rick]

I’m not saying that you are wrong, but I’m struggling to see how both your post and the one below can both be correct:

One of them isn’t!

 

[sjpowermac]

One of them isn’t!

I can easily see that with so many temporary timetables planning teams must have been really stretched, particularly at the smaller and less well resourced TOCs.

Thank you again for the info regarding May 2022, appreciated.

@Watershed are you sure of your information about the May 2022 timetable?

 

[Watershed]

I can easily see that with so many temporary timetables planning teams must have been really stretched, particularly at the smaller and less well resourced TOCs.

Thank you again for the info regarding May 2022, appreciated.

@Watershed are you sure of your information about the May 2022 timetable?

Well, perhaps the situation has changed since I last checked. But I am aware of numerous operators who intend on operating fewer services than were originally published.

As I say, you need only take the recent reductions (ostensibly done in connection with Omicron) to see how drastically and quickly these things can change.

 

[Snow1964]

Well, perhaps the situation has changed since I last checked. But I am aware of numerous operators who intend on operating fewer services than were originally published.

As I say, you need only take the recent reductions (ostensibly done in connection with Omicron) to see how drastically and quickly these things can change.

The intend to (future tense) shows the problem, average Covid infection rates are now back to about 45,000 per day. Almost same rates as whole of September and October last year (before anyone had heard of Omicron)

So (in theory) if Covid is going to be used to justify service levels, then current timetable should be about same level as last Sept and Oct.

If service is still reduced (compared to last Autumn) then something non-Covid is also at play, but I’m not really seeing non-Covid reasons being announced on timetable updates and press releases. The public are being treated like gullible morons by some blaming omicron even though the extra infections have finished.

 

[Bald Rick]

The public are being treated like gullible morons by some blaming omicron even though the extra infections have finished.

the extra ‘new’ infections are back to (nearly) last autumn levels. But that doesn’t mean that all those people infected 2-4 weeks ago are back at work…

 

[sjpowermac]

Well, perhaps the situation has changed since I last checked. But I am aware of numerous operators who intend on operating fewer services than were originally published.

As I say, you need only take the recent reductions (ostensibly done in connection with Omicron) to see how drastically and quickly these things can change.

Oh absolutely regarding the recent reductions due to Omicron. At some TOCs the timetable was falling apart quite dramatically and continues to do so with quite a number of ‘pre-planned’ cancellations in addition to the already reduced timetable.

 

[nedchester]

Maybe after today's announcement we should have the full pre-Covid timetable by April 1st

 

[Bald Rick]

Maybe after today's announcement we should have the full pre-Covid timetable by April 1st

that would be a good date

 

[ChrisC]

Maybe after today's announcement we should have the full pre-Covid timetable by April 1st

It would be good if this happened but the fact is it is not going to happen anytime soon on some routes.
There has been lots of discussion in various threads about Northern, EMR, XC and others who cut services and reduced timetables, and these still have not been restored. It is now quite clear that some of these are not returning with the May timetable change, perhaps not even later this year, May 2023 or ever.

 

[nedchester]

It would be good if this happened but the fact is it is not going to happen anytime soon on some routes.
There has been lots of discussion in various threads about Northern, EMR, XC and others who cut services and reduced timetables, and these still have not been restored. It is now quite clear that some of these are not returning with the May timetable change, perhaps not even later this year, May 2023 or ever.

I’d agree that it’s not going to happen but it seems to me that the railway in some places is making little effort to attract passengers. The leisure market is certainly bouncing back nicely even if the commuter market isn’t.

 

[dk1]

I’d agree that it’s not going to happen but it seems to me that the railway in some places is making little effort to attract passengers. The leisure market is certainly bouncing back nicely even if the commuter market isn’t.

Commuter market appears to be seeing some stronger growth on some routes/operators than others.

 

[Mag_seven]

Commuter market appears to be seeing some stronger growth on some routes/operators than others.

I was at Stratford a few mins ago - eastbound GA and TfL services rammed.

 

[dk1]

I was at Stratford a few mins ago - eastbound GA and TfL services rammed.

Been some dreadful crowding & not just short formed services. Really needs ramping up a gear.

 

[KevinTurvey]

Yes, its now time to bring back most of the missing trains.
Witnessed some quite severe overcrowding on local services out of Liverpool Lime St recently, many stations still only having an hourly service.

Also current Merseyrail service of 20 minutes not sufficient at busy times of day, needs to go back to 15 minutes on most lines.

 

[nw1]

I'm surprised how poor some of the current offerings are. Prompted by another thread, it appears that Southern still haven't restored the Brighton-Portsmouth service, let alone Brighton-Southampton.

So there is no regular direct service from either Brighton or Hove to even Havant.

Is there really any justification now for not running services which could be considered core? There has always been a Hove-Havant semi-fast service, at least, as far back as I can remember - and probably a lot longer.

People are, from what I can make out, no longer afraid of Covid so presumably no longer afraid of public transport. Certainly buses now seem to be back to pre-Covid levels of patronage. While I can understand reluctance to bring back peak extras (for now), one would think that they could bring back something approaching the off-peak base pattern on core trunk routes such as the two mentioned above - these are not esoteric services only serving small rural towns.

 

[MikeWM]

My evening could have been somewhat complicated by the fact nothing at all now leaves Bournemouth eastbound after 2212 on weekdays, which seems ludicrously early. Fortunately I noticed in time to make other plans.

I'm not too familiar with the usual service patterns around here, but I see from some past NRTs that pre-Covid there was a service at 2312 at least as far as Southampton, which seems rather more reasonable.

 

[nw1]

My evening could have been somewhat complicated by the fact nothing at all now leaves Bournemouth eastbound after 2212 on weekdays, which seems ludicrously early. Fortunately I noticed in time to make other plans.

I'm not too familiar with the usual service patterns around here, but I see from some past NRTs that pre-Covid there was a service at 2312 at least as far as Southampton, which seems rather more reasonable.

Yes, there always was a 2300 or so, destination Eastleigh I think.

Essentially it means a night out in Bournemouth by train is not currently an option. I would hope that would change for the summer.

 

[Bald Rick]

Essentially it means a night out in Bournemouth by train is not currently an option. I would hope that would change for the summer.

It certainly is an option; you just need to leave earlier or come back by a different mode.

 

[Watershed]

It certainly is an option; you just need to leave earlier or come back by a different mode.

And it's also possible to walk from London to Edinburgh, it just takes a bit longer than the train

In all seriousness, this is exactly the kind of cutback that we should come to expect on today's railway, run by a DfT which knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

 

[Bald Rick]

And it's also possible to walk from London to Edinburgh, it just takes a bit longer than the train

In all seriousness, this is exactly the kind of cutback that we should come to expect on today's railway, run by a DfT which knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Oh they know the value all right.

 

[Bessie]

The SWR MD has said their services are back at around 60% with some commuter services still around 50%. Context was a video she's done with the local Surrey MP Jeremy Hunt. For some of these lines it seems like chicken and egg. Passengers won't return if their service is now one train per hour so the TOC will then say demand isn't there.

 

[jamesst]

Also current Merseyrail service of 20 minutes not sufficient at busy times of day, needs to go back to 15 minutes on most lines.

Due to happen from April 11th

 

[Tracked]

I was in Mexborough yesterday, got there from Doncaster at 10:46 and the first train back at that point was 13:32 (as the 12:32 was cancelled), would've been quicker to walk! They used to have 2 an hour each way, now it's an hour and then two hours between trains.

Having looked at RTT for yesterday I see a lot of trains were cancelled, and by getting the 18:32 I was actually catching the first train back to Doncaster since I'd arrived at 10:46!

 

[yorksrob]

The pandemic is dead and buried. They need to get on with running the normal timetable, certainly here in the North.

 

[Philip]

The pandemic is dead and buried. They need to get on with running the normal timetable, certainly here in the North.

There have been possibly permanent changes in some people's commuting and travelling arrangements as a result of the pandemic, so timetables need to reflect this on some lines.

 

[philosopher]

There have been possibly permanent changes in some people's commuting and travelling arrangements as a result of the pandemic, so timetables need to reflect this on some lines.

I can understand the reduction of peak time services due to changed commuting behaviour. It is the reduction of off-peak services which to me make less sense, yes in the short term they may save money, however if overcrowded trains and fewer services drive passengers off the railways, will it even actually save much or any money long term.

 

[bramling]

There have been possibly permanent changes in some people's commuting and travelling arrangements as a result of the pandemic, so timetables need to reflect this on some lines.

I feel this is all part of the “can’t let go of Covid” mentality.

Time to move on now, and part of that is restoring the former timetables across the board. Shame some fleets have been scrapped.

 

[Peter0124]

I can understand the reduction of peak time services due to changed commuting behaviour. It is the reduction of off-peak services which to me make less sense, yes in the short term they may save money, however if overcrowded trains and fewer services drive passengers off the railways, will it even actually save much or any money long term.

Especially Saturdays. It feels like the new peak.

 

[Philip]

I feel this is all part of the “can’t let go of Covid” mentality.

Time to move on now, and part of that is restoring the former timetables across the board. Shame some fleets have been scrapped.

Not much point in restoring them to how they were if they don't reflect the changes to peak travelling times. The resources of those extra services which used to run in the morning peak on weekdays could do with being switched to extra services at the weekend, for example.

 

[Bantamzen]

The pandemic is dead and buried. They need to get on with running the normal timetable, certainly here in the North.

Meanwhile in Yorkshire Northern are busily preparing to cut back services "because Covid", just in time for the summer when many services are at their busiest.

I can understand the reduction of peak time services due to changed commuting behaviour. It is the reduction of off-peak services which to me make less sense, yes in the short term they may save money, however if overcrowded trains and fewer services drive passengers off the railways, will it even actually save much or any money long term.

Certainly in my neck of the woods, reducing half-hourly services to hourly will drive people away from the trains.

Not much point in restoring them to how they were if they don't reflect the changes to peak travelling times. Those resources of those extra services which uses to run in the morning peak on weekdays could do with being switched to extra services at the weekend, for example.

It isn't just morning peak services that are being cut, as above in some parts all services are being cut back. That means that for many the options are reduced to a level where a single cancellation will mean at least another hours wait. Given that a lot of workers now need more flexibility not less, these kinds of cuts will drive people away from the rails at a time when we need more people to use them instead of driving.