• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Is it too hard for a visitor to buy an Oyster card when arriving London for the first time?

Status
Not open for further replies.

pelli

Member
Joined
15 Sep 2016
Messages
246
And is there a convenience store which sells Oyster near every station in the zones if there are no TfL stations nearby? A visitor will be doomed if his intention is to use a London Bus to visit the suburb but he has no contactless and nowhere to buy an Oyster near his entry station into London, especially if he is transferring at a smaller zone 4/5/6 station instead of somewhere as busy as Clapham Junction where I can expect a convenience store on a street.

You can find Oyster ticket stop locations here: https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/oyster-ticket-stops . I had a look around south of the river and the vast majority of stations had Oyster ticket stops right next door, as to be expected from the correlation between stations, shops, and where many people go.

I did find a few stations that have a bus stop within 2 minutes' walk but to get to an Oyster ticket stop you'd have to walk 5-6 minutes (e.g. North Dulwich, Tolworth, Syon Lane, Teddington, South Merton, Morden South and Reedham) or even 10 minutes (e.g. Ewell East, Coulsdon South, Whyteleafe South and Mitcham Junction). (Although on closer inspection, the Southern website says that at North Dulwich and Coulsdon South, "Pre-loaded Oyster Cards can be purchased at the ticket office".)

On the very outskirts of the Rail & Tube map there are no Oyster ticket stops at all around Knockholt, Chessington South, and some stations on the Tattenham Corner branch, the Epsom Downs branch, and the outside-of-normal-zones line to Gatwick Airport, but many of these stations don't have TfL buses around anyway.

With foresight, in many cases you could avoid the walk of doom without too much added effort/time/cost by e.g. disembarking at an earlier station to buy your Oyster card at an adjacent Oyster ticket stop and then either continuing by bus from there or resuming the train journey. But I do think it's a reasonable assumption that train stations where Oyster cards are valid do sell Oyster cards, so I can't really fault passengers for assuming this without checking and then getting caught out...
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

MikeWh

Established Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
15 Jun 2010
Messages
7,870
Location
Crayford
The National Rail and Tube Map indicates that only National Rail and London Overground use Clapham Junction.

On that basis, why should a TOC ticket vending machine sell a competitor product?
LO is operated on behalf of TfL. But anyway, it's hardly a competitor product if it is valid to use on TOC services.
and some debit cards are valid for 10 years.

This must be incredibly rare.
I'm sure it is, but I always wonder when a dropdown box appears to enter the expiry date and goes down 20 years.
 

matt_world2004

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2014
Messages
4,504
I'm sure the ticket machines at terminal 5 retail oyster cards they did when I was there last
 

Wolfie

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2010
Messages
6,151
I do think it's a reasonable point in a way - public transport in London is heavily geared towards Oyster and contactless, but not everyone will necessary have the latter, and it's not possible to get an Oyster card at every station.

In those circumstances it does seem a little unfair to charge extra for the luxury of using paper tickets. I think that a condition of allowing cheaper paper tickets to be scrapped should have been that Oyster cards must be sold at all stations.
But TfL neither run "all stations" in London nor can compel TOCs to sell Oyster cards. It took long enough, and DfT leverage, to get several TOCs to even accept them.....
 

miklcct

On Moderation
Joined
2 May 2021
Messages
4,330
Location
Cricklewood
I do think it's a reasonable point in a way - public transport in London is heavily geared towards Oyster and contactless, but not everyone will necessary have the latter, and it's not possible to get an Oyster card at every station.

In those circumstances it does seem a little unfair to charge extra for the luxury of using paper tickets. I think that a condition of allowing cheaper paper tickets to be scrapped should have been that Oyster cards must be sold at all stations.
I also have this viewpoint as well, with exception of some smaller unmanned stations where there are no services to outside London.

I've mentioned that a visitor will be doomed if he needs to use a bus, and it's also unfair if he needs a paper ticket to change to domestic national rail services as well when it's much more expensive.
 

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
16,113
Location
0036
T5 station is combined and managed by Heathrow Express. Though I'm fairly sure there is a TfL Visitor Centre type place in T5 arrivals (though probably easy to walk past without spotting it)
I think it’s at T123 tube station (to which one can get a free transfer by HEX if needed); whether it’s been open of late is a separate question.
 
Last edited:

miklcct

On Moderation
Joined
2 May 2021
Messages
4,330
Location
Cricklewood
LO is operated on behalf of TfL. But anyway, it's hardly a competitor product if it is valid to use on TOC services.



I'm sure it is, but I always wonder when a dropdown box appears to enter the expiry date and goes down 20 years.

In Hong Kong, the standard practice is to have credit card valid for 5 years and debit card for 10 years, and contactless there only gained popularity in about 2017-2019. Also, there are still some major banks issuing non-contactless debit cards now.

Most notably, UnionPay contactless aren't accepted here so visitors coming from Hong Kong have to buy an Oyster card anyway if they don't have a Visa / MasterCard credit card, as most banks issue UnionPay debit cards with Citibank the only exception. This will cause trouble if they visit London other than by flying directly into it, for example, travelling to Dover from France by ship first then take the slow service to South London and visit from there.
 

matt

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
30 Jun 2005
Messages
7,828
Location
Rugby
This will cause trouble if they visit London other than by flying directly into it, for example, travelling to Dover from France by ship first then take the slow service to South London and visit from there.

How many visitors from Hong Kong are likely to arrive by ferry from France? This is a very niche example.
 

miklcct

On Moderation
Joined
2 May 2021
Messages
4,330
Location
Cricklewood
How many visitors from Hong Kong are likely to arrive by ferry from France? This is a very niche example.
Thank you for telling me that overland European travel is niche. I have read many stories of people travelling around Europe by rail and ferry and I do that as well so I don't have this thinking.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
Thank you for telling me that overland European travel is niche. I have read many stories of people travelling around Europe by rail and ferry and I do that as well so I don't have this thinking.

Foot passengers into Dover and then onward train is very, very, very niche these days.
 

Wolfie

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2010
Messages
6,151
Thank you for telling me that overland European travel is niche. I have read many stories of people travelling around Europe by rail and ferry and I do that as well so I don't have this thinking.
With the best will in the world effectively nugatory expenditure to address whatever increasingly unlikely scenarios that you can come up with is exceptionally unlikely.
 

skyhigh

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
5,297
Thank you for telling me that overland European travel is niche. I have read many stories of people travelling around Europe by rail and ferry and I do that as well so I don't have this thinking.
Overland European travel from France into the UK by people from Hong Kong is absolutely very niche.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,784
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Foot passengers into Dover and then onward train is very, very, very niche these days.

In a "none at all" sense - pretty sure the ferries aren't back taking foot passengers yet.

Edit: given how few people bothered, I suspect they may well never do on the Dover routes.
 
Last edited:

Surreytraveller

On Moderation
Joined
21 Oct 2009
Messages
2,810
The National Rail and Tube Map indicates that only National Rail and London Overground use Clapham Junction.

On that basis, why should a TOC ticket vending machine sell a competitor product?

I am sure that visitors, regardless of their origin, can plan ahead and purchase an Oyster card online. Maybe their TOC's smartcard can provide the capability they require or a paper ticket.

I was planning on visiting London this year but won't now until next year but my Oyster card is happy waiting at home. It was delivered by mail. I'll add my Railcard when I get to my nearest station that can

If you were using the London Overground, I am sure the ticket vending machine would sell a single ticket until you could buy an Oyster card if you didn't want to use Contactless.
London Overground is part of National Rail
 

Alfonso

Member
Joined
22 Jul 2017
Messages
472
Thank you for telling me that overland European travel is niche. I have read many stories of people travelling around Europe by rail and ferry and I do that as well so I don't have this thinking.
The sort of people who have the ability and desire to plan an overland trip via the Dover to Calais ferry are likely to be the same sort of people who would look up London tickets in advance and sort themselves out in advance.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
15,118
Most notably, UnionPay contactless aren't accepted here
Anybody turning up in the UK with only a UnionPay card is going to find their ability to spend money severely compromised regardless of contactless acceptance. It is far from mainstream here and many, many merchants won’t accept it in any form.
 

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
16,113
Location
0036
So if I can summarise, we now have a person flying from Hong Kong to mainland Europe, taking the ferry from Calais to Dover (which doesn’t take foot passengers), taking (at least) three trains to get to Clapham Junction whilst studiously avoiding any London terminal or TfL run station, whose only method of payment is apparently a UnionPay card that was issued nine and a half years ago and doesn’t have contactless facilities.

You’ll excuse me for filing this under ”has never happened and never will”.
 

infobleep

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
12,646
I think a more interesting exercise is trying to come up with scenarios where Clapham Junction is ever the entry point to London. (I know Balham is the Gateway to the South)
If you have a ticket that's valid via Clapham Junction but not central London and you wish to visit Central London.

However, as has been pointed out, there are shops nearby.

The more annoying thing is the fact one cannot add a discount so would need to make a journey at full price to get it added. Unless you went by bus and was already needing to head to a tube station or other place where a discount could be added.

However, how many people would be in this category?
 

miklcct

On Moderation
Joined
2 May 2021
Messages
4,330
Location
Cricklewood
Unless you went by bus and was already needing to head to a tube station or other place where a discount could be added.
I tried that. The staff refused to do that and told me to register my Oyster card first, which couldn't be done on the first day. Was it correct or should I make a complaint to TfL?
 

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
14,246
Location
St Albans
Why do so many threads on RUK end up discussing why public transport in the UK should accommodate ever more niche travel requirements? It always reminds me of the Marty Feldman holiday insurance sketch, (for those that can remember it). :)
 

_toommm_

Established Member
Joined
8 Jul 2017
Messages
5,855
Location
Yorkshire
I don’t know anyone in this country who doesn’t have a contactless bank card.

Some of the *older* generation, I’ve found, choose to have a card that isn’t contactless out of the fear that their money will get spent if they lose their card (although banks specifically making non-contactless cards an option is dying out); even though any purchases made with a stolen card through contactless are *i believe* covered by the bank.
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
Some of the *older* generation, I’ve found, choose to have a card that isn’t contactless out of the fear that their money will get spent if they lose their card (although banks specifically making non-contactless cards an option is dying out); even though any purchases made with a stolen card through contactless are *i believe* covered by the bank.
There's been a huge amount of paranoia spread about things like getting money stolen from your pocket by scammers with card readers. I don't think it's ever happened.
 

T-Karmel

Member
Joined
20 Mar 2010
Messages
394
Location
London
I'm pretty sure I purchased my Oyster card at Heathrow.

First problem, T5 'underground' did not sell them but let me travel free on the service to T123 stop.
The next station said they could not sell the card and put a Railcard discount on it. But they could fix this if I filled in the form as that would tie the card to me, which I did. This was quite some time ago, before contactless.
I did not get the visitor card as that had a non-refundable charge.

T5 station is combined and managed by Heathrow Express. Though I'm fairly sure there is a TfL Visitor Centre type place in T5 arrivals (though probably easy to walk past without spotting it)
Visitor Centre was and still is located in T2&3 LUL Station.
I'm sure the ticket machines at terminal 5 retail oyster cards they did when I was there last
They do indeed since 2018, and for years until 2018 HEX ticket office in T5 did it. Please see eoff's post I quoted above and I bolded part about that he bought his Oyster very very long time ago.
I think it’s at T123 tube station (to which one can get a free transfer by HEX if needed); whether it’s been open of late is a separate question.
Correct, Visitor Centre is in T2&3 LUL Station however ticket machines located now at T5 LUL Station as well as at all three Heathrow Rail stations they do issue Oysters for the past 3 years.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,784
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Some of the *older* generation, I’ve found, choose to have a card that isn’t contactless out of the fear that their money will get spent if they lose their card (although banks specifically making non-contactless cards an option is dying out); even though any purchases made with a stolen card through contactless are *i believe* covered by the bank.

Retailer risk I believe.
 

T-Karmel

Member
Joined
20 Mar 2010
Messages
394
Location
London
I mean... anyone in a desperate need of taking public transport in London starting their journey at the doors of The Great Gates of London (I mean, Clapham Junction), really not having a contactless card, not being able to walk to any of the Oyster shops nearby, having this odd non-contactless debit card, or Union Pay, will at least have cash on them.

And they can use this cash to pay for a paper travelcard. And they will pay a little bit more for Day 1 of their trip. And they use it to go to Victoria. And they'll buy Oyster over there and they'll have it on them for tomorrow.

Should we expect bus drivers to sell Oysters as well?
 

Mainline421

Member
Joined
7 May 2013
Messages
500
Location
Aberystwyth
So if I can summarise, we now have a person flying from Hong Kong to mainland Europe, taking the ferry from Calais to Dover (which doesn’t take foot passengers), taking (at least) three trains to get to Clapham Junction whilst studiously avoiding any London terminal or TfL run station, whose only method of payment is apparently a UnionPay card that was issued nine and a half years ago and doesn’t have contactless facilities.

You’ll excuse me for filing this under ”has never happened and never will”.
Who said they flew? They could have changed at Beijing and taken the Trans-Siberian. :lol:
 

bb21

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
24,151
I think we are done. As I said in about Post 5, "TfL cannot cater for every single person's need".
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top