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Is there a drought?
- Thread starter Teddysim
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Myself and quite a few colleagues have talked about this lately. We believe that most tocs are going to go street to seat or depot driver route, rather than take qualified. That's just speculation though and not every toc. Avanti recently recruited for qualified.
There’s quite a few trainees rolling through most TOCs at the moment; many still working through the massive backlog they’ve had recently post-Covid. Maybe industrial action has had something to do with it too and recruitment being more cautious.
I also think there’s some merit in the arguments that TOCs are looking for “fresh blood” as drivers new to the industry or from other grades.
Of course some of the lowered paid TOCs (Southeastern for instance) would probably jump on the chance for a qualified. What you’re probably saying is there’s no vacancies that will be beneficial for you; of course if you work at somewhere like Southeastern already then anything is beneficial!
I also think there’s some merit in the arguments that TOCs are looking for “fresh blood” as drivers new to the industry or from other grades.
Of course some of the lowered paid TOCs (Southeastern for instance) would probably jump on the chance for a qualified. What you’re probably saying is there’s no vacancies that will be beneficial for you; of course if you work at somewhere like Southeastern already then anything is beneficial!
There does seem to have been a shift away from qualified to trainees this year, reversing a Trent at my TOC over the past few years.
My depot has just this year taken on its first trainees since inception 15 years ago, always taken drivers from freight before but it has created a constant turnover due to the higher age when recruiting.
I'd still drop emails to recruitment teams on the off chance they may have something.
I think some of these things come in 10-15 year cycles too as there’s naturally increased retirements although that’s just an impression. This means each time you do this, you need another big replacement for that one and so on. For instance, I believe three was a big push in mid 2000s as services started to get properly ramped up and also in early 1990s as privatisation started and rosters were tightened up.
Indistinct
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I’m in a similar position, looking at London/Southern TOCs.
Avanti, MTR (Abbeywood) and GA have all advertised this year. GWR have constant adverts but I can’t remember if that includes Paddington. Further out, Chiltern and XC have also advertised.
LNER and GTR I believe will only take trainees now. It definitely seems harder now to move as a qualified driver, I assume due to the government funding for “apprenticeships”.
There are always FOCs to consider, if you don’t mind nights the work can be good and there is potential to earn very good money.
Avanti, MTR (Abbeywood) and GA have all advertised this year. GWR have constant adverts but I can’t remember if that includes Paddington. Further out, Chiltern and XC have also advertised.
LNER and GTR I believe will only take trainees now. It definitely seems harder now to move as a qualified driver, I assume due to the government funding for “apprenticeships”.
There are always FOCs to consider, if you don’t mind nights the work can be good and there is potential to earn very good money.
Is an internal move not an option? Or are you already at your closest depot?
That’s quite the distance for London!
If you are serious, I'm don't think they actually allow it!
the sniper
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Personally I wouldn't be surprised if this is a deliberate direction the DfT have encouraged/stipulated, having woken up to the idea that unmanaged competition and movement between TOCs for qualified drivers has in the past driven up pay rises. With it all under their control these transfers could now be easily managed, but I can imagine them choosing instead a ham-fisted, anti-worker policy that stops qualified vacancies being advertised where ever possible.
ASLEF really need to get a grip on this. I know that they are in favour of nationalisation and apprenticeships but competition has helped them massively over the years. They need to see the wood from the trees and realise that as long as the government/TOCs are enjoying the best of both worlds so far as privatisation/nationalisation is concerned, the workers are suffering the worst of both worlds.
What is best for some is worse for others, there needs to be a more balanced approach rather than this massive swinging of trainees/qualifieds. If you never hire fresh meat (be that off the streets or internal progression) then you will end up with a very high average age and issues of shortages through retirement.
That's correct with the government funding, though sometimes it's also who you know.
I'd agree with that, I think it would be perfectly fair having a split between the two. It allows new people into the industry whilst encouraging free and fair competition between TOCs to retain qualified drivers.
Doubt it's got much to do with ASLEF. If a qualified driver moves to fill a vacancy (say caused by retirement), that still leaves another vacancy to fill...
As above TOC/FOC are more inclined to go down the apprenticeship/trainee route as it gets some sort of funding. I've been looking for atleast 12 months now and haven't found hardly anything worth applying for apart from eurostar. Part of me thinks covid hasn't helped with recruiting qualified drivers due to timetable cuts and reduced services.
I'm hoping it does get better and more firms start hiring for qualified again because at the moment it feels just as hard to get a qualified job as it is a trainee job which shouldn't be the case in my opinion.
I'm hoping it does get better and more firms start hiring for qualified again because at the moment it feels just as hard to get a qualified job as it is a trainee job which shouldn't be the case in my opinion.
How do you work this out? If a qualified drivers takes a job somewhere else it creates a vacancy at the place they just left. A trainee driver will fill one vacancy instead of the other. Companies recruiting qualified drivers doesn't have any effect on the number of drivers nationally. It's things like Sundays outside the week and reliance on rest day working that keep overall driver numbers down, and these are both things that ASLEF policy claims it wants to eradicate.
I am only going by what I have heard from other drivers. If aslef manages to agree a toc taking on 50 trainees thats potentially 50 new members paying. Thats what I have been told. Would you as a business not be inclined to moving that way? More money?
Because if they don't take on the 50 trainees and instead they take 50 qualified, then the 50 qualified will pay union subs. They don't make anymore, in fact for a while they might make less as the subs are based on the salary.
Because it doesn't matter where those 50 drivers come from, even if it's a mix of both it creates vacancies where any post qual drivers move from. Not sure any depot is downsizing it's driver complement currently or in the near future.
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