Is there a recommended approach in this situation?

[pemma]

Last night an operator that has a fleet of smaller buses had to cope with extra demand after a special event. The journey time of the route is 25 minutes and the timetabled frequency is every half-hour.

What they did was to send a small bus (probably around 16 seats) around ahead of the scheduled time - presumably sent it out as soon as it filled up at the origin stop. Then sent a Mercedes midi-bus around (20 something seats plus some standing) around a few minutes after the scheduled time.

It seemed like a sensible thing to do considering they didn't have any buses available which would hold 40-50. However, officially is that the best approach to take?

 

[455driver]

Surely using what you have available is the only approach!

As for "officially", what is officially meant to mean, there was a problem of overcrowding so they ran a relief to solve the problem.

 

[pemma]

One thing that I was unsure about is that to the passengers boarding at the intermediate stops they might see a bus depart before and not be aware that a second bus is following which can pick them up before the same bus comes round again.

I think sending the bigger bus around on time with the relief bus being the smaller one running just behind it might have worked better but it was probably the case that the smaller bus was at the origin stop first.

 

[455driver]

I think sending the bigger bus around on time with the relief bus being the smaller one running just behind it might have worked better but it was probably the case that the smaller bus was at the origin stop first.

So the passengers see the (normal) bigger bus leave and would assume thats it.

By sending the minibus out first (and a few minutes early) to sweep up it would leave the normal bus to run on time, best that could happen really.

 

[pemma]

So the passengers see the (normal) bigger bus leave and would assume thats it.

If it was running to time and not overtaken by the minibus the driver of the bigger bus could tell any waiting passengers that another bus is following if their bus hasn't started to empty out.

If your scheduled bus time was 18:55 and you noticed one bus belonging to the operator of the bus you intend to catch go past at 18:48 but you didn't make the bus, would you really expect another one to be around at 19:00, which is what happened?

 

[455driver]

So what do you suggest then!

 

[CatfordCat]

I'm not quite sure what the official line would be, and I can't find one in current guidance for operating local bus services.

The position about running extra or duplicate buses is fuzzy - some (mainly larger, incumbent) operators have in the past used 'extra' or 'duplicate' buses as a way of trying to run competitors off the road / run on competitors' times / block key bus stops, and the traffic commissioners have tended to take a dim view of this.

I wonder if, technically, the operator here should have put a variation notice in saying that on this date (or these dates, or dates that X event is happening if it's a regular event) then the service frequency will be increased, or alternatively registered an additional 'special event days only' timetable - this can be quite flexible, e.g. there are registered services to Reading FC's ground which are registered on the basis they run for home matches only, and depart X minutes before kick-off / Y minutes after final whistle.

On a practical level, I don't know how specific the operator would have to be about this, and with some events, you never know quite when it's going to finish.

One operator near where I used to live did get a registration accepted that included pretty much unlimited extra journeys via any practical route (plus a proviso for any other route as directed by police) for the duration of an annual major weekend event on the line of his main route, but that was some years ago.

A major operator where I live now has it on registrations that some routes will take a different route to avoid road closures / congestion during an annual major event that affects some routes.

A lot of this sort of thing used to depend on the discretion of individual area traffic commissioners and their staff, so you had the situation where one registration would get accepted without question, a similar one would get rejected. There is now a central team dealing with service registrations, so there may be more consistency now (I've not had to handle a situation like this for some time.)

Broadly speaking, I think this operator should have spoken to the people who handle service registrations before doing it...

 

[MCR247]

I

I wonder if, technically, the operator here should have put a variation notice in saying that on this date (or these dates, or dates that X event is happening if it's a regular event) then the service frequency will be increased, or alternatively registered an additional 'special event days only' timetable - this can be quite flexible, e.g. there are registered services to Reading FC's ground which are registered on the basis they run for home matches only, and depart X minutes before kick-off / Y minutes after final whistle.


Broadly speaking, I think this operator should have spoken to the people who handle service registrations before doing it...

I disagree with this as I am pretty sure it doesn't count as the service frequency is being increased if you are just running duplicate services. AFAIAA this is allowed and there is no problem with it

 

[pjnathanail]

I disagree with this as I am pretty sure it doesn't count as the service frequency is being increased if you are just running duplicate services. AFAIAA this is allowed and there is no problem with it

But was it a duplicate service if it ran earlier than the public times for the original service?

 

[455driver]

Yes of course it was, a duplicate can in front of or behind the normal bus, it can also only cover part of the route as well, it is just a form of crowd control.

If a company has a bus and driver available then they can be used at a moments notice if needed, no paperwork necessary, whty does everyone want to complicate what is a very simple process.

 

[Lewisham2221]

If your scheduled bus time was 18:55 and you noticed one bus belonging to the operator of the bus you intend to catch go past at 18:48 but you didn't make the bus, would you really expect another one to be around at 19:00, which is what happened?

Quite possibly. If I saw a bus on route with a 30 minute frequency, departing 7 minutes 'early' I would probably assume that it was the previous journey running late for some reason.

 

[34D]

Two views from me:

Common sense: this is a sensible way of dealing with the issue

VOSA view: the earlier service would be an illegal operation (though may be ok if for no more than 5 weeks iirc). Technically, you can only dupe if the main bus is full, so the small one needs to be sent at the published times, with the other behind it.