Is there a right to free water on long distance trains?

[Mojo]

I don't think that there is any requirement to provide free drinking water on trains. I don't think that there will be potable water from a tap on many units.

With trains there is the complexity that they may not actually be carrying drinkable cold tap water at all.

It would be interesting to see how British Airways handles this issue. When they recently controversially abolished complimentary drink and snack items on their short-haul non-Cityflyer routes they did confirm that they will continue to supply drinking water in a cup to customers who request it. I haven't travelled with them short-haul since the changes, prior to this they had a large bottle of 'Highland Spring' which was dispensed when requested; I'm not sure if this is still the case or if there is some other type of generic potable water they carry onboard in the galley.

 

[Highlandspring]

I’ve not drunk tea or coffee on a plane since a friend who’s an aircraft engineer described the black sludge they have to remove from the potable water tanks on a regular basis...

 

[NoOnesFool]

I don't think that there is any requirement to provide free drinking water on trains. I don't think that there will be potable water from a tap on many units.

I have been on heavily delayed East Coast (as they were) and ScotRail trains where free bottles of water, tea, coffee and soft drinks were provided from the trolley. You also get a free bottle of water on ScotRail if you buy a whisky miniature from the trolley, I particularly like the Auchentoshan!

On the buffets I work on, the tap water is not suitable for human consumption.

 

[thenorthern]

The TOCs do have a licence to sell alcohol so in theory should be required to provide "portable water" for free on request.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would be interesting to see how British Airways handles this issue. When they recently controversially abolished complimentary drink and snack items on their short-haul non-Cityflyer routes they did confirm that they will continue to supply drinking water in a cup to customers who request it. I haven't travelled with them short-haul since the changes, prior to this they had a large bottle of 'Highland Spring' which was dispensed when requested; I'm not sure if this is still the case or if there is some other type of generic potable water they carry onboard in the galley.

Aircraft do carry potable tap water that isn't all heated, unlike trains.

 

[Mojo]

Aircraft do carry potable tap water that isn't all heated, unlike trains.

So it is technically possible then, for a mobile service to provide it.

 

[Intermodal]

The TOCs do have a licence to sell alcohol so in theory should be required to provide "portable water" for free on request.

This is not true at all. The TOCs sell alcohol to take away and consume, such as an off licence does. Off licences do not provide free water.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The TOCs do have a licence to sell alcohol so in theory should be required to provide "portable water" for free on request.

TOCs are licence exempt for alcohol sold on trains as licences are based on local authority areas. This means they are not subject to licence stipulations such as this (or other ones local authorities often apply, such as a requirement for security staff or CCTV, though most trains these days have the latter anyway).

 

[Bletchleyite]

So it is technically possible then, for a mobile service to provide it.

Of course it is, you just need a tank! Trains do have water tanks but they are not cleaned/disinfected etc to make it potable without boiling.

 

[Darandio]

The TOCs do have a licence to sell alcohol so in theory should be required to provide "portable water" for free on request.

The TOC's don't operate licensed premises.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is not true at all. The TOCs sell alcohol to take away and consume, such as an off licence does. Off licences do not provide free water.

They aren't even the same as an off licence - they have no licence at all - they are exempt because of a technicality of how licencing works in the UK, as they don't spend all their time in one local authority area.

 

[Intermodal]

They aren't even the same as an off licence - they have no licence at all - they are exempt because of a technicality of how licencing works in the UK, as they don't spend all their time in one local authority area.

Is this why Merseyrail does not have an on-board shop?

 

[Llanigraham]

The TOCs do have a licence to sell alcohol so in theory should be required to provide "portable water" for free on request.

As has already been described, trains are not covered by an alcoholic drinks licence, therefore this does not apply.

 

[laseandre]

The TOCs do have a licence to sell alcohol so in theory should be required to provide "portable water" for free on request.

Haven't you read the thread at all? TOCs aren't licenced at all - licensing is a local authority matter, which obviously, when a train can run through many local authorities on its route. For example, a Virgin train from Glasgow to London passes through, on my count, 34 unitary authorities, districts or London boroughs on its way, it would be ridiculous to expect train companies to comply with each and every licensing authority.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is this why Merseyrail does not have an on-board shop?

No, Merseyrail doesn't have an on-board shop because metro services do not have on-board shops. And Merseyrail operates in quite a number of local authority areas - Merseyside County Council hasn't existed for years, and even when it did they also go into Cheshire and Lancashire.

Basically, moving vehicles are licence exempt because they could be in lots of places. This also made them exempt from the old licensing hours - I know some people who on one occasion wanted to carry on drinking once the pubs had shut so took a train to Leeds and back from Manchester to do so!

 

[DavidGrain]

I have seen advice posters on stations which actually tell you to always have a bottle of water with you when travelling. Some stations have now installed public free water dispensers, just bring your own bottle.

 

[londonboi198o5]

Same, I've always been looked after very well by Eurostar staff of all nationalities.

Same as me never had a problem with any Eurostar staff always polite and friendly
It always amazes me how people say staff had a bad attitude etc when they don’t hear the answer they want.
It’s the same in the penalty fare section. Whenever someone gets caught with it a valid ticket etc the comment “the inspector was rude” always seems to appear.

 

[Spartacus]

So it is technically possible then, for a mobile service to provide it.

Yeah, but aircraft tend to have built in tanks as well as a hold, which on many aircraft will be quite sizable. Many trains barely have a tank big enough to provide toilet water for the day or luggage space for more than light bags.

 

[Matt_pool]

A few years ago I was on a train from Krakow to Warsaw and a guy was coming down the aisle with a trolley. I had already purchased a sandwich and a beer beforehand at Krakow station so didn't need to buy anything.

But the Polish guy sat next to me cottoned on that I was foreign and he was pointing at the trolley and saying something in Polish. I just shook my head and said "nie". And he said to me in English "but it's free!". I didn't believe him so didn't get anything.

The next leg of my journey was from Warsaw to Berlin and this time I have was in a compartment with 5 other people. And along came a guy with a trolley. I asked for a coffee and got some biscuits too and had my money ready to pay... "It's free" said the lady sat opposite.

There was also a choice of tea, juice and water, all free...

...and both these journeys were in standard class and cost peanuts!

The guy with the trolley on the Warsaw - Berlin train came through the train later in the journey and this time I got a carton of juice and a bottle of water, free of course; and I also went to the buffet car and got a bottle of Tyskie beer for something ridiculously cheap like £1.20!

 

[221129]

Never mind free water, try asking for hot water on CrossCountry. Just saw a tweet with a complaint that they were charged £2.30 for a cup of hot water.

Again that's to do with the limited amount of Hot Water on board and to stop people asking for a free cup of Hot Water then using their own tea bags.

 

[thenorthern]

In an effort to reduce plastics a lot of places now offer free water refill points where people can refill their water bottle.

Not the easiest thing to have on a train given that there is no mains supply, I suppose there is those fancy air water generators which generate water out of thin air but they are expensive and not very efficient.

 

[Mojo]

Water fountains on board trains are not particularly uncommon in countries outside Europe.

 

[Ianigsy]

Indeed - they were certainly on the V-Line DMUs working out of Melbourne when I was there in 2004.

 

[dgl]

I suppose there is those fancy air water generators which generate water out of thin air but they are expensive and not very efficient.

Not efficient AT ALL and the water is not necessarily safe to drink, they seem to be just an easy way to scam people out of money (see thunderf00t on YouTube)

Just have a drinking water tank on the train and use water troughs to refill it , or of course put drainpipes inside pacers and collect the water that leaks in, sell it as au naturel train filtered water.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Leicester station waiting rooms were refurbished recently and have free water dispensers in them.

 

[CheshireCrusty]

Never mind free water, try asking for hot water on CrossCountry. Just saw a tweet with a complaint that they were charged £2.30 for a cup of hot water.

On Cross Country services with their trolley service that would be a misleading description anyway , it should more properly be described as "heated water". If you call something tea or coffee - there is no implication that you are getting something other then a lukewarm liquid!

 

[Western Lord]

Basically, moving vehicles are licence exempt because they could be in lots of places. This also made them exempt from the old licensing hours - I know some people who on one occasion wanted to carry on drinking once the pubs had shut so took a train to Leeds and back from Manchester to do so!

As anybody who has watched "The Titfield Thunderbolt" will know!

 

[221129]

On Cross Country services with their trolley service that would be a misleading description anyway , it should more properly be described as "heated water". If you call something tea or coffee - there is no implication that you are getting something other then a lukewarm liquid!

If only that were the case...

 

[DDB]

To quote the licenceing act 2003
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/17/part/9/crossheading/exemptions-etc

173Activities in certain locations not licensable
(1)An activity is not a licensable activity if it is carried on—

(a)aboard an aircraft, hovercraft or railway vehicle engaged on a journey,

(b)aboard a vessel engaged on an international journey,

(c)at an approved wharf at a designated port or hoverport,

(d)at an examination station at a designated airport,

(e)at a royal palace,

(f)at premises which, at the time when the activity is carried on, are permanently or temporarily occupied for the purposes of the armed forces of the Crown,

(g)at premises in respect of which a certificate issued under section 174 (exemption for national security) has effect, or

(h)at such other place as may be prescribed.

(2)For the purposes of subsection (1) the period during which an aircraft, hovercraft, railway vehicle or vessel is engaged on a journey includes—

(a)any period ending with its departure when preparations are being made for the journey, and

(b)any period after its arrival at its destination when it continues to be occupied by those (or any of those) who made the journey (or any part of it).

 

[thenorthern]

Not efficient AT ALL and the water is not necessarily safe to drink, they seem to be just an easy way to scam people out of money (see thunderf00t on YouTube)

Just have a drinking water tank on the train and use water troughs to refill it , or of course put drainpipes inside pacers and collect the water that leaks in, sell it as au naturel train filtered water.

I think there are some better ones that run on electricity but they use a lot of electricity, much more than a water bill would be.

Maybe they should do what they do on space stations or in London for that matter and use recycled water from sewage. Seems disgusting at first but if you think about it it would solve a lot of problems that currently exist.