Javelin

[TGV]

Took my first trip on a Javelin today. Covered HS1 and some old 3rd rail track too.

First impressions: Great acceleration. But not so amazed by anything else.

- Seats were not comfortable. Even Desiro's are better.
- That infamous vibration (feels like poor yaw control) was still present and not just in the tunnels. I know they are working on it though, but it shouldn't be present in modern rolling stock at all.
- Interior colours - drab and dull and incredibly already looking tired in places.
- No 1st class, or any kind of services on board - doesn't *feel* like a premium train service.
- But worst was the noise. SO much more wind noise than a Eurostar through the same tunnels and even out in the open - and at lower speeds too. Motor whine always present as you'd expect in a multiple unit.

And this is a train that's 15 years newer than the 373s? Yes, I know it's not for the same type of job, but that's no excuse for some of these problems. Especially the noise. a 373 is quieter in the vestibules at 186 than these things were in the seating area at 140.

 

[notadriver]

I disagree. Seat pitch is far superior to a Eurostar not to mention it's acceleration which would leave your precious Eurostar for dead.

 

[TGV]

I disagree. Seat pitch felt no better than a 373 (certainly not in 1st). I agree the acceleration is good, but with a max service speed nearly 50mph less, it wouldn't "leave it for dead" for long. A new Victoria line train would leave any rolling stock "for dead" up to about 30mph, but that's taking a stupid argument to an even more stupid level. Horses for courses.

My point is that as new rolling stock, it's lacking. The hailed Japanese wonder train felt like no more than a Desiro running 40mph faster with poorer ride, more noise and no 1st class.

That doesn't meet with my approval.

 

[TomJ93]

Agree with your lack of services point, I feel the same way towards XC.
You mention windy vestibules? Surely 373s and 395s are pressurised like the 390?

 

[notadriver]

I disagree. Seat pitch felt no better than a 373 (certainly not in 1st). I agree the acceleration is good, but with a max service speed nearly 50mph less, it wouldn't "leave it for dead" for long. A new Victoria line train would leave any rolling stock "for dead" up to about 30mph, but that's taking a stupid argument to an even more stupid level. Horses for courses.

My point is that as new rolling stock, it's lacking. The hailed Japanese wonder train felt like no more than a Desiro running 40mph faster with poorer ride, more noise and no 1st class.

That doesn't meet with my approval.

The seat pitch is far superior to the Electrostars on the main line which is what they should be compared against. It doesn't need 1st class as premium fares are already charged on the high speed portion of the line.

I use Javelins to get to work every day and I have no complaints whatsoever especially compared with using the Class 375s which are feeling quite tired by comparison.

The Javelin is generally accepted to be the fastest accelerating main line train in the UK. It can reach 100 mph in under 90 seconds if allowed. Unfortunately departures from Ashford, Ebbsfleet and Stratford are restricted.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, they looked nice when they were brand spanking new but I could see they'd get dirty just from scuff marks (and when I travelled on a very new train, I manages to cut my hand when walking through it - so there was obviously a bit of rough plastic somewhere - but I never found out where). The TM seemed terrified when I asked for a first aid kit, until I said it was nothing serious - I just wanted a plaster!

I remember when the 360s (?) were new on the former One/Great Eastern route - and they also looked incredibly dirty and worn just a short time (a year or two) later. Southern interiors have the magic of looking old and worn from new so it doesn't show as much!

I guess light plastics are always going to end up looking worn quite quickly, and if a train has lots of areas that aren't cleaned regularly then they'll get dirty too.

In five years from now, they're not going to be very special at all - and people will hate paying the surcharge even more.

But, hey, it's a train and it gets from A to B and seems quite reliable. Most people won't care and we're being petty - but there's nothing wrong with the train itself (besides the above mentioned issues that are being addressed) and it's simply designed to a specification that was presumably requested by SET.

 

[junglejames]

TGV,
Agree with you on virtually everything. However, as has been mentioned, the seat pitch is quite good. Unfortunately they are still bloomin uncomfortable though. I dont know what it is, but i cannot get comfortable on them. So much worse than a 375, just better legroom.
They also have not got a very good ride, and are very noisy esp at speed. Oh, and it isnt 140 your travelling at. Its 125. If the train is on time they never open it right up. Its timetabled for 125mph operation.
Dont worry, your far from the only person to mention how poor the interiors are. I prefered the old slam door stock for comfort. I only use the high speed line because its quicker for me.

Eurostars are some of the most comfortable trains we have in the UK.

 

[pendolino]

I like them, no complaints and personally I find the seats far more comfortable than a Desiro.

Apart from that annoying 'bing-bing-bing' that precedes every automated announcement and the 'We will be calling at Ashford International, Ebbsfleet International, Stratford International and St Pancras International' which quickly becomes very irritating.

The train crew are first class too, very professional.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Just so you know, when me and my brother went to film a Javelin leaving St. Pan and went back through the barriers, the staff there said you shouldn't call them Javelins.

You shouldn't call them Javelins because they sometimes miss their targets while their trains hit their targets

I couldn't possibly comment through because I haven't been on a Javelin yet but they do look very smart

 

[atomicdanny]

I like them, no complaints and personally I find the seats far more comfortable than a Desiro.

Apart from that annoying 'bing-bing-bing' that precedes every automated announcement and the 'We will be calling at Ashford International, Ebbsfleet International, Stratford International and St Pancras International' which quickly becomes very irritating.

The train crew are first class too, very professional.

Its still better than on the electrostars where you get this (the announcements that is) - This Train is for Ramsgate and Dover Priory Calling at (Stations)... This Train will divide en-route at Faversham, The Front Section will call at... The Rear Section will call at.. Please ensure that you are in the correct portion of the train. This is coach number X of Y.

(I've left the station names out - I've put "..." but that is said at everystation on the train before faversham!, and the same on any route that splits for Southern and Southeastern!)

edit - but so far I agree that most of the time the staff on the HS1 trains are brilliant - even had one that went over the top but was brilliant!)

 

[junglejames]

I like them, no complaints and personally I find the seats far more comfortable than a Desiro.

Apart from that annoying 'bing-bing-bing' that precedes every automated announcement and the 'We will be calling at Ashford International, Ebbsfleet International, Stratford International and St Pancras International' which quickly becomes very irritating.

The train crew are first class too, very professional.

Im not a big fan of Desiros either. Yes the train crew usually are very good.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just so you know, when me and my brother went to film a Javelin leaving St. Pan and went back through the barriers, the staff there said you shouldn't call them Javelins.

You shouldn't call them Javelins because they sometimes miss their targets while their trains hit their targets

I couldn't possibly comment through because I haven't been on a Javelin yet but they do look very smart

Some member of staff thought he was being funny! Shame javelins (as in the javelin you throw) dont really have targets!!

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Im not a big fan of Desiros either. Yes the train crew usually are very good.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Some member of staff thought he was being funny! Shame javelins (as in the javelin you throw) dont really have targets!!

I love Desiros, they remind me of little puppy dogs barking away

And it was a she that said that and not a he

 

[466.networkers]

TGV,
Agree with you on virtually everything. However, as has been mentioned, the seat pitch is quite good. Unfortunately they are still bloomin uncomfortable though. I dont know what it is, but i cannot get comfortable on them. So much worse than a 375, just better legroom.
They also have not got a very good ride, and are very noisy esp at speed. Oh, and it isnt 140 your travelling at. Its 125. If the train is on time they never open it right up. Its timetabled for 125mph operation.
Dont worry, your far from the only person to mention how poor the interiors are. I prefered the old slam door stock for comfort. I only use the high speed line because its quicker for me.

Eurostars are some of the most comfortable trains we have in the UK.

All the HS1 services run at 140mph/225km/h unless there is a TSR like there was in the snow (100mph/160km/h). This coming from asking various TMs on the many times I've used the High Speed services!

I'd like to know who told you that they only run at 125mph as they might be timetabled at that speed, they mostly do 140mph ....

 

[TomJ93]

All the HS1 services run at 140mph/225km/h unless there is a TSR like there was in the snow (100mph/160km/h). This coming from asking various TMs on the many times I've used the High Speed services!

I'd like to know who told you that they only run at 125mph as they might be timetabled at that speed, they mostly do 140mph ....

In all fairness i've also heard the "it runs a 125mph unless it's late then it gets permission to do 140mph"

 

[NSE]

I do also recall somewhere reading that they are only permitted to be opened up to 140mph if they are running late, if not then its only 125mph. Mind you not travelled on them so could of course be wrong!

 

[dstrat]

Its 140mph, I travel on the train quite reguarly and whenever I've wondered what speed its going when I feel like its topping out (and bored enough to care), my GPS always reads 140mph.

Unfortunately though with the bare arse scenery, when I go north and hop on an IC225, the perception of speed seems to be a lot greater. Not to mention that you actually feel like you are on a train that somebody has built for other than just a short commute.

Will be a shame when we lose the 225 and 125 with the way trains are built nowadays.

 

[asylumxl]

They run at 140mph. Simple as. They're timetable for 125mph, but there's nothing stopping them running 140mph and arriving early.

 

[466.networkers]

Thanks to dsrat and asylumxl for backing up my post.

Strange that no-one seems to wonder why the Javelin's are early arriving at their destinations ...

 

[NSE]

Well as I said, never actually been on them, just going on an old news report :L

 

[atomicdanny]

Thanks to dsrat and asylumxl for backing up my post.

Strange that no-one seems to wonder why the Javelin's are early arriving at their destinations ...

I actually noticed this on one of them, it was five minutes late leaving Faversham and arrived at Stratford Six minutes early - according to the departure board! (so that would definately be 140mph running i would think! - well between ebbsfleet and stratford)

 

[TGV]

Yeah it's 140 for sure. Measured it with a gps data logger. Also was with some drivers at the time who guessed 230 from their experience. In our train the TVM has 200, 230, 270 and 300 so if they are running 140 (225) then they have a different scale. Or it's actually 230 which is a shade over 140.

 

[Clip]

Its great to have it but they really really need to sort out the stopping pattern.. its just of no use having it calling at so many stations especially if you go up through faversham>meday> london.

Until they sort it out and reduce the calling pattern then im just not really going to use it that often when i go south.

 

[junglejames]

Well i stand corrected by those with the GPS units!! However I dont think every driver opens them up fully. Reason I said 125 is because thats definitely what they are timetabled for, plus I very rarely arrive that early.
Admittedly I have arrived a good couple of mins early into Ebbsfleet at times, but not often. It probably depends what mood the driver is in.
It is a nusaince that they only timetable them for 125. Plus stopping at every station on the HS1 really slows things down.

 

[notadriver]

I've had a cab ride in them TGV and the TVM shows 225 so it is a slightly different scale in that respect. On most journeys to work it does 140, on some it does 125-130. Totally depends on the driver. What I can tell you is that because of the gradient profile it is impossible to hold that speed on gradients and speeds will flunctuate quite appreciably.

What is annoying is that on departure from Stratford and Ebbsfleet, the TVM starts off showing 100 kph (62 mph) so power has to be eased off before the TVM clears the train for a higher speed. On my cab ride on departure from Stratford, 140 wasn't reached until Wennington Crossovers.

 

[asylumxl]

I really don't see the point in stopping at Stratford at the moment. It's a total waste of time, literally, and nearly negates any gains from the higher speed of the services.

 

[tbtc]

I really don't see the point in stopping at Stratford at the moment. It's a total waste of time, literally, and nearly negates any gains from the higher speed of the services.

Stratford will grow, especially with the DLR extension etc. Stopping there offers something the "classic" services can't (whereas they both compete for the "Kent - London" trade)

 

[MikeWh]

I really don't see the point in stopping at Stratford at the moment. It's a total waste of time, literally, and nearly negates any gains from the higher speed of the services.

+1

I travelled on the preview services before they opened Stratford and it was great. The last time I used the line we waited for 5 minutes at Stratford and were still on-time at St Pancras. I guess the driver must have put his foot down from Ebbsfleet.

 

[atomicdanny]

Stratford will grow, especially with the DLR extension etc. Stopping there offers something the "classic" services can't (whereas they both compete for the "Kent - London" trade)

and its a connection to east anglia (if that counts as a good thing?), which would save some time for some people (instead of going via Liverpool Street and the underground)

 

[Class377/5]

Just so you know, when me and my brother went to film a Javelin leaving St. Pan and went back through the barriers, the staff there said you shouldn't call them Javelins.

You shouldn't call them Javelins because they sometimes miss their targets while their trains hit their targets

I couldn't possibly comment through because I haven't been on a Javelin yet but they do look very smart

The 395 have aquired the nickname Javelin because of something they are planned to do. Seems most people get confused as the shuttle between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras has a name. Javelin. Idea was after the Olympics the units would be nicknamed Javelin but the fact is that during 2012 the 'Javelin service' will actually be a trademark of the Olympics (or the governing body whatever its called).

 

[TGV]

I've had a cab ride in them TGV and the TVM shows 225 so it is a slightly different scale in that respect. On most journeys to work it does 140, on some it does 125-130. Totally depends on the driver. What I can tell you is that because of the gradient profile it is impossible to hold that speed on gradients and speeds will flunctuate quite appreciably.

Good - thanks for clearing that up. We all did wonder!