Jobsworths & Enthusiasts

[EM2]

Just for the record, I did not say there weren't any Muslim enthusiasts. I'm also a bit concerned that you appear to be confusing muslims with islamic extremists - which is where the main threat of terror currently comes from. As has been the entire point of my contribution to this rapidly nauseating thread. If you read my original post, I stated that there were very few ISLAMIC rail enthusiasts ie extremists who happen to like trains. (at least for the love of the hobby)

There is no difference between an Islamic enthusiast and a Muslim enthusiast as Islam is the religion of Muslims.
And there are *plenty* of young white Muslims, who could quite easily carry themselves off as a rail enthusiast, without saying a word. In fact, a good number of enthusiasts I've come across are pretty much monosyllabic, if not silent
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Exactly - they stand out. Whether you understand them or not, you know who they are!

So, if you don't understand genuine 'enthusiast-ese' as many staff don't, and someone comes up and says 'I wanted to bonce the whizz-bang on number 4. Can I have a look at the nub-nuts and get a spang on it?', how are they to know he's *not* a genuine enthusiast?

 

[Ferret]

LMAO!!!

Like I said earlier in the thread though, how does a photo of a train help a terrorist? It proves that trains run on railway lines and that they stop at stations now and then? Well stone the crows, who'd have thought it eh? A 3/4 shot of an HST aint gonna be a fat lot of use to 'em is it?! And you can tell what an enthusiast is fotting just by where his camera is pointing. Tis quite simple - fotting a train = innocent activity. Fotting station nooks and crannies - probably a bit dodgy!!!!

 

[Broken Viking]

So, if you don't understand genuine 'enthusiast-ese' as many staff don't, and someone comes up and says 'I wanted to bonce the whizz-bang on number 4. Can I have a look at the nub-nuts and get a spang on it?', how are they to know he's *not* a genuine enthusiast?

Now I may consider myself a railway enthusiast, but the above sounded like complete gobbledygook to me! hock:
Aside from it suggesting that the enthusiast is interested in whatever's currently at platform 4, the rest is very cryptic to me...Care to post a translation?

Like I said earlier in the thread though, how does a photo of a train help a terrorist? It proves that trains run on railway lines and that they stop at stations now and then? Well stone the crows, who'd have thought it eh?

Well, terrorists could use photos of trains as ways of identifying potential targets for suicide bombers, as evidenced by the Spanish train bombings a few years ago...

...Maybe we could trick Al-Q'ida into actually doing us all a big favour by simply sending them every single photo we have of Class 180 Adelantés, in the hope that they'll eventually "convince" Hull Trains (And everyone else) that the HST is still worth keeping around? hock::razz:
(Of course, this statement is made entirely in jest...And encouraged by the fact that 180s are a pet hate of mine, almost as much as the 458s! )

 

[Ferret]

Well, terrorists could use photos of trains as ways of identifying potential targets for suicide bombers, as evidenced by the Spanish train bombings a few years ago...

Somehow I doubt they used a whole load of train fots to choose their targets. More likely they'd have done dummy runs to find the busiest services and inflict maximum casualties! No photos necessary so no risk of drawing attention to themselves...

 

[dan_atki]

Now I may consider myself a railway enthusiast, but the above sounded like complete gobbledygook to me! hock:
Aside from it suggesting that the enthusiast is interested in whatever's currently at platform 4, the rest is very cryptic to me...Care to post a translation?

I believe it's meant to be gobbledygook at least to us anyway.

I think the point EM2 is making (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that most railway employees aren't used to the sort of parlance that enthusiasts have developed to mean certain things - 'bash' to them might literally mean getting a hammer and hitting a train with it, and it's likely they haven't even heard of most of the words before.

So when a terrorist comes along and uses language from their own semantic field how is the railway employee going to know whether they're talking about trains or something more sinister? I presume 'whizz-bang' means 'bomb' in the above.

It confused you significantly (and even you thought it was about trains) - how would the employee know any different?

 

[jon0844]

I wonder what good a photo of a train, inside or out, would be? Is it because the person doing the 'recon' is passing this photo on to someone else? Showing places to hide a bomb on a train? I'd imagine that once you decide on the train, you simply board and find a suitable spot there and then - not start comparing a photo with the layout (and wondering why the photo of your 365 with nice bomb-friendly luggage racks doesn't match the 317 that is standing in for it).

Or are the photos sent off to someone for the approval of funding to continue with the mission?

In any case, we're crap at stopping these things because after a certain number of months/years, we all go back to being totally unprepared. Then something happens and the police are out in force again, all bins are removed and stop & search starts up. Then it dies down again.

Bins were removed because they could hide bombs. Then we got clear bags, except a bomb could still hide easily inside a Burger King bag or whatever, and then we realised the new threat was from someone CARRYING a bomb on their person. We used to move unattended bags, now we mustn't touch them. And some people want to cause a massive disaster with huge loss of life, others realise that the best way to do something is lots of smaller attacks to get people living in fear (the IRA preferred this, as many small bombs are more effective than one).

It's always a reaction to things that have happened, but the best terrorism is coming up with something unexpected. Flying a plane into a building, carrying a bomb in a rucksack or driving a car into a building are all things we just cannot realistically protect against (well, maybe the plane bit). We generally find ourselves forced to rely on tip offs and intelligence, not stumbling on a terrorist plot because of a dumb terrorist caught in an off-limits part of the station with a diagram of the building!

In recent years, the police have taken a dislike to photography because they've been pictured doing things illegally. It's a major problem for the press who have proper ID and agreements from ACPO and virtually every police force to take photographs in their line of work - so if they still get hassle from officers that think they know the rules better than their bosses, what chance do we have from the railway staff that like to lay down the law?

 

[EM2]

Not quite, dan.
'whoshotjimmi' said that one way of telling an enthusiast is that they speak in a particular way. But if you don't know that jargon, then someone telling you any old guff will sound like they know what they are talking about.

As an example, a friend of mine used to love winding up staff in Dixons. He'd be looking at a stereo, and the salesman would start telling him about the Dolby and the CD-multichanger etc. So my mate would say something like:
'Right. Has it got Tarantino?'
'Er...not sure...'
'OK, well what about Altobelli bass enhancers?'
'Umm...'
'Champignon recording dub-over?'

See what I mean?

So, anyone wanting to pose as an enthusiast can easily make up some odd-sounding jargon and most people would be none the wiser.

 

[dan_atki]

See what I mean?

So, anyone wanting to pose as an enthusiast can easily make up some odd-sounding jargon and most people would be none the wiser.

Ah ha - got it now! Indeed it shows it is easy for anyone to pretend to be an expert on something if the person they are talking to is not an expert - which most employees are not. Staff aren't going to be able to substantiate how legitimate that person is in an instantaneous decision, nor probably at all.

Still, if anyone said 'whizz-bang' to me alarm bells would instantly start ringing in my head!

 

[Oswyntail]

And I would also hazard a guess that, certainly on major stations, the majority of enthusiasts present are not those with the "baggage" at the platform end, but the discreet-looking gentlemen who are standing just a bit too far forward for where their train is going to arrive or depart. Otherwise indistinguishable from 98% of travellers. There is no way of telling a "terrorist" from an "ordinary" person.

 

[Broken Viking]

...Otherwise indistinguishable from 98% of travellers. There is no way of telling a "terrorist" from an "ordinary" person.

Actually, I have to confess that I tend to be nervous whenever I'm travelling on holiday - Especially if part of my journey involves using the Underground. hock:

Being a MetalHead (And a generally scruffy so-and-so) I have rather unruly long hair and a fairly unkempt and moderately long beard...And barring the fact that I don't wear a Turban, people could be forgiven for saying that I look like a white version of Osama Bin-Laden! Add to this the fact that I generally carry all of my luggage in a rather battered and worn 60L rucksack and that I tend to stand on the 'Tube as a matter of course, I do often worry that people might think that I'm there with something other than personal transportation in mind! hock: :?

I don't have any relevant photos to hand on this terminal, but during my recent Rover trip I took a couple of photos of myself at Perth station that show me in my typical travel guise...If I get the time later today, I'll upload a couple to show what I'm on about!