Joining TransPennine (maybe) - Few questions

[Yellabowley]

Thanks again, good to get some ex-police perspectives. Part of the issue is I don’t really hate the police. I’m being pushed to progress but can’t do the interviews so there’s some pressure and stress but I’m getting to the point where I might just say I’m not doing it. At that point though I’m stuck with no scope for better pay and it’s almost like admitting defeat, not that there’s any shame in being a career PC.

As for the pension I was part of the group that took legal action and we have it basically confirmed that we will be going back onto our old pensions (I was on the 1987 scheme) and so my retirement age will go back from 55 to 52. The issue is that there is nothing to stop the government changing it again. It could even end up being worse.

My thinking is that with TPE paying £58,000, I could end up paying my mortgage off early while also having more disposable income. Then when I get to 55 i could be in a position to take early retirement. And of course there’s always progression so the earning potential could even be far greater.

Thanks a lot for the advice though. It’s all food for thought.

 

[Yellabowley]

Thanks again everyone for your advice. Just to let you know I passed stage 1 assessments (apparently TransPennine require enhanced pass standard) so I’m doing something right. Still undecided but I’m edging closer to having a decision to make!

 

[Economist]

Most trainees pass the training and qualify, usually out of a course of 8, between 6 and 8 will make it through. Some of those who don't leave because it's just not for them, though I have known one or two to fall apart at the practical handling stage.

Different railway employers have a different approach to training, there's apparently one or two who are very patient and will allow you to sit the rules and traction exams when you are ready, there's others which will put you through regardless and if you fail you're out. I think most are somewhere in between, most places seem to allow a second attempt. Thankfully, I passed everything first-time and qualified, I know one or two who didn't and were removed from the course they were on. Unless people are kicked out for conduct reasons, there's often the opportunity to apply for another role internally.

You could always complete your time in the police, take the pension at 52 and then apply for a train driving job. A quarter of my driving course were over-50's, as was someone on the previous course, all are now qualified drivers. The railway is one of the least ageist employers out there, I know a driver who qualified at 57 and decided to retire at 70-ish, he enjoyed it and his state pension was much bigger at 70 as opposed to 65.

I've never worked in the police, though there are certainly quite a few ex-police who've made the move to train driving.

 

[Yellabowley]

Cheers,

If I stay in the police until I’m 52 and hit retirement I’m not sure what I would like to do. Probably rest if I’ve been spending my weekend nights scrapping with teenagers for 30 years. Train driving isn’t something I’m desperate for if I’m honest. I’m giving it a go but if it’s anything like the police, that’s probably a good thing. We get some who come through who are just desperate to be a police officer, people who’ve dreamt of it they’re whole lives, watch police programmes on the telly, will take any job in the police to try and get closer to the job and are pretty much obsessed. Often they end up making terrible police officers as they are so difficult to teach due to their preconceptions and the knowledge they believe they already have. I know there are a lot of people who are really passionate about trains and the railway so I’m not sure if you get the same thing.

We’ll see. Stage 2 assessments are in 3 weeks. Thanks again for the advice.

 

[geordieboy88]

Interesting thread. I'm another ex Met copper who now drives trains. And I can definately relate to a lot of what has been discussed and stated previously. I left the job to pursue a completely different career path after 17 years, I wasn't at the point where I hated the job but it was always my intention to leave, even before the pension fiasco. And like a poster above, that career change didn't work out and I was left seriously considering returning to the job after a couple of years out. I hadn't actually ever considered the railway as a career, and I certainly didn't think I'd be able to go straight on as a trainee driver.... just really lucky I guess, right place right time when opportunities were available and I was receptive enough to giving it a go.
As already mentioned, you've already got quite a few transferable skill sets, and certain aptitudes and experience developed through your current role will definately help you throughout selection and training. I put alot of time and effort into each stage and found it not too dissimilar to being back at Hendon (or where ever you County boys and girls go....). I had a really great bunch in my class, and some really good trainers. Same out and about with my DI's, really good bunch of people and very positive.
There are plenty of old Bill out there, and Fire service, and I actually really enjoy my job. Most of the ex services I chat to seem to have the same view, all happy to have made the change.
The great thing you have is the opportunity to give it a try, and if it's not for you, or you don't enjoy it, or you realise you'd rather be back in the old Bill, you generally can rejoin, all be it, you may not get your exact old job back, and could end up somewhere you don't want to be, waiting to try and get a move back to your old nick. But you still have plenty of working years ahead of you, so don't be too concerned about that, i was 40 odd when i left.
There is so much info on this website if you have a good look around, and people on here really do try to provide good advice and are a brilliant resource along the way. You can basically find out enough information to give yourself the best chance of passing each stage, if you put enough time and effort in.
Good luck with whatever you decide

 

[1494]

I am also reading this thread with interest. I have 16 years in the police having served in Kent and currently in Dorset, and I got promoted to sergeant last year.

I am one DMI interview away from a job at SWR in Weymouth. I got a phone call in the last few days telling me that if I pass a DMI on the 18th Feb they are putting me straight onto a course on 20th March. (Medical pass dependent.) Thats crazy that it is come around so quickly!

I have all of the same similar anxieties and questions about leaving the police for the railway, and I also would be terrified of failing rules and handling, but I think i'm going to give it a go. I passed my sergeants exams and got promoted, and have come this far in the recruitment process so i'm thinking I will be ok. Like one of the posters above, I will probably put extra effort into my revision to make sure I pass, as failure would be a disaster.

I got promoted last year and if I leave on 30th March I would have been only one month away from being confirmed as a sergeant having almost completed a years probation. That is how close and stressful the decision is for me!

I also think whilst I am being reverted back to the '87 pension scheme, I don't trust the government not to change it again. It's already changed twice in the 16 years I've been in. It's great that I've got another five years benefits from 2015-2020 on the '87 scheme, but I cant see it lasting.

I'm thinking as long as I can save and put some money in the right places, then I could take earlier retirement from the railway (even if I get a reduced pension) and closer match my police retirement age which would be between 55-60 in the force.

Plus, to be honest I think I would be much happier on the railway, and I would rather work an extra few years in a job I am hopefully going to enjoy, rather than the next 14-24 in a job I don't like anymore.

Does anyone know much about the railway pension scheme, and if police pensions be transferred in? Or would people advise to just freeze the police pension and claim it later at 67?

So many things to think about before making the jump.....

Tom

 

[baz962]

A couple of ex police at my toc , were allowed to transfer in their pension.

 

[ST]

Not sure with your TOC but some only allow a maximum of £100k transfer value. Any morr than this then it stays where it is until you take benefits or transfer elsewhere. Worth asking the specific pension scheme provider of the scheme rules on transfers. Good luck...I am in a similar boat!

 

[paulscott04]

Hi All
Does anyone know what routes drivers from Newcastle sign? Thankyou in advance

 

[Ptrains]

I don't want this to turn into a police pension thread - but it does have implications around future career choices. I've got 19 years in and have made the decision to go - I'm currently sat in the EMR talent pool waiting for a start date.

Our county's top fed rep told us last week that whole pension issue (and court case) is around tapering. Apparently if everyone had been switched onto CARE in 2015 there would have been no age discrimination and no court case. The fed's unofficial view is that everyone will be moved back onto the scheme they signed up for until either 2022 / 2023 (he did say but I can't recall). At that point everyone will be moved onto a newer (potentially less attractive) version of CARE. Those on the 87 scheme may end up with a bill for around 2K, those on 2006 scheme will get a slight refund to allow for the difference in the % we pay in.

This is very much unofficial and other fed reps may have a different view on it, I'm not any sort of expert and just passing on what we were told at a recent training day. The government has not made a decision, or even hinted at what it might do (this is expected in the summer), so It's a tricky situation to assess.

Around pension transfers - I think if you've got more than just a few years it has to stay where it is. As it stands today I intend to leave my 87 scheme as a deferred pension - which will pay out at 60 and I will try and take the 5 years worth of CARE pension with me to EMR as that won't pay out until normal pension age, which is going up to 68.

 

[Efini92]

Cheers,

If I stay in the police until I’m 52 and hit retirement I’m not sure what I would like to do. Probably rest if I’ve been spending my weekend nights scrapping with teenagers for 30 years. Train driving isn’t something I’m desperate for if I’m honest. I’m giving it a go but if it’s anything like the police, that’s probably a good thing. We get some who come through who are just desperate to be a police officer, people who’ve dreamt of it they’re whole lives, watch police programmes on the telly, will take any job in the police to try and get closer to the job and are pretty much obsessed. Often they end up making terrible police officers as they are so difficult to teach due to their preconceptions and the knowledge they believe they already have. I know there are a lot of people who are really passionate about trains and the railway so I’m not sure if you get the same thing.

We’ll see. Stage 2 assessments are in 3 weeks. Thanks again for the advice.

If you’re not that into don’t bother applying. It’s nothing like the police.

 

[class 9]

Hi All
Does anyone know what routes drivers from Newcastle sign? Thankyou in advance

Which company? Northern, LNER or XC?

 

[Atishyou]

Which company? Northern, LNER or XC?

In a TPE thread, I'm guessing TPE!

 

[class 9]

Yeh, fair do’s

 

[dan2610]

I'm currently a serving police officer in a talent pool for GWR and my decision is based more upon person cirumstances. I am much, much younger in service and therefore the pension issue is not one which is going to tie me down. I don't dislike my job, so I'm in no rush to leave, however I'm patiently waiting for the time to come.

In case the original poster has not already made up their mind, I would say base it off what you think will be best for your life and your family outside of work. If you think it might be worth the risk, then I'd say take it. I imagine with the amount TOCs spend on recruiting and putting new drivers through training, they don't want you fail, so as long as you're willing to put in the effort to drag yourself through training I'm sure you'll be ok.

 

[severussnape]

I don't want this to turn into a police pension thread - but it does have implications around future career choices. I've got 19 years in and have made the decision to go - I'm currently sat in the EMR talent pool waiting for a start date.

Our county's top fed rep told us last week that whole pension issue (and court case) is around tapering. Apparently if everyone had been switched onto CARE in 2015 there would have been no age discrimination and no court case. The fed's unofficial view is that everyone will be moved back onto the scheme they signed up for until either 2022 / 2023 (he did say but I can't recall). At that point everyone will be moved onto a newer (potentially less attractive) version of CARE. Those on the 87 scheme may end up with a bill for around 2K, those on 2006 scheme will get a slight refund to allow for the difference in the % we pay in.

This is very much unofficial and other fed reps may have a different view on it, I'm not any sort of expert and just passing on what we were told at a recent training day. The government has not made a decision, or even hinted at what it might do (this is expected in the summer), so It's a tricky situation to assess.

Around pension transfers - I think if you've got more than just a few years it has to stay where it is. As it stands today I intend to leave my 87 scheme as a deferred pension - which will pay out at 60 and I will try and take the 5 years worth of CARE pension with me to EMR as that won't pay out until normal pension age, which is going up to 68.

East mids don't allow transfer pensions in.

 

[Yellabowley]

If you’re not that into don’t bother applying. It’s nothing like the police.

Really? So I do need to be obsessed with trains to be a driver?

Given the helpful replies going before I doubt this comment is representative of the views of the forum. I’m applying as I’m considering a career change, the higher pay and reduced hours are obviously a bonus but it’s a job, from what I’ve read so far, that I believe I can do. The point I’m trying to make is that I’m not desperate. I’m in a decent job with a good team and decent benefits, but it also involves considerable sacrifices. If I get the train driver job then that will be great. If I don’t then I’ll continue on my current path and see what opportunities arise. I guess I’m in a privileged position, a blessing that I don’t take lightly, but I’m putting everything into this application and we’ll see where it goes.

 

[Ptrains]

East mids don't allow transfer pensions in.

That's one less problem to worry about then !!

 

[severussnape]

That's one less problem to worry about then !!

I contacted the rail pensions apparently it's reviewed every 3 years.
I have 14 years fire service pension + 5 years military which was added to the that pension pot. That will be deferred to state pension age. I was really hoping to transfer across to the rail pensions scheme.

 

[ST]

Transfers vary by differing TOCs. Northern allowed a transfer of up to 100k. Not Sure whether this still applies as it is reviewed periodically.

 

[Albagubrath]

Cheers,

If I stay in the police until I’m 52 and hit retirement I’m not sure what I would like to do. Probably rest if I’ve been spending my weekend nights scrapping with teenagers for 30 years. Train driving isn’t something I’m desperate for if I’m honest. I’m giving it a go but if it’s anything like the police, that’s probably a good thing. We get some who come through who are just desperate to be a police officer, people who’ve dreamt of it they’re whole lives, watch police programmes on the telly, will take any job in the police to try and get closer to the job and are pretty much obsessed. Often they end up making terrible police officers as they are so difficult to teach due to their preconceptions and the knowledge they believe they already have. I know there are a lot of people who are really passionate about trains and the railway so I’m not sure if you get the same thing.

We’ll see. Stage 2 assessments are in 3 weeks. Thanks again for the advice.

Even if you do return to the old pension scheme there are very few police officers who can afford to “retire” at 52. Yes your lump sum may be about £125k with an monthly pension of about £1500 for a constable retiring today but it’s not enough nor is it good for your health to do nothing! I know many retired cops who are all back working mon-fri in various security, precognition Officer, customs and excise jobs. The money will quickly run out if you don’t work and bear in mind when you are sitting doing nothing day in day out most of your friends will still be out working so it’s a lonely day!

Why would you not want to move to a job that pays £57k a year to work 3-4 days a week? A company where you pay only 3% of your salary (you currently pay 15% with no company contribution) and the company pay 9%. The option to join Brass to pay more into a private pension scheme if you wish. At your age and with what you could potentially earn over the next 30 years in the railway you police pension will be a pittance compared to what it will be if you move to the railway.

Back to 4 weekly pay where even with your training salary for a year you won’t be far off the measly £2000 a month you currently make as a constable!
In the railway you are almost guaranteed an annual pay rise of anything from 2.5% upwards, the police have been lucky to have that 2.5% in the last 10 years!!
Overtime....work as little or as much rest day working as you want to cover drivers holiday days, sickness etc!

Put the effort in and if you get the job you 100% will never look back and will only wish you joined the railway family years ago!!

 

[Albagubrath]

I am also reading this thread with interest. I have 16 years in the police having served in Kent and currently in Dorset, and I got promoted to sergeant last year.

I am one DMI interview away from a job at SWR in Weymouth. I got a phone call in the last few days telling me that if I pass a DMI on the 18th Feb they are putting me straight onto a course on 20th March. (Medical pass dependent.) Thats crazy that it is come around so quickly!

I have all of the same similar anxieties and questions about leaving the police for the railway, and I also would be terrified of failing rules and handling, but I think i'm going to give it a go. I passed my sergeants exams and got promoted, and have come this far in the recruitment process so i'm thinking I will be ok. Like one of the posters above, I will probably put extra effort into my revision to make sure I pass, as failure would be a disaster.

I got promoted last year and if I leave on 30th March I would have been only one month away from being confirmed as a sergeant having almost completed a years probation. That is how close and stressful the decision is for me!

I also think whilst I am being reverted back to the '87 pension scheme, I don't trust the government not to change it again. It's already changed twice in the 16 years I've been in. It's great that I've got another five years benefits from 2015-2020 on the '87 scheme, but I cant see it lasting.

I'm thinking as long as I can save and put some money in the right places, then I could take earlier retirement from the railway (even if I get a reduced pension) and closer match my police retirement age which would be between 55-60 in the force.

Plus, to be honest I think I would be much happier on the railway, and I would rather work an extra few years in a job I am hopefully going to enjoy, rather than the next 14-24 in a job I don't like anymore.

Does anyone know much about the railway pension scheme, and if police pensions be transferred in? Or would people advise to just freeze the police pension and claim it later at 67?

So many things to think about before making the jump.....

Tom

You 100% CANNOT transfer your police pension into the railway pension scheme. The only pension you can transfer into the railway pension scheme is one from another TOC. Your police pension will be frozen until retirement age.

In the railway You will only pay 3% of your salary into your pension however your TOC will pay a further 6%, unlike the police where you pay the full 15% yourself!!
You can also join BRASS which is done through the railway pensions where you can pay pre tax additional contributions to the BRASS scheme. It’s not like it used to be where BRASS matched your contribution however by starting it early you will massively boost your pension and you get it all back as a lump sum.

Don’t let the Police pension put you off making a decision as the current police pension and also the 1987 one are rubbish compared to what you will make when you retire from the railway! The railway pension is one of not the best pension scheme out there.

 

[1494]

Cheers for the responses on pension, I have confirmed also with SWR they will not allow transfers. Sounds best to start afresh and put some money away in BRASS for extra security.

 

[Albagubrath]

Cheers for the responses on pension, I have confirmed also with SWR they will not allow transfers. Sounds best to start afresh and put some money away in BRASS for extra security.

This is the list of the Companies that allow transfer in of a NON Railway Pension..

• Abellio
• Anglia Railways
• British Transport Police Superannuation Fund
• GER
• LER (West Anglia)
• London Overground
• Northern (ex North East) effective from 1 April 2015
• Northern (ex North West Sections) effective from 1 April 2015
• Southern

 

[theironroad]

You 100% CANNOT transfer your police pension into the railway pension scheme. The only pension you can transfer into the railway pension scheme is one from another TOC. Your police pension will be frozen until retirement age.

In the railway You will only pay 3% of your salary into your pension however your TOC will pay a further 6%, unlike the police where you pay the full 15% yourself!!
You can also join BRASS which is done through the railway pensions where you can pay pre tax additional contributions to the BRASS scheme. It’s not like it used to be where BRASS matched your contribution however by starting it early you will massively boost your pension and you get it all back as a lump sum.

Don’t let the Police pension put you off making a decision as the current police pension and also the 1987 one are rubbish compared to what you will make when you retire from the railway! The railway pension is one of not the best pension scheme out there.

Don't know what TOC you work for, but not aware of any (DRS FOC aside which is linked to BNFL or whatever its called now) staff side only pay 3%. On swr it's about 10-11% (off top of my head) for staff contribution. Your right about the 40/60 spread though with the employer paying 1.5 times the staff contribution.

Railway pensions are under considerable pressure and the scheme as a whole is in £bns deficit. Pension liabilities were behind the franchise fiasco last year which lead to virgin trains and Stagecoach leaving the rail industry. I'm sure a Google will bring up stuff.

 

[theironroad]

Really? So I do need to be obsessed with trains to be a driver?

Given the helpful replies going before I doubt this comment is representative of the views of the forum. I’m applying as I’m considering a career change, the higher pay and reduced hours are obviously a bonus but it’s a job, from what I’ve read so far, that I believe I can do. The point I’m trying to make is that I’m not desperate. I’m in a decent job with a good team and decent benefits, but it also involves considerable sacrifices. If I get the train driver job then that will be great. If I don’t then I’ll continue on my current path and see what opportunities arise. I guess I’m in a privileged position, a blessing that I don’t take lightly, but I’m putting everything into this application and we’ll see where it goes.

No you don't need to be obsessed and as you said in another post, it can sometimes be a detriment. Knowing every type of train ever built isn't going to help you in an interview, probably the opposite, though I wouldn't go in saying I hate trains either lol

I fell into the driving side by accident really and though I was working for the railway at the time, driving was never in my plans. Realistically I probably won't do another full time job as the pay and benefits as a driver are pretty good.

Only thing I'd add, driver (and guard) shifts are not afaik like any other with exception of buses or airlines. I've never been in emergency services but I understand you generally do a fixed start time , so maybe a week of 0600, then 1400 then 2200 or similar so you have a constant start time.

Five early shifts driving could be 0357, 0501,0430, 0620, 0412. not such an issue on late turns, but a pain for sleep patterns on earlies. The start time is worked backwards from the first piece of work your diagram requires . Shift lengths can vary from day to day to. On my TOC a shift can be anything between 6hrs and 9h30 and more if disruption.

Personally, variable shift work with ungodly start times is the main drawback but you deal with it. Obviously being late on duty isn't taken to kindly when their trying to run a train service.

Go for it, you've nothing to lose and as with any job interview you need to do the homework, but don't need to be a encyclopaedia of railway knowledge.

 

[andyccfc]

Just reading this thread with interest. I'm currently in the police have my DMI coming up with West Mids trains, so pass that and I have a big decision to make.

Pension is one of my concerns, is it as good, retirement age etc although I joined the police in 2008 so I am not on the old one and never was (joined the 2006 scheme). My main issue is that when I applied for the driver job start of last year, I was in a rubbish role in the police, wasn't enjoying it etc where as now, I am in quite a favourable role in the police which I quite enjoy at times. However as is the way, these things don't last forever.

Either way, it's a massive career decision to leave the police.

 

[Albagubrath]

Just reading this thread with interest. I'm currently in the police have my DMI coming up with West Mids trains, so pass that and I have a big decision to make.



Pension is one of my concerns, is it as good, retirement age etc although I joined the police in 2008 so I am not on the old one and never was (joined the 2006 scheme). My main issue is that when I applied for the driver job start of last year, I was in a rubbish role in the police, wasn't enjoying it etc where as now, I am in quite a favourable role in the police which I quite enjoy at times. However as is the way, these things don't last forever.

Either way, it's a massive career decision to leave the police.

The Railway Pension is one of the best pensions out there!! Your no doubt paying about 15% of your salary to your police pension which all comes from YOU. Well the Railway Pension you pay 6% with a 9% contribution from your employer!! This means that you have more going into your pension (due to the higher driver salary) and you also have more money in your hand on payday!!
There is the option to join BRASS in the railway pension which lets you pay more money each month into your pension pot which is taken before TAX.

Trust me when I say that no matter what role your currently doing in the police it will not beat the 4 day working week in the Railway!!

There are dozens of Ex Cops in the railway driving trains who all left with 10-15 years service and Iv never spoke to one that has said they have ever looked back and thought they made the wrong choice!! Most say they wished they had left the police sooner!

More money, better pension, 4 day working week, plenty of OT if you want it, brilliant holidays!

An easy decision to make if you ask me!!!

 

[theironroad]

The Railway Pension is one of the best pensions out there!! Your no doubt paying about 15% of your salary to your police pension which all comes from YOU. Well the Railway Pension you pay 6% with a 9% contribution from your employer!! This means that you have more going into your pension (due to the higher driver salary) and you also have more money in your hand on payday!!
There is the option to join BRASS in the railway pension which lets you pay more money each month into your pension pot which is taken before TAX.

Trust me when I say that no matter what role your currently doing in the police it will not beat the 4 day working week in the Railway!!

There are dozens of Ex Cops in the railway driving trains who all left with 10-15 years service and Iv never spoke to one that has said they have ever looked back and thought they made the wrong choice!! Most say they wished they had left the police sooner!

More money, better pension, 4 day working week, plenty of OT if you want it, brilliant holidays!

An easy decision to make if you ask me!!!

Maybe on your TOC employee contribution is only 6%, but that's not standard, ours is in excess of 10%

The railway pension isn't one monolithic scheme. It's an umbrella for over 150 different 'sections' that have arisen since privatisation.

Yes. It's still a good pension scheme but don't think all sections are the same.