jonesy3001
Established Member
Is there a website or link to the new timetables or do you have to wait for the TOCs to publish them on there websites?
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June 2024 Timetable Change
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How long does one have to wait for this so-called 8 minutes service from Watford Junction to Hemel Hempstead? I note they don't include that figure.
I looked it up. A 14:21 arrival has to wait until 14:29 to get a train to Hemel Hempstead. So that is 8 minutes between services. For most though one arrives x23 and the wait is just 6 minutes
Of course, at other times of the day, it is longer.
06:39 arrival and 06:56 departure.
08:20 arrival and 08:29. There is an 08:24 but it's only 4 minutes later.
15:25 arrival and 15:42 departure. There is a 15:29 but they don't allow a 4-minute connection.
17:20 arrival and 17:29 departure.
The 16:19 arrival is good as you can officially catch the 16:24 arrival.
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Definitely. Overcrowding the metro service to HW, where about 5 people get off before GX and where the majority disembark at the penultimate stop, felt illogical.
Moving the HW traffic to the 37 and doing non-stop 45 to BCF results in many more winners than losers.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
You can look at individual schedules on RealTimeTrains or similar or there's the Railway Data website which has provisional June timetables in traditional route table format.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It won't be enforced to those in the know. It'll just mean it isn't shown on the displays at Marylebone so people don't crowd it out.
Ah ok, thanks. Useful to know.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
OTOH if you do encounter that rare revenue team don't put it past them trying a penalty fare...
Yes
4 weeks ago!
ollie_hunt1660
Member
It’s available on RTT, just select a date after 1st of June
dk1
Veteran Member
Not very much has changed apart from speeding & tidying up the Intercity timetable & the 08:00up/17:00dn (SX) running fast between Stratford & Ipswich. The Chelmsford stop has been added to the xx:30up/xx:00dn with the alternate half hour only calling Stratford then Colchester in both directions.
Some slight changes to SX early morning Yarmouth services. It is hoped to rehash the regional timetables (possibly getting towards a 7 day timetable) from May 2025.
CarrotPie
Member
A 7-day timetable?
hexagon789
Veteran Member
I.e. no difference between Mon-Fri, Sat and Sunday - the same service every day.
HamworthyGoods
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I thought the weekend timetable had different calling patterns to satisfy the weekend demand for ‘bird watchers’ using the remote stations.
Llandudno
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Wow!
Could only dream of such things in Wales or Northern land…!
dk1
Veteran Member
From approx 09:00 on Sundays the timetable may be close or the same as Monday to Saturdays. It is very close to it now on Greater Anglia regional routes.
Yes not sure how that will quite work at stations such as Berney Arms, Buckenham & Lakenheath.
We are very lucky that we do not work on voluntary Sunday duties and why we cancel once in a blue moon due to traincrew shortages. Most Sunday rosters are fully covered and have a list of next to call and volunteers requesting to work too.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
And here in Scotland
Or even Guildford, to be quite specific. Although if it was 7 day timetable, there wouldn't be 2 fast trains an hour to Clapham Junction apart from in the early morning and evening peak.And here in Scotland
That will be difficult in the Cambridge/Ely area, where the current Sunday timetable is quite different from Mondays to Saturdays.
That includes Greater Anglia's own Liverpool Street and Norwich-Stansted services.
dk1
Veteran Member
I wonder if things will improve at all on that front following the proposed new East Coast timetable in December. Several things are resting on that.
I’m guessing it’s just to tidy things up a little on some of the more local regional routes.
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Railperf
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From a performance point of view GA's new timetable is a disappointment. Local trains still essentially timed for 321 performance rather than 720's.I'm not seeing any retimings of the GE services.
Not sure I understand the logic in swapping chelmsford stops from the xx:30 Liverpool street to the xx:00. The xx:00 might as well have had a stop inserted because it always has to slow down approaching Witham where it catches up the Braintree service. In fact without retiming any of the existing GE services it might as well have a stop at Stratford too.
The xx:48 Liverpool Street to Braintree service ahead of the xx:00 Norwich could easily have been speeded up a few minutes which would have meant a faster time for the xx;00 to colchester. Bear in mind a good non-stop run is achievable in 40 minutes.
Similarly the xx:30 to Norwich frequently catches up with the xx:18 Liverpool Street to Clacton after Witham, so removing the Chelmsford stop now catches the Clacton earlier and requires pathing time. It could have been better to have kept the Chelmsford stop and improve the timings of the Clacton service.
It looks like a tweaking of dwell times and removing Chelmsford stop is how the xx:30 and it's equivalent return have improved the schedule to Norwich by a few minutes - while sectional running times seem unchanged.
Waiting for LNER timetable change is only crucial for West Anglia to Cambridge and regional / cross country between Stansted and Peterborough
Not sure I understand the logic in swapping chelmsford stops from the xx:30 Liverpool street to the xx:00. The xx:00 might as well have had a stop inserted because it always has to slow down approaching Witham where it catches up the Braintree service. In fact without retiming any of the existing GE services it might as well have a stop at Stratford too.
The xx:48 Liverpool Street to Braintree service ahead of the xx:00 Norwich could easily have been speeded up a few minutes which would have meant a faster time for the xx;00 to colchester. Bear in mind a good non-stop run is achievable in 40 minutes.
Similarly the xx:30 to Norwich frequently catches up with the xx:18 Liverpool Street to Clacton after Witham, so removing the Chelmsford stop now catches the Clacton earlier and requires pathing time. It could have been better to have kept the Chelmsford stop and improve the timings of the Clacton service.
It looks like a tweaking of dwell times and removing Chelmsford stop is how the xx:30 and it's equivalent return have improved the schedule to Norwich by a few minutes - while sectional running times seem unchanged.
Waiting for LNER timetable change is only crucial for West Anglia to Cambridge and regional / cross country between Stansted and Peterborough
They have been retimed for 720s. On the WA they have been on 720 timings since December.
Jamesrob637
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So it should be, at least Sunday afternoon and evening.
Railperf
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There's no apparent reduction in GE timings to Ipswich Southend Braintree or Clacton, where we know a late running service could run by a 360 could gain at least 6 or 7 minutes when running late between Stratford and Colchester. It looks more like a rebadge exercise - no real improvement in overall journey times at all.
I'm guessing that all these copious amounts of excess running time is what keeps Anglia nearer the top of punctuality charts.
In exactly the same way as the various foreign railways that are / used to be viewed enviously for their reliability. A journey time of 40 minutes sounds better than 46. However, there’s a lot to be said for “46 minutes 98% of the time” over “40 minutes on a perfect day - otherwise take your pick of anything with a number that starts with “f” at the front”
Railperf
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No one is suggesting a 40 minute London to Colchester schedule, but a few minutes improvement could be reliably achievable with a modest trimming of some schedules to reflect the superior performance of the 720's. Maybe a trial speeding up of selected off peak services might see how well this works in practice. Peak services are clearly timed slower to fit as many trains south of Shenfield based on a 3 min headway and there seems no solution for that without huge infrastructure expense.
My figures of 40 and 46 were purely “out of the air” - the relevant bit was the 6 minute difference between them.
Adtrainsam
Member
Which actually leads to a downgrade for Chelmsford - Stratford passengers with 5 tph reduced to 4tph. Ideally, both Intercity services per hour should call at Stratford in the off-peak. It's an increasingly popular place to change trains and as a destination.
Railperf
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If we are talking about Liverpool Street to Colchester non-stop then your 'out of the air' figures are very coincidental because 40 mins represents a good clear run, while 46 minutes is the current schedule. The relevant piece of information is why such a disparity over such a short distance. IIRC the French allow 3.5 mins per 100km (62 miles) or 4 min per 100km depending on the type of service.
My French colleague regularly reports on the situation in France, and his experience suggests that services today are slower than the 1970's with shorter trains and lighter loads. But no more reliable. My understanding of the situation is that the slower schedules in France seem to induce a state of lethargy with drivers driving at slower than posted speed limits and a reluctance to use top speed to make up for delays. It also allows the infrastructure operators to delay maintenance on sections of track because they know the schedules can cope with it. Is that a way to run an efficient railway?
From my own experience of the GEML it is late running freight or infrastructure issues that seem to cause most delays plus the odd broken down unit. All this excess recovery time does not seem to improve recovery that much because any disruption usually causes absolute chaos to the timetable.
The freight issue is harder to deal with because most of it is diesel hauled at lowish average speeds that even a London to Colchester stopper can beat. And there are not enough freight loops long or fast enough to put a late running freight train in once it is late.
The current situation seems to lack any ambition with regard to improving journey times. It seems to be being played very very safely.