June 2024 Timetable Change

[duffield]

Extract of the Cross Country Press Release, changing calling patterns, and since when has there been a September timetable change

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This sucks for those of us who change onto/off of XC at Chesterfield to get to/from Nottingham. Chesterfield is a very convenient same platform change when heading north or returning from the north. And those of us from Nottingham will now be staying on between Chesterfield and Sheffield, further overcrowding the already inadequate 2-coach Leeds services. But that's fine for XC, makes it Northern's problem instead.

 

[Bikeman78]

Especially in my experience of using northbound XC services from Basingstoke, the busy section tends to be after Reading & Oxford. Southbound trains tend to empty out at Reading. Unless there is a cruise at Southampton or kickball traffic (Southampton vs team from West Midlands etc)

Has XC done any passenger counts to see how many people are making Basingstoke to Winchester or Winchester to Southampton journeys? Are they proposing to alternately skip Basingstoke and Winchester? If they skip both then they might as well forget any custom from Winchester. Even if they stop at Basingstoke, it is a 40 minute wait for the next train to Winchester.

It is better in the up direction with the Weymouth train departing from Winchester 14 minutes ahead of XC. But that calls the overcrowding argument in to question. The Weymouth is 10 cars long. How many people are going to ignore that and crowd out the Voyager 14 minutes later? It makes no sense.

 

[Adam Evans]

Running a Liverpool-Stalybridge EMU service in the other half-hour would be useful, as Northern did (with DMUs) before any of the wires went up.

Yeah, I'm sure there is space for that. I think they're already planning to extend the Liverpool - MCV peak service to Stalybridge anyway, but it'd be good if it also ran off-peak as well which would give stations east of Huyton a half-hourly service again.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The cynical part of me almost wonders whether this has been engineered by XC as a political play to get the deal for the additional 5x cl.221 units across the line with the DfT. “We’re resorting to it this year, give us what we need or it’ll keep being necessary.”

 

[MasterPhillips]

Will this not just be the case of having say Winchester as Pick Up only northbound to prevent local journeys from Southampton/Bournemouth causing overcrowding.

Similarly Basingstoke could be Set Down only in the southbound direction to stop local journeys to Winchester/Southampton.

 

[scrapthe503]

Will this not just be the case of having say Winchester as Pick Up only northbound to prevent local journeys from Southampton/Bournemouth causing overcrowding.

Similarly Basingstoke could be Set Down only in the southbound direction to stop local journeys to Winchester/Southampton.

They tried this years ago, even doing something as stupid as Oxford pick-up only northbound. Absolutely hopeless - people will just get wise and ignore the restrictions.

 

[Adsy125]

Will this not just be the case of having say Winchester as Pick Up only northbound to prevent local journeys from Southampton/Bournemouth causing overcrowding.

Similarly Basingstoke could be Set Down only in the southbound direction to stop local journeys to Winchester/Southampton.

But the thing is these journeys aren't really problematic. Between Southampton and Bournemouth the trains are very quiet, and tend to slowly fill up until Reading, at which point they get really busy. I think Set Down / Pick Up only would make the most sense in the other direction - Set Down only on trains from Bournemouth, and Pick Up only when heading to Bournemouth. In reality though not calling at all is probably the most likely outcome.

 

[dk1]

But the thing is these journeys aren't really problematic. Between Southampton and Bournemouth the trains are very quiet, and tend to slowly fill up until Reading, at which point they get really busy. I think Set Down / Pick Up only would make the most sense in the other direction - Set Down only on trains from Bournemouth, and Pick Up only when heading to Bournemouth. In reality though not calling at all is probably the most likely outcome.

I wouldn’t expect them to be busy at the end of the route as wouldn’t bode well for the rest of the journey. Lots of students used to board at Brockenhurst & back in the day many continued to Poole.

 

[MasterPhillips]

But the thing is these journeys aren't really problematic. Between Southampton and Bournemouth the trains are very quiet, and tend to slowly fill up until Reading, at which point they get really busy. I think Set Down / Pick Up only would make the most sense in the other direction - Set Down only on trains from Bournemouth, and Pick Up only when heading to Bournemouth. In reality though not calling at all is probably the most likely outcome.

I agree which begs the question why are Basingstoke and Winchester involved in this “trial”.

Im not familiar with the situation in the North, but from experience most trains leaving Reading towards Bournemouth are not full except a few in the peaks. Skipping Basingstoke would of course make it less crowded which I assume is XCs intention. But given it’s only a 20 minute journey from Reading to Basingstoke I can’t see the issue with crowding for that length of time.

 

[FenMan]

Basingstoke is a key interchange for XC customers starting their journeys at all the stations eastwards up to and including Woking. Ditto the return leg.
Likewise, passengers travelling from Salisbury, Andover etc.

To test this, enter a Woking - Oxford or Salisbury - Coventry journey into NRE.

 

[snookertam]

Unfortunately the way many planners rose to the task during Covid has now made a rod for their own back, with everyone thinking planning timetables can be done at the drop of a hat.

This is typical of railway management thinking. It’s why a lot of staff make sure not to try too much.

 

[nw1]

Has XC done any passenger counts to see how many people are making Basingstoke to Winchester or Winchester to Southampton journeys? Are they proposing to alternately skip Basingstoke and Winchester? If they skip both then they might as well forget any custom from Winchester. Even if they stop at Basingstoke, it is a 40 minute wait for the next train to Winchester.

It is better in the up direction with the Weymouth train departing from Winchester 14 minutes ahead of XC. But that calls the overcrowding argument in to question. The Weymouth is 10 cars long. How many people are going to ignore that and crowd out the Voyager 14 minutes later? It makes no sense.

Utterly stupid IMO. XC trains are rarely overcrowded south of Reading, IMX, and you're just removing travel options between Southampton and Winchester/Basingstoke as well as Winchester/Basingstoke and the north. Remember that only one of the two SWR London trains per hour calls at Basingstoke, and the semi-fast SWR no longer runs.

InterCity trains from Bournemouth/Poole have called at Winchester and Basingstoke for as long as I can remember (1983).

Reminiscent of the silly and pointless removal of Brockenhurst stops from XC.

 

[MikeWM]

Great Yarmouth Saturday extras & an early Ipswich-Peterborough Sunday service always finish after the first weekend of September too.

I do wish the latter would run all year around - it makes getting to large swathes of the country (down the ECML etc.) possible on Sundays at a reasonable time. Without it the first train from Ely to Peterborough isn't until 1049, which results in an arrival time rather too late to be practical for various destinations. I'm not sure *why* it only runs May-September, other than 'that's what it has always done'.

 

[dk1]

I do wish the latter would run all year around - it makes getting to large swathes of the country (down the ECML etc.) possible on Sundays at a reasonable time. Without it the first train from Ely to Peterborough isn't until 1049, which results in an arrival time rather too late to be practical for various destinations. I'm not sure *why* it only runs May-September, other than 'that's what it has always done'.

Nobody understands that. It seems historical. Staffing isn't a problem so maybe it's engineering Ely-Peterborough.

 

[306024]

Nobody understands that. It seems historical. Staffing isn't a problem so maybe it's engineering Ely-Peterborough.

It is NR engineering access hours. What they have they hold as they have no incentive to change. GA have been successful in challenging these in the past, this would seem a good case to pursue.

This is typical of railway management thinking. It’s why a lot of staff make sure not to try too much.

More so Government, who were the idealists behind three timetables a year. That didn't last long. As for planning staff not trying too much, I'd simply disagree.

 

[snookertam]

It is NR engineering access hours. What they have they hold as they have no incentive to change. GA have been successful in challenging these in the past, this would seem a good case to pursue.


More so Government, who were the idealists behind three timetables a year. That didn't last long. As for planning staff not trying too much, I'd simply disagree.

Wasn’t suggesting they weren’t trying, apologies if that’s how it came across. More a general comment about what happens when people are taken for granted.

 

[306024]

Wasn’t suggesting they weren’t trying, apologies if that’s how it came across. More a general comment about what happens when people are taken for granted.

Or just how read it, so apologies too. Yes you're right. Certain groups seem to have been taken for granted and sod it would be a natural reaction. Planners, Roster Clerks, and Control are fortunately made of sterner stuff!

 

[Bikeman78]

Utterly stupid IMO. XC trains are rarely overcrowded south of Reading, IMX, and you're just removing travel options between Southampton and Winchester/Basingstoke as well as Winchester/Basingstoke and the north. Remember that only one of the two SWR London trains per hour calls at Basingstoke, and the semi-fast SWR no longer runs.

InterCity trains from Bournemouth/Poole have called at Winchester and Basingstoke for as long as I can remember (1983).

Reminiscent of the silly and pointless removal of Brockenhurst stops from XC.

I've never seen a report on this forum of trains being packed south of Basingstoke. There must be some regular travellers. Makes no sense. They are just making life awkward for people. As you say, without XC, there is only one train per hour from Basingstoke to Winchester.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I've never seen a report on this forum of trains being packed south of Basingstoke. There must be some regular travellers. Makes no sense. They are just making life awkward for people. As you say, without XC, there is only one train per hour from Basingstoke to Winchester.

There’s two trains per hour Basingstoke to Winchester without the XC.

 

[Kite159]

There’s two trains per hour Basingstoke to Winchester without the XC.

Two trains generally within ten minutes of each other then the XC 10 minutes after the Portsmouth train then nothing for 40 minutes until the next Weymouth which calls at Basingstoke.

 

[Bikeman78]

There’s two trains per hour Basingstoke to Winchester without the XC.

My mistake. Still doesn't explain the thinking behind the XC plan. In the down direction, their train is the third in 20 minutes so unlikely to be overwhelmed by people making local journeys.

 

[Southern Dvr]

I suspect that XC will be pulling out of Bournemouth altogether soon enough. Either terminations at Southampton or Reading.

 

[TrainBoy98]

I suspect that XC will be pulling out of Bournemouth altogether soon enough. Either terminations at Southampton or Reading.

They do empty out significantly at Reading, but loadings seem okay at Southampton and the airport, though I guess they would end up running into the capacity issue at Southampton for reversal/turnaround

 

[craigybagel]

I suspect that XC will be pulling out of Bournemouth altogether soon enough. Either terminations at Southampton or Reading.

Given they have a traincrew depot at Bournemouth, and no drivers based between there and Birmingham (only TMs at Reading) I very much doubt it.

 

[swt_passenger]

Given they have a traincrew depot at Bournemouth, and no drivers based between there and Birmingham (only TMs at Reading) I very much doubt it.

Also the middle sidings at Bournemouth are designed for ease of reversing and access for cleaners. It’s a much better location than in a goods loop just west of Southampton Central.

 

[MasterPhillips]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned but GWR are running two London to Swansea services non stop from Paddington to Bristol Parkway. The services being the 16:18 and 19:18 departures from Paddington.

Two additional services will run from Paddington to Bristol Parkway to make up for the lost calls at Reading, Didcot and Swindon. These will leave Paddington before the Swansea services and will be overtaken by it at Reading.

 

[PGAT]

Southern have written a page about why the Hemel Hempstead trains are being removed

https://www.southernrailway.com/travel-information/plan-your-journey/latest-on-our-rail-service

 

[Robski_]

Great Northern are now saying there is only one additional peak Peterborough service in each direction, so the “Runs as required” ones won’t be running.

 

[bramling]

Great Northern are now saying there is only one additional peak Peterborough service in each direction, so the “Runs as required” ones won’t be running.

What a surprise! There never seems to have been the stock for both services. Perhaps something will materialise if the 379s come over in time.

 

[swt_passenger]

The Hemel terminators are missing entirely with some 2 hour gaps. It thus strikes me that they're probably just not in yet - as they're very much the busy peak services I'd be astonished if they were just dropped entirely rather than turning at Watford instead.

The gaps in the SN Watford Junction service are no longer there, the missing paths have been added back in but only as far as Watford. I’d assumed that would probably happen once the decision was finalised, as has now been announced, linked in post #537 by @PGAT