Keolis/Amey to take over Wales and Borders

[Gareth Marston]

If an order is forthcoming specifying ETCS I'm sure they will, yes.

Vivarail are a bit like Yosser Hughes "give us a job mate I can do that"

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It'll be the train of choice if you're in South Liverpool. Also makes it a lot easier to get to Liverpool Airport from Chester + North Wales. Could also be the catalyst to enable the re-opening of Ditton.

Ditton is a complete desert - nothing but industrial sites.
Like Deeside (in another context).

And it would solve one problem - North Wales's closest airport being an absolute pain to get to by public transport. There must be lots of supressed demand there, leading to most people using Manchester.

You still have the awkward and slow bus shuttle from South Parkway to the airport.
Liverpool and Manchester airports also serve different markets.
Most people will continue to use Manchester, because it serves far more destinations and has long haul.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ditton is a complete desert - nothing but industrial sites.

People commute to industrial sites.

 

[8H]

The available rail options for beating the road network between North Wales and Wirral/Merseyside were recklessly abandoned from 1967. Halton Curve is a welcome really hard won plus, but probably just a B+. Only train times that beat road times will be truly transformative. A city region that recognized the importance of the Wirral would help. Semi fast Wrexham Bidston Birkenhead trains seem the easiest gain to make. Four tracking Rock Ferry Hooton again a longer term option. Another idea already floated elsewhere, to to put a terminus station back in Birkenhead connected to the underground would provide capacity for some faster long distance services to get in and out of the city region. If indeed the city region is to mean anything tangible, the regional components must gain too otherwise the city is simply a parasite

 

[topydre]

What's the Welsh phrase for "No Pacers"?

Dim sbwriel

 

[B&I]

Ditton is a complete desert - nothing but industrial sites.
Like Deeside (in another context).



You still have the awkward and slow bus shuttle from South Parkway to the airport.
Liverpool and Manchester airports also serve different markets.
Most people will continue to use Manchester, because it serves far more destinations and has long haul.

Ditton would be a useful parkway for Widnes. And do you think one of the reasons for Manchester Airport's greater success might be its infinitely superior public transport ? There's a degree if chicken and egg going on here

 

[mde]

Dim sbwriel

That more accurately describes ATWs 158 fleet…

 

[aylesbury]

Will the Gerald service continue between Cardiff and the north as it would seem not to fit in to any service patterns?

 

[Llanigraham]

I don't know about the Valleys but in the context of Wales there are a few routes where 230s would fit fairly well as small dedicated locally-maintained and locally-branded microfleets on low-speed branch line services. Conwy Valley and Wrexham-Bidston seem the obvious two in North Wales (probably a single fleet for the two in order to avoid the cost of too many spares), I don't know South Wales as well to come up with ideas there. One other that might work is Machynlleth-Pwllheli if it ceases to be portion worked to allow an all day 4-car Aberystwyth service.

Who will pay for the ERTMS modifications required?
And would they even be possible?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Dim sbwriel

Which is actually "no rubbish"

 

[driver_m]

Ditton is a complete desert - nothing but industrial sites.
Like Deeside (in another context).

There's a very good reason though as to why a park & ride would work there though. Been made aware that there has been a big drop in revenue at Runcorn since the opening of the toll bridge, so obviously, a lot of that business was coming from north of the river. The current setup with Liverpool - Chester is great if you live on the Wirral or the City Centre, but less so for other areas. After all, you wouldn't tell London or Glasgow residents that you can make do with one route between two cities, so why not Liverpool, Chester and surrounding areas? Plus there is a lot of family connections and economic ties between North Wales & Liverpool.

 

[urbophile]

You still have the awkward and slow bus shuttle from South Parkway to the airport.

Not ideal, but it's not far and in the context of a long journey and long check in times it doesn't add much time proportionately. As for awkwardness, at least the bus drops you right outside the terminal at John Lennon. At Manchester you could be faced with a 15 minute walk or more from the station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which is actually "no rubbish"

Precisely

 

[Bletchleyite]

That more accurately describes ATWs 158 fleet…

Oh, come on, they're not that bad. What do you want them to do, fit ironing boards instead of the nice Grammer IC3000s?

 

[mde]

Oh, come on, they're not that bad. What do you want them to do, fit ironing boards instead of the nice Grammer IC3000s?

Of course not

It does have to be said though, the units themselves aren't in the grandest of states… and, even with PRM works done, they still won't be great units for a mobility impaired passenger (the vestibules are very tight for wheelchairs). The latter isn't just a fault of the ATW fleet of course.

 

[craigybagel]

Will the Gerald service continue between Cardiff and the north as it would seem not to fit in to any service patterns?

Thanks to the complete lack of detail provided by Cardiff Bay nobody who is in a position to know is allowed to say so we can only guess..... But between the prestige the service offers the franchise, and the fact that it helps with the WAGs goal of improved links between North Wales and Cardiff (whether they're actually needed or not!) I'd be very surprised if the service is withdrawn. The fleet will either need replacing or refurbishing to meet PRM requirements though - and toilet tanks will need fitting.

 

[mmh]

I'm not sure the Gerald service gives the franchise any prestige. Selfishly I think it's great that the North Wales coast remains one of the last places with loco hauled trains. Realistically though nobody outside Cardiff Bay or railway enthusiasts even know it exists

 

[tgrb]

I'm not sure the Gerald service gives the franchise any prestige. Selfishly I think it's great that the North Wales coast remains one of the last places with loco hauled trains. Realistically though nobody outside Cardiff Bay or railway enthusiasts even know it exists

Planning an ALR involving this sobetter fo it soon - what does an ALR afford you on Gerald does anyone know?

 

[Darandio]

Planning an ALR involving this sobetter fo it soon - what does an ALR afford you on Gerald does anyone know?

That depends. Is it First Class or not?

 

[tgrb]

That depends. Is it First Class or not?

Yes First - sorry that detail would have been helpful!

 

[Dai Corner]

Gerald doesn’t have First Class, he has Business Class (though perhaps Political Class might be more appropriate )

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not sure the Gerald service gives the franchise any prestige. Selfishly I think it's great that the North Wales coast remains one of the last places with loco hauled trains.

Until TPE get theirs...

 

[The Ham]

Seriously? How many 220s do you imagine W&B need? Where would they be maintained? Do you actually think they would be cheaper than alternatives?

I'd say there was less chance of 220s going to Wales than there is of Grayling suddenly announcing extra funds for electrification.

No, I wasn't being serious.

 

[HH]

Don't forget that what was in the ITT may not be what the end position is. There has been a lengthy "negotiation" process, so even what was in the winning bid might have been changed. Possibly that's why they don't want the ITT out there.

However, I expect the plan to be that all trace of Pacers are removed by Jan 2020. I think that will involve a few 230s as well as the above-mentioned 156s and 170s. It's not absolutely necessary, but it's cheaper and easier.

 

[gareth950]

Don't forget that what was in the ITT may not be what the end position is. There has been a lengthy "negotiation" process, so even what was in the winning bid might have been changed. Possibly that's why they don't want the ITT out there.

However, I expect the plan to be that all trace of Pacers are removed by Jan 2020. I think that will involve a few 230s as well as the above-mentioned 156s and 170s. It's not absolutely necessary, but it's cheaper and easier.

That's still no excuse for not releasing the ITT. I'm beginning to wonder whether we'll ever see it and if we do, it will be a heavily redacted version.

 

[Dai Corner]

That's still no excuse for not releasing the ITT. I'm beginning to wonder whether we'll ever see it and if we do, it will be a heavily redacted version.

I think it said something like

We are a small devolved Government with little experience of railways, big ambitions, but shallow pockets.

Please quote for a world-class Metro transit system. It must be electric as we can get EU money for that but there’s some urgency as it must be spent by 2023. We don’t want to spend any money with Network Rail but we think we can hive off the bit shown in red on Map A so that should be where the money is spent. We expect a better one than Manchester. For the avoidance of doubt the recent investment in resignalling and other infrastructure improvements is to be regarded as a sunk cost.


All staff must be reemployed on identical or better terms, though after a decent interval we will meet the costs of generous redundancy or early retirement packages.

A factory has been provided at Newport. Use of this and the maximum proportion of Welsh components in the supply of trams rolling stock is encouraged. There are excellent links to the rail and motorway networks as well as the docks who have experience in importing railway vehicles and have only dropped one.

Planning permission has been obtained for a tram depot at Taffs Well. There is no obligation to build one there of course.

PS There are other railways in Wales and we’d like you to look after them too. Oh, and some in England ”

 

[Gareth Marston]

I think it said something like

We are a small devolved Government with little experience of railways, big ambitions, but shallow pockets.

Please quote for a world-class Metro transit system. It must be electric as we can get EU money for that but there’s some urgency as it must be spent by 2023. We don’t want to spend any money with Network Rail but we think we can hive off the bit shown in red on Map A so that should be where the money is spent. We expect a better one than Manchester. For the avoidance of doubt the recent investment in resignalling and other infrastructure improvements is to be regarded as a sunk cost.


All staff must be reemployed on identical or better terms, though after a decent interval we will meet the costs of generous redundancy or early retirement packages.

A factory has been provided at Newport. Use of this and the maximum proportion of Welsh components in the supply of trams rolling stock is encouraged. There are excellent links to the rail and motorway networks as well as the docks who have experience in importing railway vehicles and have only dropped one.

Planning permission has been obtained for a tram depot at Taffs Well. There is no obligation to build one there of course.

PS There are other railways in Wales and we’d like you to look after them too. Oh, and some in England ”

Oh and by the way there might be some other stuff we discussed but the chap in charge at Transport for Wales has a track record on not keeping records which is why we had to move him from his previous job. Please help us fill the blanks. Hugs and kisses Ken.

 

[Mr Apples]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44229813

I'm loving (not) all the self-congratulation by all those involved in this process. Wasn't Mark Barry the bloke who has come up with all the Metro plans anyway? Sion Barry is another one congratulating WAG on being so secretive.

 

[mmh]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44229813

I'm loving (not) all the self-congratulation by all those involved in this process. Wasn't Mark Barry the bloke who has come up with all the Metro plans anyway? Sion Barry is another one congratulating WAG on being so secretive.

Ugh, what a nauseating love-in. Ludicrous lack of substance in that interview.

"What's going to happen?"
"It's going to be great"
"What's changing?"
"These companies are great"
"When will it happen?"
"It will take time"

Perhaps by "The operators said while the changes would not happen overnight Wales' railway "would be unrecognisable" in five years time" they mean you can't paint all those Pacers a different colour overnight.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The two public interviews the BBC put out on the day of the announcement were really feeble.
They were from Wrexham and Chester (not Cardiff, at least, and not bothered about the Metro).
The former said more trains would be nice, the latter said some of the many closed stations should be reopened (I think he was referring to local stops between Chester and Prestatyn).
And that was all.