Kidderminster to Brighton

[Pumperkin]

Hi,

I am in the early stages of planning a trip to Brighton over a weekend (Fri-Sun) in July. This involves a cross London connection.

I am aware outward journey needs to be done in one go (I think) but you can split the return. As my ticket will incorporate a London bridge to Marylebone tube connection, is this effectively a day ticket for the Underground?

It is my intention to meet my sister in North London and kill a few hours- just trying to work out the best way to do this.

 

[swt_passenger]

The ticket only allows for one journey on LU in each direction, between the appropriate NR/LU interchanges. You can leave at an intermediate LU station if you like, but cannot re-enter LU again.

 

[Pumperkin]

Thanks. Would you suggest just using contact less for the journey North London -> MYB then? Is the route relevant on the underground bit (I.e. logical route would be Jubilee to Waterloo and Bakerloo to MYB - would there be issues if I went rogue and took an entirely different tube?)

 

[Watershed]

Hi,

I am in the early stages of planning a trip to Brighton over a weekend (Fri-Sun) in July. This involves a cross London connection.

I am aware outward journey needs to be done in one go (I think) but you can split the return. As my ticket will incorporate a London bridge to Marylebone tube connection, is this effectively a day ticket for the Underground?

It is my intention to meet my sister in North London and kill a few hours- just trying to work out the best way to do this.

Assuming you're buying an Off-Peak Return of some variety, the outward portion is valid for one day and the return portion is valid for a month. All of the fares in question permit break of journey on both legs, within those durations of validity.

The cross-London transfer validity of the tickets on LU is for one journey in each direction between 'appropriate' LU stations (so if you travel into Marylebone, you could use Marylebone LU or walk to Baker Street). There is no set route you must take, but you must stick to a 'reasonably direct' route. I would suggest that requires staying within the confines of the Circle line 'ring' if going to Victoria, for example.

You may exit intermediately during your cross-London transfer, but if you do so, you forfeit the right to recommence the transfer on that leg of the ticket. In other words, break of journey isn't allowed, but finishing short is.

 

[Hadders]

Exactly what ticket do you hold? And where do you want to travel to?

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks. Would you suggest just using contact less for the journey North London -> MYB then? Is the route relevant on the underground bit (I.e. logical route would be Jubilee to Waterloo and Bakerloo to MYB - would there be issues if I went rogue and took an entirely different tube?)

In practice the LU ticket gates don’t know if you’re on the right route for your mainline journey or not. Theres a list of interchange stations on the National Rail enquiries site here:

Travelling in London | National Rail

Whether you’re travelling to, from, or in and around London by train, we can help you find the best routes and prices for your journey.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[alistairlees]

Thanks. Would you suggest just using contact less for the journey North London -> MYB then? Is the route relevant on the underground bit (I.e. logical route would be Jubilee to Waterloo and Bakerloo to MYB - would there be issues if I went rogue and took an entirely different tube?)

One journey in each direction that is from one of the interchange stations to another (or, as earlier said, alighting en route).

The 'interchange stations' are not just the London Terminal stations like Marylebone. The list is on National Rail. I suggest you do not go particularly off route, however - it is not clear what you mean by "North London". If you were a bit less vague then clearer advice could be given.

 

[Pumperkin]

Hi sorry for vagueness. Essentially going to Brighton, would be going straight there so will stick to sensible route on underground. Coming back, would potentially be going to Wood Green.

I am guessing here, but would the sensible thing to do be to take the Jubilee to Green Park, exit the station on my NR ticket, then use contactless for getting around London until resuming NR journey at Marylebone?

Ticket will be a Super Off Peak return from Kidderminster to Brighton, permitting travel within certain times are London on the Friday (Chiltern Railways + connections I think?)

 

[Hadders]

I am guessing here, but would the sensible thing to do be to take the Jubilee to Green Park, exit the station on my NR ticket, then use contactless for getting around London until resuming NR journey at Marylebone?

No point unless you specifically want to travel and exit at Green Park. The cost of contactless travel from Green Park is the same as from Victoria or London Bridge.

It’s not exactly clear if you want to travel round central London or just go from Brighton to Wood Green to see your sister and then to Marylebone.

If you’re just going to Wood Green then I’d take a Thameslink train from Brighton to St Pancras (which is valid on your Kidderminster to Brighton ticket) and then use contactless on the Piccadilly Line from Kings Cross St Pancras to Wood Green.

Then use contactless from Wood Green to Baker Street (change at Kings Cross St Pancras) which is a short walk to Marylebone.

 

[Pumperkin]

Ahh great thank you.

I have just seen that outbound service London - Brighton is actually from Victoria. Am I ok to enter underground at Baker Street (nice cafe near there I'd like to have brunch at)? Not sure if ticket will work to start late at Baker Street or do I walk back to Marylebone to then go through Baker St en route to change at Oxford Circus?

 

[Hadders]

Baker Street is absolutely fine. It’s a recognised underground interchange for Marylebone.

 

[Pumperkin]

Perfect thank you

 

[JB_B]

... All of the fares in question permit break of journey on both legs, within those durations of validity...

Are you sure it's all of them? I think the OP will be using https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=KID&dest=BTN&rte=363&ldn=1&tkt=OPR which AFAICS forbids break of journey outbound.

 

[Watershed]

Are you sure it's all of them? I think the OP will be using https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=KID&dest=BTN&rte=363&ldn=1&tkt=OPR which AFAICS forbids break of journey outbound.

Yes, I'm sure.

The 'prohibition' shown in BRFares is due to the fact that London Midland, and now West Midlands Trains, restrict break of journey on their cheap dedicated fares, for which they created ticket type OPR (which, confusingly, is a Super Off-Peak Return!). Therefore, the 'BoJ prohibited' flag in the fares data is merely intended to repeat what the restriction code text says.

Chiltern simply used the same ticket type code - but there has never been any restriction included in the Chiltern restriction codes.

What passengers are told when buying a ticket is what matters, and in this case they will be told that they're buying a Super Off-Peak Return, and that break of journey is permitted unless otherwise stated in the restriction code. The restriction code won't reference any restrictions and hence none are in place.

 

[Pumperkin]

Hi just for clarity, if I get off at Marylebone, enjoy brunch/lunch near Baker St, then carry on journey to Brighton, there will be no issue when though I may well have missed a train out (from what I can see, Victoria - Brighton trains are plentiful)

 

[Watershed]

Hi just for clarity, if I get off at Marylebone, enjoy brunch/lunch near Baker St, then carry on journey to Brighton, there will be no issue when though I may well have missed a train out (from what I can see, Victoria - Brighton trains are plentiful)

Yes, that's absolutely fine.

 

[Pumperkin]

Hi thought it would be best to resurrect this thread as it's for this journey.

I'm trying to sort the tickets out - it's for 15th - 17th July.

I can see the fare should be £58.60 (going via Birmingham and High Wycombe). However, when I input to Trainsplit (I like this site for train bookings, whether it does a split or not), it's putting the price up to £64.51 (it seems to be forcing some advances, even though the Super Off Peak Return is cheaper.

How do I circumvent this? I'd rather have an official itinerary so don't really just want to buy once from the machine on the day.

Also, is it possible to force a delay into the London connection with an itinerary? Ideally, I'd want about an hour on the way there, and 3 hours on the way back. Any ideas?

 

[JB_B]

If you add High Wycombe as a via point under advanced options and (if necessary) select "Flexible" and "Cheap" when you get to the grid of fares then you should see the expected £58.60 super off peak return (assuming no railcard.)


If that doesn't help, check your outbound times meet the restrictions for that ticket on the Friday: not valid on trains timed to arrive at London Marylebone after 04:29 and before 11:30.

 

[Jason12]

If searching for the Super Offpeak fares via High Wycombe with restriction code PV, you may have difficulty due to a bug/feature of the way the restriction is coded/implemented by booking engines. The fastest itineraries from Kidderminster to Brighton via High Wycombe typically include Gatwick Express from Victoria to Brighton. But the Super Offpeak fare is not being offered for these itineraries. You need to employ some kind of workaround such as avoiding Victoria or excluding Gatwick Express, or if using Trainsplit, selecting Cheapest to get slower itineraries for which the Super Offpeak is offered.

 

[Pumperkin]

Thanks all. Have managed to get an Advance return for £51 (a modest but appreciated saving on the £58.60 SOPR).

It is shown as 2 single advance tickets - does that mean I am bound to catch all trains on the times specified, or is it more likely to actually be a single advance bit Birmingham to London bookended by two "suitable trains".

OK either way, but would be nice to know if I want to escape Brighton early on the Sunday, that this is permissable. As it happens, my planned layover in London is now not a necessary part of the itinerary, but may still feature if allowed.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Thanks all. Have managed to get an Advance return for £51 (a modest but appreciated saving on the £58.60 SOPR).

It is shown as 2 single advance tickets - does that mean I am bound to catch all trains on the times specified, or is it more likely to actually be a single advance bit Birmingham to London bookended by two "suitable trains".

OK either way, but would be nice to know if I want to escape Brighton early on the Sunday, that this is permissable. As it happens, my planned layover in London is now not a necessary part of the itinerary, but may still feature if allowed.

Without knowing exactly what your tickets say, Advance Singles book you on a specific train, and are not valid on any other service.

 

[Jason12]

Have you got the tickets/reservation coupons?? If so it should be clear which parts of the journey are "booked train only" and which are using "appropriate connecting services". Without sight of the tickets you've got it's difficult to say more.

If you're thinking of a "layover" in London, that's unlikely to be allowed, as apart from the "booked train only" aspect of advance tickets they are aren't vaild for break of journey at intermediate stations, whether or not you are using "connecting services". Of course the cross-London part of your journey provides some kind of leeway on which "connecting services" may be "appropriate". If you have a happy go lucky attitude, by all means push the limits, but if you want to play it safe stick to the itinerary you chose when you bought the ticket(s).

 

[Haywain]

Have managed to get an Advance return for £51 (a modest but appreciated saving on the £58.60 SOPR).

OK either way, but would be nice to know if I want to escape Brighton early on the Sunday, that this is permissable. As it happens, my planned layover in London is now not a necessary part of the itinerary, but may still feature if allowed.

Is that saving of £7.60 really worth it for the loss of the flexibility you apparently want?

 

[Jason12]

Is that saving of £7.60 really worth it for the loss of the flexibility you apparently want?

Only the person buying the tickets can decide what £7.60 is worth - to them - in terms of the loss of flexibility. But buying the tickets and only then asking "what have I bought", can I do this, may I do that - is not the approach I would recommend.

I suggest that from what the OP has said, the flexible, super offpeak option would actually have been the best for them. But the problem with booking the super offpeak tickets online is that the booking engines direct you to the slightly faster itineraries (using GTX services) where they are not deemed to be valid. Perhaps in this case, that has pushed the OP to buy advances which are not as suitable for their plans, as the super offpeak would have been. If only the booking sites(s) had offered them.

 

[Watershed]

Only the person buying the tickets can decide what £7.60 is worth - to them - in terms of the loss of flexibility. But buying the tickets and only then asking "what have I bought", can I do this, may I do that - is not the approach I would recommend.

I suggest that from what the OP has said, the flexible, super offpeak option would actually have been the best for them. But the problem with booking the super offpeak tickets online is that the booking engines direct you to the slightly faster itineraries (using GTX services) where they are not deemed to be valid. Perhaps in this case, that has pushed the OP to buy advances which are not as suitable for their plans, as the super offpeak would have been. If only the booking sites(s) had offered them.

Failing to offer the Super Off-Peak ticket on Gatwick Express branded services is yet another unacceptable example of overcharging. Obviously in this case it's likely to result in rather fewer people being overcharged than the main Gatwick <-> London flow but it's still highly concerning.

 

[Jason12]

Failing to offer the Super Off-Peak ticket on Gatwick Express branded services is yet another unacceptable example of overcharging. Obviously in this case it's likely to result in rather fewer people being overcharged than the main Gatwick <-> London flow but it's still highly concerning.

In this case, I don't think the OP has been overcharged, but by a combination of factors, they have been eventually been sold a ticket which is not the one they really wanted to purchase.

 

[Watershed]

In this case, I don't think the OP has been overcharged, but by a combination of factors, they have been eventually been sold a ticket which is not the one they really wanted to purchase.

I think they are aware of the trade-off they're making (it's certainly not one I'd be making, but YMMV). But the fact that the flexible Super Off-Peak Return won't have been shown as available on itineraries involving GX services certainly wouldn't have helped them come to an informed decision.

 

[yorkie]

Thanks all. Have managed to get an Advance return for £51 (a modest but appreciated saving on the £58.60 SOPR).

It is shown as 2 single advance tickets - does that mean I am bound to catch all trains on the times specified, or is it more likely to actually be a single advance bit Birmingham to London bookended by two "suitable trains".

OK either way, but would be nice to know if I want to escape Brighton early on the Sunday, that this is permissable. As it happens, my planned layover in London is now not a necessary part of the itinerary, but may still feature if allowed.

What's your itinerary and what ticket(s) do you have?

Yes, as a general rule, you should stick to the trains stated in your itinerary.

Is that saving of £7.60 really worth it for the loss of the flexibility you apparently want?

Unlikely, unless travel is at a time which would not be allowed by the Super Off Peak Return (OPR)

 

[Pumperkin]

Thanks all for your comments. I think I will stick to the itinerary.

Yes, part of my motivation was the £51 was a nice simple itinerary and the chances of me wanting to spend extra time in London are slim so thought it was worth it for 1.5 (optimistic?) pints.

I bought the tickets through Trainsplit but won't see the physical one until I do TOD.

 

[yorkie]

Depending on what is printed on the ticket there might be a little bit of leeway, maybe. But yes in general, stick to the itinerary to be safe. We can advise in more detail once the details are known.