• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Kings Cross ‘uncrossed’ Layout/Remodelling - Information and Updates

Status
Not open for further replies.

davetheguard

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
1,819
I wonder what effect last night's gales & heavy rain will have caused to this -and other- Network Rail Christmas engineering work projects? Hopefully nothing will get seriously put back as a result of the weather conditions.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

800001

Established Member
Joined
24 Oct 2015
Messages
3,793
All running to schedule on the ECML
I wonder what effect last night's gales & heavy rain will have caused to this -and other- Network Rail Christmas engineering work projects? Hopefully nothing will get seriously put back as a result of the weather conditions.
 

Hadders

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
13,481
Some interesting observations from Stevenage station:

  • Lots of blue hi-viz 'helpers' for passengers
  • Plastic crowd control barriers had been put in place at the station overnight to manage the expected crowds which never materialised - it was much quieter than a normal Sunday
  • LNER were starting some northbound services from Platform 1 (I've not seen a northbound service start from P1 before)
  • Thameslink were running trains from Blackfriars to Peterborough running non-stop between Stevenage and Peterborough in just 35 minutes!
  • LNER are advertising that Kings Cross is closed and saying 'do not travel to London'. LNER trains are terminating at Stevenage or Peterborough and from these station there is a frequent Thameslink service to London (with some Thameslink trains running non-stop). Not sure that the 'do not travel to London message is justified'
  • Some Thameslink trains were terminating at Finsbury Park which meant that passengers had to hoof it round the local streets to enter the Underground station due to the ridiculous one-way system in place. It would have been better to have directed them to the Moorgate trains to Highbury & Islington for a cross-platform interchange to the Victoria Line
 

InOban

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2017
Messages
4,232
The pictures being tweeted show that the major work this season relates to the replacement of the Camden sewer, described as fragile. I take it that Thames Water is paying for at least some of this?
 

Scotrail88

Member
Joined
21 Jul 2014
Messages
320
Apologies if previously noted but what was the speed restricted to due to the sewer and the proposed speed once completed.
I presume the speed will increase from completion this weekend.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
Apologies if previously noted but what was the speed restricted to due to the sewer and the proposed speed once completed.
I presume the speed will increase from completion this weekend.

No, I'd guess you'd need to reposition signals etc first to account for different braking distances, sighting, etc.
 

MarkyT

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2012
Messages
6,404
Location
Torbay
Apologies if previously noted but what was the speed restricted to due to the sewer and the proposed speed once completed.
I presume the speed will increase from completion this weekend.
No, I'd guess you'd need to reposition signals etc first to account for different braking distances, sighting, etc.
In the 1970s layout, a 'blanket' 15mph restriction applies on all lines from a location within Gasworks tunnel through the entire throat in both directions. A key aspiration of the project is to increase this, but I don't know what the new speed will be. I expect it will be a similar blanket restriction, probably in the order of 25mph. The pre 70's layout was limited to 8mph throughout IIRC!
 

Mcq

Member
Joined
24 May 2019
Messages
367
Will the two extra tracks through Gassworks tunnel be operational before the end of the project - whenever that might be? Noted that platforms 1-6 were blocked until yesterday I think - now it's 7-11
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,442
Will the two extra tracks through Gassworks tunnel be operational before the end of the project - whenever that might be? Noted that platforms 1-6 were blocked until yesterday I think - now it's 7-11

Yes, use of the new lines starts during the main works from Feb - June, I forget the precise date. But it’s before the end of the main works.
 
Last edited:

whoosh

Established Member
Joined
3 Sep 2008
Messages
1,402
At the moment:

Inward (Up direction): 40mph or 45mph depending what line, until about ⅔ through Gas Works Tunnel, then 15mph.

Outward (Down direction): 15mph until about ⅓ through Gas Works Tunnel, then 30mph, 40mph or 45mph depending which line.


After remodelling:

Inward: Instead of the 15mph ⅔ through Gas Works, it's 20 at the station end of Gas Works.

Outward: 25mph then 40mph, 45mph or 55mph at the station end of Gas Works Tunnel. 55 is for the fast lines, so will be a much quicker getaway.

The exception is platforms 9 and 10, the remaining shorter suburban platforms, which are still 15mph out. However, they will still benefit from the 40mph being placed at the start of Gas Works Tunnel rather about a ⅓ of the way into it.

Also some signals are being repositioned. When I say that, I mean the signalling sections themselves will be different in places, and combined with the speed changes should result in a faster throughput of trains.
 
Last edited:

Scotrail88

Member
Joined
21 Jul 2014
Messages
320
At the moment:

Inward (Up direction): 40mph or 45mph depending what line, until about ⅔ through Gas Works Tunnel, then 15mph.

Outward (Down direction): 15mph until about ⅓ through Gas Works Tunnel, then 30mph, 40mph or 45mph depending which line.


After remodelling:

Inward: Instead of the 15mph ⅔ through Gas Works, it's 20 at the station end of Gas Works.

Outward: 25mph then 40mph, 45mph or 55mph at the station end of Gas Works Tunnel. 55 is for the fast lines, so will be a much quicker getaway.

The exception is platforms 9 and 10 (the remaining shorter suburban platforms which are still 15mph in and out).

Also some signals are being repositioned. When I say that, I mean the signalling sections themselves will be different in places, and combined with the speed changes should result in a faster throughput of trains.
Thanks - certainly some sizeable increases here.

Are we still on for improved timetables for this soon to take advantage of this and other ECML works. Suppose north of Newcastle still an issue with power supply
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,442
Are we still on for improved timetables for this soon to take advantage of this and other ECML works.

That depends on your definition of ‘improved’.

Reduced sectional running times to take advantage of the new trains? Yes
Reduced sectional running times at Kings Cross to take advantage of the new layout? Yes
Reduced journey times on key flows? Possibly, depending on stopping patterns and interaction with other services.
More services? Well that’s the big question.

May 22 at the earliest.
 

waverley47

Member
Joined
17 Apr 2015
Messages
516
A combination of Werrington and Kings Cross should lead to an extra fast path every hour as far as Doncaster, each train saving 2mins or so of time.

The ECTS rollout and power supply upgrades should do the rest.

Timetable wise I think the big one is still December 21, so we shall have to wait for the big recast. (Note this included everything as far as King's Lynn on the suburban side, so it's going to be a full rewrite.

The extra paths should be there, but as Bald Rick said, without extra trains to run them, or extra platforms at Leeds for example for them to go to, all that's going to be felt are marginal increases in speed.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,495
Location
Bolton
The extra paths should be there, but as Bald Rick said, without extra trains to run them, or extra platforms at Leeds for example for them to go to, all that's going to be felt are marginal increases in speed.
There's also the small matter of there being enough travellers, and from those (or potentially from somewhere else, but...) enough money, to run any extra services.
 

59CosG95

Established Member
Joined
18 Aug 2013
Messages
6,524
Location
Between Peterborough & Bedlington
A combination of Werrington and Kings Cross should lead to an extra fast path every hour as far as Doncaster, each train saving 2mins or so of time.

The ECTS rollout and power supply upgrades should do the rest.

Timetable wise I think the big one is still December 21, so we shall have to wait for the big recast. (Note this included everything as far as King's Lynn on the suburban side, so it's going to be a full rewrite.

The extra paths should be there, but as Bald Rick said, without extra trains to run them, or extra platforms at Leeds for example for them to go to, all that's going to be felt are marginal increases in speed.
I thought it was an extra 2tph each way, but it could be just 2tph total.
Still not sure if the proposed 4-tracking of Huntingdon - Woodwalton is going ahead either. That certainly won't be completed this year regardless.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,901
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
A combination of Werrington and Kings Cross should lead to an extra fast path every hour as far as Doncaster, each train saving 2mins or so of time.

The ECTS rollout and power supply upgrades should do the rest.

Timetable wise I think the big one is still December 21, so we shall have to wait for the big recast. (Note this included everything as far as King's Lynn on the suburban side, so it's going to be a full rewrite.

The extra paths should be there, but as Bald Rick said, without extra trains to run them, or extra platforms at Leeds for example for them to go to, all that's going to be felt are marginal increases in speed.

I presume the Thameslink paths will remain relatively set in stone? Or at least the timings when they enter and leave the core?
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
5,215
I presume the Thameslink paths will remain relatively set in stone? Or at least the timings when they enter and leave the core?
In my experience they tend to vary by 5 minutes or so from day to day. Not sure you'd even notice a timetable recast in there.
 

waverley47

Member
Joined
17 Apr 2015
Messages
516
Collectively, there have been/are taking place quite a few big infrastructure investments across the route in the last few years, such as King's Lynn platform extensions, the platform at Stevenage, the new platform and associated shuffle at Leeds, Werrington, King's Cross ect.

The Dec 21 timetable rewrite basically starts from scratch with everything from Kings Cross upwards. Thameslink has to exit and leave the core at x time, the remodelling of the throat doesn't affect the Thameslink timetable inside the core, only the timetable up the ECML. The timetable on the Liverpool Street - Cambridge runs and that part of the GEML is also being rewritten in conjunction.

As 59 pointed out, it's actually 2 extra paths in each direction every hour* unlocked by a combination of Werrington and Kings Cross. These come from the speed into and out of the throat, and the removal of crossing moves of container trains from the Spalding line across the ECML to Ely.

The four tracking is extra I think, and even then probably won't impact passenger services that much. That's been talked about for years, but still not sure anything has been approved. The ECTS rollout again is extra, but that's another five years away from completion at least.

* The two extra paths. Ofc, this is rolling stock and demand depending, but somewhere in this thread there was the proposed LNER timetable post improvements. I think 0.5 extra to Leeds and Newcastle was talked about, but idk about the other. It's likely that if Grand Central/Hull Trains/East Coast Trains fold, these services will be absorbed into LNER in some way and will also result in a timetable rejig.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,623
I thought it was an extra 2tph each way, but it could be just 2tph total.
Still not sure if the proposed 4-tracking of Huntingdon - Woodwalton is going ahead either. That certainly won't be completed this year regardless.
The “outputs“ of the entire ECML Programme, as defined in the last CP5 enhancements plan summary in March 2019 were:

“An increase in capacity from 6 to 8 Long Distance High Speed services (LDHS) between London King’s Cross and Doncaster and from 5 to 6 LDHS paths between Doncaster and Newcastle per hour;”

“Maintaining 2 freight tph, using diversionary routes as far as practicable;”

“A reduction in journey times for the fastest LDHS services to 4 hours from London to/from Edinburgh and 2 hours to/from London to Leeds.”


Kings Cross remodelling is only one of about a dozen separate components.
 

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
7,451
Many thanks
The old sewer crosses the tracks diagonally slightly further south than the new perpendicular alignment. The remains of the old sewer will be removed when the track above (that wasn't temporarily lifted) is replaced soon.
 
Last edited:

Mcq

Member
Joined
24 May 2019
Messages
367
Another major closure this weekend of KX to Gorden Hill etc - knowing how much latent expertise this forum has - can anyone inform as to what is being accomplished this weekend please.
Also I understand that KX signalling is moving to York ROC - sone already has - but writeups suggest that the KX box needs to be demolished to enable the additional tracks through Gasworks tunnel (E).
If so presumably the remaining signalling must be moving to York soon - has anyone got the dates please - thanks.
 

Mcq

Member
Joined
24 May 2019
Messages
367
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top