Labour MP murdered in shooting/stabbing incident

[TheKnightWho]

Not so much having a bee in your bonnet, more having a whole swarm in your bearskin.

I wasn't aware that calling out hypocrisy was a bad thing.

 

[Senex]

Pre-September 11 you could have said most terrorist attacks in Europe were carried out by people who would call themselves Catholics but they weren't reported like that - it was usually the IRA or ETA who were reported as being responsible. Yet when al-Qaeada or the ISIS are responsible people want to blame Muslims and eastern culture in general.

But surely neither the IRA nor ETA was in the habit of claiming to be doing things for the Church of Rome or for the greater glory of God, so there was no reason for a report assigning responsibility to any particular faith?

If you want to compare with previous terrorist activity then why not compare with the Gunpowder Plot? Guy Fawkes was seen as being the person responsible but a lot of historians find it almost impossible to believe that there weren't more people like him who he worked with.

I thought that for a long time now it has been generally known there was quite a group of people involved and that Fawkes was no lone terrorist. However, he was the one who was caught on the spot and therefore the one whose name inevitably got assigned to the plot. Most of the rest were picked up pretty soon afterwards. (I wonder how English history might have been different had Lord Mounteagle not been warned to stay away.)

 

[Groningen]

Maybe this single loser can keep England in the EU.

 

[Antman]

His 'name', Antman

Well yes but if he had claimed to be David Cameron would that link him to the conservative party?

 

[Gutfright]

Maybe this single loser can keep England in the EU.

It would be bitterly ironic if he did.

Britain currently has zero far-right MPs.

The EU, by contrast, funds the far right with millions of Euros and allows them a say over how the UK is run.

In June, far-right parties in the European Parliament announced the formation of a political group called the Europe of Nations and Freedoms (ENL) Group under the leadership of France's National Front. Establishing such a group—which gives the parties more staff, access to E.U. funds (at least 3 million Euros per year) and the right to initiate certain activities—requires at least 25 members from seven nations. In addition to the National Front, the ENL includes members from the Dutch Party for Freedom, Austria's Freedom Party, Italy's Northern League, the Belgian Flemish Interest Party, Poland’s Congress of the New Right and the United Romania Party, as well as a former member of Britain’s UKIP party.

 

[Antman]

Maybe this single loser can keep England in the EU.

Clutching at straws aren't you?

I fail to see how this horrific murder will make one jot of difference to the way people vote.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Clutching at straws aren't you?

I fail to see how this horrific murder will make one jot of difference to the way people vote.

Given Farage's most recent poster - which is unabashedly racist - was published hours before her death, and she was an MP known for her support for migrants in the most recent crisis, it doesn't take a genius to tie the strands together.

 

[jon0844]

http://newsthump.com/2016/06/18/dif...-of-mental-illness-identified-as-skin-colour/

 

[ExRes]

http://newsthump.com/2016/06/18/dif...-of-mental-illness-identified-as-skin-colour/

I'm not really sure why you've put this link on here other than as a piece of light hearted banter, personally I like the "Can I stay up here, it sounds really **** down there, asks Tim Peake" headline, the "Calls for UN to provide humanitarian aid to Southern Rail passengers" is obviously an indication of their journalistic intentions

 

[jon0844]

Well yes but if he had claimed to be David Cameron would that link him to the conservative party?

And? He didn't say that did he?
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I'm not really sure why you've put this link on here other than as a piece of light hearted banter, personally I like the "Can I stay up here, it sounds really **** down there, asks Tim Peake" headline, the "Calls for UN to provide humanitarian aid to Southern Rail passengers" is obviously an indication of their journalistic intentions

It was light hearted, but does show a serious point - namely The Sun and others so keen to make sure not to show any link with (extreme) right wing views, and especially not any link to anything remotely 'leave' related.

 

[EM2]

You were doing ok until you wrote that, but trying to score cheap political points at this time is not worthy.
This tragic incident is similar to the Leytonstone tube station one ie : Mental case attacks somebody, shouts something and everybody calls it terrorism, except it wasn't.

Why do many people seem to think that the accused cannot have mental issues and have political issues at the same time?
It seems to be 'it's not political, he's mentally ill'. Why can it not be both?

 

[Darandio]

Well yes but if he had claimed to be David Cameron would that link him to the conservative party?

If someone claimed the earth wasn't flat I bet you would still argue the toss.

 

[Antman]

If someone claimed the earth wasn't flat I bet you would still argue the toss.

Another worthwhile contribution:roll:
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And? He didn't say that did he?
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It was light hearted, but does show a serious point - namely The Sun and others so keen to make sure not to show any link with (extreme) right wing views, and especially not any link to anything remotely 'leave' related.

Quite honestly I wouldn't take too much notice of what he said.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Another worthwhile contribution:roll:

Given you never respond to anything with substance, this really is a case of the pot and the kettle. Indeed, you actively ignore those who you can't stand up to or bully.
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Quite honestly I wouldn't take too much notice of what he said.

And why would that be? I don't remember you saying something similar after Islamic terrorism.

 

[Darandio]

Quite honestly I wouldn't take too much notice of what he said.

Really? Someone gives their name as 'Death to traitors, freedom for Britain' and you shouldn't take too much notice?

And yes, pot and kettle do spring to mind here as well.

 

[Antman]

Really? Someone gives their name as 'Death to traitors, freedom for Britain' and you shouldn't take too much notice?

And yes, pot and kettle do spring to mind here as well.

The bloke is mentally ill.

 

[Gutfright]

It was light hearted, but does show a serious point - namely The Sun and others so keen to make sure not to show any link with (extreme) right wing views, and especially not any link to anything remotely 'leave' related.

The leave campaign in general have been hesitant to make political capital out of Jo Cox's death. The remain side have had no such inhibitions.

The terrible irony of this is that we may end up with continuing with a situation where UK taxpayers are forced by the EU to fund far-right parties to the tune of €17.5 million, where the far-right has a say over how Britain is run despite the fact that the British electorate has soundly rejected right-wing extremism, and where a Hungarian Jobbik voter has nearly twice the voting power of UK voters in the European parliament.

 

[TheKnightWho]

The bloke is mentally ill.

Did you find out whether any of those who committed Islamic terrorism were mentally ill?

If he'd declared that Jo Cox was an alien from planet Zog, you might have a point that he was acting in isolation. He didn't, and evidently wasn't acting without influence from the outside.

The culture of hatred and xenophobia that has been stirred up by many who want Brexit drove someone who was mentally ill to behave in the way that they did. That doesn't mean that everyone who supports Brexit is terrible, but it does mean that we should take a good, hard look at the rhetoric and structure that has been cultivated around the EU, foreigners and the migrant crisis.

The fact that it made someone who was, according to the Daily Mail, previously quite calm and timid become a murderer might suggest that there is a bl**dy problem.
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The leave campaign in general have been hesitant to make political capital out of Jo Cox's death. The remain side have had no such inhibitions.

Possibly because a xenophobic murderer who killed an MP who was one of the greatest activists for the migrant crisis doesn't look great when you're running a campaign partially based on fear of migrants (as Farage has).

I do not understand how it is somehow more respectful to decontextualise and fail to analyse the causes of someone's death. In fact, rewriting/ignoring facts so as to prevent such analysis is genuinely disrespectful, as it prevents us learning from what happened, from giving a true picture of what occurred, and it prevents the victim from being remembered for the real cause of their death - especially when she was killed for the very activism that she devoted her life to.

 

[EM2]

The bloke is mentally ill.

So am I. What is your point?

 

[Antman]

So am I. What is your point?

Well you said it!

 

[MikeWh]

The bloke is mentally ill.

It seems he might also have been active with Britain First.
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/thomas-mair-britain-first-protest.html

Instead of focusing their entire effort on distancing themselves from the killer and trying to discredit eyewitness accounts, perhaps it might have been better for the Britain First leadership to begin an investigation into whether Thomas Mair actually had any connections with their organisation before going into full-bore denial mode?

One place they could have started was their own website. The photograph above is from an article on the Britain First website celebrating the activities of their "Northern Division" in Dewsbury (just a few miles from Mair's home in Birstall). This is the link, but Internet illiterates often try to delete incriminating things from the Internet, so here's a copy saved on the Wayback Machine.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

The bloke is mentally ill.

By making this statement I fear that you have absolutely no idea about Mental Illness, causes, symptoms, triggers etc.

 

[EM2]

The bloke is mentally ill.

So am I. What is your point?

Well you said it!

Yes, because it's true. I suffer from mental illness, I take drugs and have counselling to help, and so that I can live as normal a life as possible.
So, again, what is your point?

 

[Gutfright]

Possibly because a xenophobic murderer who killed an MP who was one of the greatest activists for the migrant crisis doesn't look great when you're running a campaign partially based on fear of migrants (as Farage has).

Has the murderer mentioned anything about the migrant crisis? Is there any evidence he even knew of Jo Cox's activist work? You seem absolutely certain that you know everything about the killer's motivation, that you understand exactly why Cox died. I just don't understand how you can be 100% sure what was going through his mind when the rest of us have only unanswered questions.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Has the murderer mentioned anything about the migrant crisis? Is there any evidence he even knew of Jo Cox's activist work? You seem absolutely certain that you know everything about the killer's motivation, that you understand exactly why Cox died. I just don't understand how you can be 100% sure what was going through his mind when the rest of us have only unanswered questions.

So he killed her for no reason at all, and shouted what he did for completely unrelated reasons?

I don't claim to know everything about the killer - I just don't buy this extreme scepticism by those who are worried that it may hurt Brexit's chances at the polls.

 

[Antman]

By making this statement I fear that you have absolutely no idea about Mental Illness, causes, symptoms, triggers etc.

Oh what and I suppose you're an expert? It's just a statement of fact, who knows I might be there one day?
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Has the murderer mentioned anything about the migrant crisis? Is there any evidence he even knew of Jo Cox's activist work? You seem absolutely certain that you know everything about the killer's motivation, that you understand exactly why Cox died. I just don't understand how you can be 100% sure what was going through his mind when the rest of us have only unanswered questions.

Ahhh, some sanity at last

 

[TheKnightWho]

Oh what and I suppose you're an expert? It's just a statement of fact, who knows I might be there one day?
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Ahhh, some sanity at last

*some confirmation bias at last.

I will make sure to bring this up every single time you condemn Islamic terrorism in the future.

 

[cjmillsnun]

So am I. What is your point?

Likewise. Mental illness does not equate normally to someone attacking someone. Someone who is mentally ill is normally more a danger to themself.

Good to see you're getting the treatment and help you need. I was diagnosed with Bipolar disorder 5 years ago but with help and treatment, I live a normal life.

 

[Gutfright]

So he killed her for no reason at all, and shouted what he did for completely unrelated reasons?

We don't fully understand the reasons yet, therefore it must have happened for no reason. Interesting logic.

I don't claim to know everything about the killer - I just don't buy this extreme scepticism by those who are worried that it may hurt Brexit's chances at the polls.

You do claim to know that Jo Cox was killed because of her migrant activism...

I do not understand how it is somehow more respectful to decontextualise and fail to analyse the causes of someone's death. In fact, rewriting/ignoring facts so as to prevent such analysis is genuinely disrespectful, as it prevents us learning from what happened, from giving a true picture of what occurred, and it prevents the victim from being remembered for the real cause of their death - especially when she was killed for the very activism that she devoted her life to.

Has the murderer mentioned anything about the migrant crisis? Is there any evidence he even knew of Jo Cox's activist work?

You don't have to answer, of course, but it does undermine the credibility of your argument if you leave these questions unanswered.

 

[TheKnightWho]

We don't fully understand the reasons yet, therefore it must have happened for no reason. Interesting logic.

What reason do you think is most likely, especially given the statements he has made since then?

You do claim to know that Jo Cox was killed because of her migrant activism...

I do not understand how it is somehow more respectful to decontextualise and fail to analyse the causes of someone's death. In fact, rewriting/ignoring facts so as to prevent such analysis is genuinely disrespectful, as it prevents us learning from what happened, from giving a true picture of what occurred, and it prevents the victim from being remembered for the real cause of their death - especially when she was killed for the very activism that she devoted her life to.

Has the murderer mentioned anything about the migrant crisis? Is there any evidence he even knew of Jo Cox's activist work?

You don't have to answer, of course, but it does undermine the credibility of your argument if you leave these questions unanswered.

Jo Cox was killed for her political work, which included activism with the migrant crisis. Note I didn't say her entire life of activism was solely devoted to the migrant crisis. Pedantic nitpicking in order to derail the conversation from the cause of her death over irrelevant details which do not change the point that her death was a political statement by a far-right person. It also has no bearing on my point that we shouldn't decontextualise her death either.

So no, it doesn't weaken my argument at all. Your scepticism does seem to be a real stretch, however.