Lack of ticket checking / scanning on Avanti services

[Rover77]

Completely support your views here. Although my TOC is not (currently) as extreme as yours, we are well on our way.

Watching this discussion reminds me of the regular 'ask the directors' online things we have.

Customer facing staff raise genuine concerns, (often supported by multiple, disparate members of staff) - which are then met , publicly, live and in real time, by disbelief and 'management doublespeak' from our 'leaders'. We are generally told that the issue raised isn't an issue, doesn't exist, and, simultaneously, is in fact a massive benefit to all.

The staff member learns within a few seconds that the 'open forum' is anything but, and that the best thing to do is not to waste energy raising issues in future. Management then tell us what a success the open forum has been, whilst lamenting the poor results of the latest staff engagement survey.

Keep posting mate. I, and many others, appreciate what you have to say.

Thank you so much.

 

[Amaranthe]

From a customer point of view I've just completed a 14 day 1st Class All Line Rover trip which I used Avanti a lot and would have to say 90% of the time I never had my ticket checked.

 

[railfan99]

I accept the arguments regarding scanning. I will always go with my union.

Your union doesn't employ, or pay, you.

Having travelled a few times in the last 18 months on Avanti WC trains when visiting your wonderful countries, I've always had my 1st class Global Eurailpass checked.

 

[HullRailMan]

I'm following my Union. Short term pain for long term gain. Even when we are scanning there will still be plenty of tickets going unchecked and it is impossible to be everywhere at once.
I think we've covered people's opinions on the matter, I'm trying to give an insight into reasons tickets may not have been checked. There are plenty of valid reasons before jumping to the conclusion that the TM can't be bothered.


It appears not.

You do realise the RMT operate in their own interests and not that of their customers/members, and have only a passing relationship with the truth? I happily cancelled my RMT membership as I couldn’t continue to fund such an organisation. Locally to me, even today there is a ‘dispute’ simmering away which is all built on misinformation and unfounded fears. In this case, the idea that guards should be paid extra to compensate for the introduction of scanners is beyond hilarious.

 

[Rover77]

You do realise the RMT operate in their own interests and not that of their customers/members, and have only a passing relationship with the truth? I happily cancelled my RMT membership as I couldn’t continue to fund such an organisation. Locally to me, even today there is a ‘dispute’ simmering away which is all built on misinformation and unfounded fears. In this case, the idea that guards should be paid extra to compensate for the introduction of scanners is beyond hilarious.

That's your opinion,I disagree. You only have to look at the campaign to keep ticket offices to see what the union can achieve. Very pertinent yesterday with the global IT outage.

 

[XCTurbostar]

I suppose this thread explains why I haven’t had mine checked in weeks and why the Euston barrier staff have become more hostile!

 

[185]

You do realise the RMT operate in their own interests and not that of their customers/members, and have only a passing relationship with the truth? I happily cancelled my RMT membership as I couldn’t continue to fund such an organisation. Locally to me, even today there is a ‘dispute’ simmering away which is all built on misinformation and unfounded fears. In this case, the idea that guards should be paid extra to compensate for the introduction of scanners is beyond hilarious.

The RMT does represent our interests, in tackling head-on these scrounging, crooked train companies, awash with cash, hypocritically accusing the unions & staff of greed. In real terms, we've had a 18-22% pay cut in the last 5 years, whilst middle to senior MS grade salaries have rocketed - not through rises but through restructuring / renaming their own jobs.

For example, recent false claims by several TOCs during the football that a short notice spike in sickness caused cancellations are being challenged by the RMT who have found the sickness to be no greater than usual and the dishonest companies actually had no overtime volunteers - it is those dirty, lying, slandering fatcat railway bosses that our union is taking on - we're out there working, getting abuse for those lies.

In terms of a technology payment, if a small concession can be gained to compensate for a change in working practices, good on the RMT. I assume you will donate your unwanted payment... I'll have it.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

The RMT does represent our interests, in tackling head-on these scrounging, crooked train companies, awash with cash, hypocritically accusing the unions & staff of greed. In real terms, we've had a 18-22% pay cut in the last 5 years, whilst middle to senior MS grade salaries have rocketed - not through rises but through restructuring / renaming their own jobs.

For example, recent false claims by several TOCs during the football that a short notice spike in sickness caused cancellations are being challenged by the RMT who have found the sickness to be no greater than usual and the dishonest companies actually had no overtime volunteers - it is those dirty, lying, slandering fatcat railway bosses that our union is taking on - we're out there working, getting abuse for those lies.

In terms of a technology payment, if a small concession can be gained to compensate for a change in working practices, good on the RMT. I assume you will donate your unwanted payment... I'll have it.

Interesting opinion

 

[185]

Interesting opinion

RMT slams First Group dividends bonanza

TRANSPORT UNION RMT today slammed transport giant First Group for profiteering from privatised rail and bus services across the country and recommending an increase in dividends of nearly 50 per cent.

www.rmt.org.uk

Avanti:
11 June 2024

RMT Press Office:

TRANSPORT UNION RMT today slammed transport giant First Group for profiteering from privatised rail and bus services across the country and recommending an increase in dividends of nearly 50 per cent.

First Group’s financial results for the year ending March 2024 state that there has been a ‘significant increase’ in Group operating profit to £204 million – up 27 per cent from £161 million last year.
First group operates bus and rail services including Avanti West Coast – which has continued to be beset with problems during the last year, with Transport for the North calling for the contract to be terminated in March.
A final dividend per share of 4p recommended – brings total year dividend to 5.5p per share, a 45 per cent increase compared to last year. If agreed by the AGM, the final dividends totalling £24 million will be paid in August.

 

[jamiearmley]

Interesting opinion

It's not just the profits.

It's the taxpayers money they literally throw away as well.

Refurbishing buildings at great cost which are then due for demolition within months, made up job roles for mates, over specifying everything, failing to correctly manage contracts resulting in extra costs, failing to do even the most basic of sign offs on refurb and construction contracts resulting in the work having to be relet and redone at even greater cost, an industry wide failure to manage change efficiently and effectively, an unwillingness to ever turn round and admit something isn't working and suggest a change of course, even something so basic as hand soap is locked into sweetheart contracts which cost far far far more than these things ever should. It's not their money, they don't care, they can always ask for, and get, more money.

British Rail, at least, were far more efficient and mindful of taxpayer spend.

So yes, it is all this and more.

Much more.

The RMT is not perfect, there's bad apples in every barrel.

So too are the people running things not perfect - and that is unlikely to change.

 

[Mag_seven]

Has anyone got anything else to say about ticket checking on Avanti services? A reminder that if anyone wants to discuss anything else then please start a new thread elsewhere.

 

[Rover77]

Myself and many of my colleagues have not been able to check many tickets these last few days because of the state of the Pendalino fleet. The HVAC has not been working on most trains. Its is either close to 40 degrees or leaking everywhere. I've been trying my best to move people to cooler/dry carriages. Also dealing with people fainting etc.
There is a fix for the HVAC, I have been told by a Alston fitter that it would require every train coming out of service for approx 3 to 4 days. So it's ignored for now.
Toilets are often out of order, no running water in shop or first so has to close. Plug sockets and WiFi too. All these failures are other valid reason why a TM may not be able to get through 11 carriages to check every ticket. Its not always a union/political reason. Its a hard job and so much more goes on than a passenger can see in their very small portion of the train.
This is made worse by the twitter/X social media team not having accurate information. They try their best but often make a situation worse by not having the knowledge about what control a TM has and hasn't.

 

[Haywain]

Its a hard job and so much more goes on than a passenger can see in their very small portion of the train.

I think we all get that ticket checking isn't the whole job, and we all know that in our climate train air-con always struggles with particularly hit weather.

This is made worse by the twitter/X social media team not having accurate information. They try their best but often make a situation worse by not having the knowledge about what control a TM has and hasn't.

But they do know that for a passenger the first point of contact for an on-train problem is going to be the TM.

 

[Bluejays]

Indeed, I've heard accounts of micromanaging from various Avanti TMs I know. I'm pretty sure that this isn't just a local issue (though I don't know where Rover is based) but company wide. It's possible that a senior manager at Avanti (Head of Train Managers, Head of Retail or similar title) is an arse. It's also possible that the policy comes from the DfT staff minding Avanti (as all DfT TOCs have civil servants man-marking them) who haven't got a clue how to run a railway and are insisting on nonsense policies in order to keep themselves looking busy. Who knows?

All I know is that my non-DfT TOC has deployed the carrot rather than the stick and has achieved very good results, leading the pack where scanning is concerned.

This was my suspicion to be honest. Pure speculation, but seems like the result of some minders who want to put the boot in, combined with people higher up in Avanti who are afraid to stand up for any position whatsoever. End result is that Avanti will end up looking even worse

 

[Rover77]

I think we all get that ticket checking isn't the whole job, and we all know that in our climate train air-con always struggles with particularly hit weather.

But they do know that for a passenger the first point of contact for an on-train problem is going to be the TM.

Some passengers reach out to the social media team first. Then the social media team give them incorrect advice such as the TM will be able to reset the WiFi and it should sort the problem. It gives passengers unrealistic expectations of what control we have. I can and have reset the WiFi hundreds of times, it makes no difference.
Yesterday someone was told online that TMs cancel all seat reservations if they see fit under certain circumstances. They were not discussing the declassification of a train but the cancelling of seat reservations. Completely untrue. I double checked in our depot whattsapp group. No one has ever done this or even knows how to if they wanted to. This miss information really doesn't help.

 

[Sleepy]

About as helpful as those answering queries from unmanned stations that are telling passengers on Norfolk branch lines they must buy a ticket before boarding the train - when guards will & do so quite happily.......

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Some passengers reach out to the social media team first. Then the social media team give them incorrect advice such as the TM will be able to reset the WiFi and it should sort the problem. It gives passengers unrealistic expectations of what control we have. I can and have reset the WiFi hundreds of times, it makes no difference.
Yesterday someone was told online that TMs cancel all seat reservations if they see fit under certain circumstances. They were not discussing the declassification of a train but the cancelling of seat reservations. Completely untrue. I double checked in our depot whattsapp group. No one has ever done this or even knows how to if they wanted to. This miss information really doesn't help.

This has happened quite a few times - you just announce that the seat reservations don't apply and to take any vacant seat.

Alternatively you fudge it by sticking a trip in TMS that is for empty stock, which once downloaded, obviously doesn't have any seat reservations, but it means the automatic CIS doesn't work and you have to manually announce.

 

[Toby268]

Some passengers reach out to the social media team first. Then the social media team give them incorrect advice such as the TM will be able to reset the WiFi and it should sort the problem. It gives passengers unrealistic expectations of what control we have. I can and have reset the WiFi hundreds of times, it makes no difference.
Yesterday someone was told online that TMs cancel all seat reservations if they see fit under certain circumstances. They were not discussing the declassification of a train but the cancelling of seat reservations. Completely untrue. I double checked in our depot whattsapp group. No one has ever done this or even knows how to if they wanted to. This miss information really doesn't help.

Then you all need to raise it on whatever internal staff social site they use and find a way for it to be flagged and the issues it’s causing. If all the TMs are just discussing it in a WhatsApp group and not actually reporting it then it’ll never get corrected.

 

[Rover77]

On the agenda for next branch meeting.

 

[Cowley]

On the agenda for next branch meeting.

Well that seems like a good place to put a pause on this for now. Maybe you could report back after the meeting and update us @Rover77?

Thanks everyone