Language Mangling

[Deepgreen]

There is a growing annoyance of the railway producing verbose messages. The point of the evolution of language is to become more efficient, but this seems to be in reverse on the railway. Verbosity simply makes people switch off and the messages become a pointless background drone. Some examples I encounter frequently are:

"If you see anything suspicious, or anyone acting suspiciously, please report it to a member of staff or the British Transport police". Far too long and repetitive - "people acting suspiciously" is perfectly well covered by "anything suspicious", and who else is someone going to report to but staff or police? Also, if non-BT police happen to be around, can they not be reported to?
Translation: "Please report anything suspicious".

"For your safety and security, this train is fitted with CCTV".
Translation: "CCTV is in use".

"Our next station stop is...".
Translation: "The next station is..."

"We are now arriving into...".
Translation: "We are now arriving at...".

"We are now approaching xxxxxx, our final stop for this service. Please have your tickets and travel documents ready for the automatic gates." Ridiculously long, and why only have tickets ready here and not at the other stations en route with gates?
Translation: "We are now approaching xxxxxx. This train terminates here".

"This train divides en route at xxxxxx". Where else can it divide but at a point in its journey (i.e. en route)?
Translation: "This train divides at xxxxxx".

"Please stand well back behind the yellow line". Why "well back" - has the line been painted in the wrong place?
Translation: "Please stand behind the yellow line".

"Please ensure you have all your luggage and personal belongings with you when you leave the train".
Translation: "Do not leave anything on the train."

"Another portion is about to be attached to this train. Please remain seated while the attachment takes place". Why the second sentence? Passengers are not asked to remain seated at junctions, when approaching termini, or in general when the train is on the move when jolting can potentially be much more noticeable. What about those passengers who have no seats (a common scenario) when the attachment is being made?
Translation: "More coaches are about to be attached to this train".

 

[Llanigraham]

Don't see anything wrong with any of them.

 

[Lockwood]

1: Anyone in a uniform, appropriate or otherwise

2: The purpose for which the information is being stored has to be known. "CCTV is in use." Why?

3: The next station is West Byfleet. But we aren't stopping there.
3: The next station is Woking. No it's not. The next station is Byfleet and New Haw. We just won't stop there.

4: So you don't hold up the hundreds of people behind you as you flap at the hate, rather than the tens.

5: Its destination. A depot.

8: The jolt has been discussed in other threads. Apparently it can be quite violent at tines

 

[headshot119]

*snip*

"Another portion is about to be attached to this train. Please remain seated while the attachment takes place". Why the second sentence? Passengers are not asked to remain seated at junctions, when approaching termini, or in general when the train is on the move when jolting can potentially be much more noticeable. What about those passengers who have no seats (a common scenario) when the attachment is being made?
Translation: "More coaches are about to be attached to this train".

Because it's a get out clause for TOC in case someone attempts to sue them if they injure themselves during an attachment. I've never been jolted as badly as when banging onto another set.

 

[AlterEgo]

The railway has struggled for years with Simpler, Clearer English. Most of the above examples are pretty good - there is so much redundant language employed on the railway.

Another bugbear is the standardised delay reasons. "Disruptive passengers" is incredibly vague and can mean anything from a child pulling a passcom to a full-on mutiny with people roaming the tracks.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I think it one of those "it depends" questions and is very subjective.

Yes I am all for giving out information but yes, there is sometimes too much information and the constant announcements re CCTV etc really P*** me off. I know I'm being watched so I don't need constant reminding.

Maybe some of the announcements are lost in translation or some of the announcers do not understand the correct use of grammar....

 

[AlterEgo]

3: The next station is West Byfleet. But we aren't stopping there.
3: The next station is Woking. No it's not. The next station is Byfleet and New Haw. We just won't stop there.

Say "the next stop" then.

Please don't come back with "well there are signals so it might not be the next time the train stops" - people aren't idiots.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Maybe some of the announcements are lost in translation or some of the announcers do not understand the correct use of grammar....

It's a symptom of the railway feeling it has to justify itself all the time.

Less is more.

 

[sarahj]

It's the same outside of the railway. Many moons ago, or at a time known as BS (before Southern). I used to work at a hotel. The chef would give me menus like Vegetable soup. The menu would then read something like. 'Fresh Homemade country vegetable soup served with crusty granary bread'.

As for perhaps other reasons. A lady who was what private eye would call 'tired and emotional', once got off one of our trains. She fell over. She picked herself up. I think a name at most was taken by staff helping her. Next thing a letter from a 'sue, grabbit and run' type co saying it was our fault as there was no warning of the gap and please give them a large amount of money.

 

[rf_ioliver]

2: The purpose for which the information is being stored has to be known. "CCTV is in use." Why?

Partly legal reasons - people might not read the CCTV notices (or be able to) and secondly to remind everyone to behave otherwise Uncles George and Kafka will want a chat...

t.

Ian

 

[Lockwood]

That's pretty much my point. They have to state the reason for the information capture.

I was going to comment on signals, and hold that the general public may be considered deficient in the brain cell department.
As they said in Men in Black, a person may be smart but people are stupid.

 

[Deepgreen]

1: Anyone in a uniform, appropriate or otherwise

2: The purpose for which the information is being stored has to be known. "CCTV is in use." Why?

3: The next station is West Byfleet. But we aren't stopping there.
3: The next station is Woking. No it's not. The next station is Byfleet and New Haw. We just won't stop there.

4: So you don't hold up the hundreds of people behind you as you flap at the hate, rather than the tens.

5: Its destination. A depot.

8: The jolt has been discussed in other threads. Apparently it can be quite violent at tines

3 and 3 - really?? I cannot imagine a single person not understanding that "the next station is..." very obviously applies to the train on which the announcement is being made. "Station" is also better than the next "stop", which may easily be at a signal and could possibly cause confusion by those who take it literally.

4. Huh?

5. Assuming you mean '6' here - why would a passenger need to know what goes on at the depot? For passenger information, only the journey is relevant, and a train dividing at its destination (i.e. when not in service) is of no consequence to them. The announcement only applies to the journey, hence the redundancy of "en route".

8. As someone who catches a joining train almost every day, it is unusual even to feel the join let alone be jolted. As I posted initially, why would the railway not be sued when, for example, a train crosses a junction with a jerk, or by those who have to stand when trains join because there are no seats available?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Say "the next stop" then.

Please don't come back with "well there are signals so it might not be the next time the train stops" - people aren't idiots.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It's a symptom of the railway feeling it has to justify itself all the time.

Less is more.

Actually some are - I have witnessed at least two incidents where (in slam doors days) people tried to alight at signals. On the other hand, though, there were no announcements either way then! "Less is more" neatly sums it up, but the railway would probably phrase it as "Passengers are reminded that less is more".

 

[Tetchytyke]

"For your safety and security, this train is fitted with CCTV".
Translation: "CCTV is in use".

Nope. The train has CCTV, it doesn't mean they're using it

 

[AlterEgo]

"Less is more" neatly sums it up, but the railway would probably phrase it as "Passengers are reminded that less is more".

Very good!

 

[GB]

We must have a first class railway if this is what people are getting so bothered about.

 

[swt class 450]

There is a growing annoyance of the railway producing verbose messages. The point of the evolution of language is to become more efficient, but this seems to be in reverse on the railway. Verbosity simply makes people switch off and the messages become a pointless background drone. Some examples I encounter frequently are:

"If you see anything suspicious, or anyone acting suspiciously, please report it to a member of staff or the British Transport police". Far too long and repetitive - "people acting suspiciously" is perfectly well covered by "anything suspicious", and who else is someone going to report to but staff or police? Also, if non-BT police happen to be around, can they not be reported to?
Translation: "Please report anything suspicious".

"For your safety and security, this train is fitted with CCTV".
Translation: "CCTV is in use".

"Our next station stop is...".
Translation: "The next station is..."

"We are now arriving into...".
Translation: "We are now arriving at...".

"We are now approaching xxxxxx, our final stop for this service. Please have your tickets and travel documents ready for the automatic gates." Ridiculously long, and why only have tickets ready here and not at the other stations en route with gates?
Translation: "We are now approaching xxxxxx. This train terminates here".

"This train divides en route at xxxxxx". Where else can it divide but at a point in its journey (i.e. en route)?
Translation: "This train divides at xxxxxx".

"Please stand well back behind the yellow line". Why "well back" - has the line been painted in the wrong place?
Translation: "Please stand behind the yellow line".

"Please ensure you have all your luggage and personal belongings with you when you leave the train".
Translation: "Do not leave anything on the train."

"Another portion is about to be attached to this train. Please remain seated while the attachment takes place". Why the second sentence? Passengers are not asked to remain seated at junctions, when approaching termini, or in general when the train is on the move when jolting can potentially be much more noticeable. What about those passengers who have no seats (a common scenario) when the attachment is being made?
Translation: "More coaches are about to be attached to this train".

Yes i agree. There are far too many useless announcements.

The FGW / GWR 165 / 166 play the "Please do not attempt to board or alight from the train when the doors are closing." at every stop. It is a pointless announcement when most people who would board the train when the doors are closing will be on the platform and unable to hear the announcement.

The "Please have your tickets and travel documents ready for inspection." announcement pointlessly even plays on trains that terminate at Shalford! Personally i dont see why the words "travel documents" are necessary. It makes it sound like you are crossing an International Border!

I remember a few years ago on SWT 158 / 159 / 450 / 444 / 455 they used to have "Safety information is displayed in all coaches." and "Do try to keep all personal items with you. If you see anything suspicious please tell a member a staff." and "You must buy a ticket before you get on one of our trains. If you do not show a valid ticket when you are asked you may have to pay a penalty fare." playing all the time. But they have now gotten rid of these announcements.

The SWT 458/0 used to always have an announcement that said "The door buttons are now activated." at every stop.

The Heathrow Connect 360/2 also have "Please have your tickets ready for inspection." and "For your comfort and safety CCTV is in operation." and "Smoking on not permitted on board our trains." playing after every stop.

So yes there are far to many announcements. TOCs should concentrate better on important announcements rather than using lots of pointless ones that people just ignore.

 

[Deepgreen]

Nope. The train has CCTV, it doesn't mean they're using it

This is true, but I prefer the threat included in "is in use" as a deterrent rather than "is fitted with". The internal CCTV is also not for safety (i.e. it is not used by staff to influence any 'real-time' actions), but only for security, i.e. as a deterrent and as a source of evidence post-event, a distinction that is often blurred these days.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ironically, one of the worst offenders is GWR, whose 'blue period' previous incarnation of FGW claimed to have had an information purge, involving the removal of unnecessary messages and content! It isn't just broadcast items, either - my local station (Betchworth) has signs that read "For your comfort and convenience, this is a no-smoking station" (or similar ghastly wording), which carries an implication that some other stations may permit smoking, but is also not a firm and forceful instruction in the way that the simple "No Smoking" is.

 

[sarahj]

This is true, but I prefer the threat included in "is in use" as a deterrent rather than "is fitted with". The internal CCTV is also not for safety (i.e. it is not used by staff to influence any 'real-time' actions), but only for security, i.e. as a deterrent and as a source of evidence post-event, a distinction that is often blurred these days.

Actually, if I'm at a panel where there is a screen of the CCTV, I do watch it and have made the odd' big sister is watching you' once or twice to folks that were about to get out of hand. I've even used it to spot folks heading to sections of the train where perhaps they don't belong and then go and check them out.

 

[Deepgreen]

Actually, if I'm at a panel where there is a screen of the CCTV, I do watch it and have made the odd' big sister is watching you' once or twice to folks that were about to get out of hand. I've even used it to spot folks heading to sections of the train where perhaps they don't belong and then go and check them out.

It is still classed as a 'security' function, however it's good to know that some real-time use is made of the system by the 'diligentia'!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Yes, how does CCTV "improve your comfort..." !? I expect comfy seats to improve my comfort

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I think the big problem with announcements is that there are so many, people often tune out important ones.

At Leeds station you get announcements saying: security patrol this station 24 hrs a day, CCTV is in use for safety and security, trains doors may close up to a minute before the departure of the train from the station, due to today's wet weather please take extra care, you are not a train please don't walk on the tracks, platform alteration the Plymouth train will now depart from platform 9, smoking is forbidden anywhere on the station, it is not permitted to cycle skateboard or rollerblade anywhere on this station.

And they wonder why people miss important announcements.

 

[duncanp]

One that gets me is

"Due to <insert reason >, all trains are non stopping at <insert station name>"

It should be


"Due to <insert reason >, no trains are stopping at <insert station name>"


It is just as bad as "..blood doning....", or "....should of...", or "...train fairs...."

 

[work-traveller]

"Please ensure you have all your luggage and personal belongings with you when you leave the train".
Translation: "Do not leave anything on the train."

Whilst we're on this one, the word 'personal' is superfluous. That is unless you're in the habit of travelling with impersonal possessions which you intend to leave on the train.

I'm also given to wonder if anyone has ever remembered to take a possession from the train, purely as a result of this announcement.

 

[PR1Berske]

We must have a first class railway if this is what people are getting so bothered about.

Nothing gets letters pages or radio phone ins more irate than grammar and the English language..!

 

[rf_ioliver]

On the other hand, though, there were no announcements either way then! "Less is more" neatly sums it up, but the railway would probably phrase it as "Passengers are reminded that less is more".

Passengers are reminded that this service is double plus good and any unpersons who think otherwise are reminded to crimestop otherwise they will be taken to the ungood place joycamp by the Miniluv

t.

Ian

 

[hounddog]

IA lady who was what private eye would call 'tired and emotional', once got off one of our trains. She fell over. She picked herself up. I think a name at most was taken by staff helping her. Next thing a letter from a 'sue, grabbit and run' type co saying it was our fault as there was no warning of the gap and please give them a large amount of money.

I trust a reply was sent referring to the case of Arkell vs Pressdram.

 

[Lockwood]

Flapping at the gate. Typing whilst a passenger on a vehicle that is bouncing around a lot.

And even if the service is not stopping at a station, it is still geographically the next station. I will tell people where we are at work to keep them informed as to what is going on. Going to Tooting, I will often use Collier's Wood station as a landmark. There is no expectation that anyone would be getting in/off there, even if we do stop right outside it.

Yes, totally different circumstances. However someone may think that a station is being named as a landmark rather than a calling point.

 

[Master29]

A bit of a pedantic thread quite frankly. What does it matter. Would you rather not have this than a coach full of stinking drunks?

 

[AlterEgo]

A bit of a pedantic thread quite frankly. What does it matter. Would you rather not have this than a coach full of stinking drunks?

The efficient use of language is vital in today's culture, where people are bombarded with messages with incredible regularity. People tend to filter out complicated messages and only absorb simple and easy to understand ones.

 

[endecotp]

Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen my name is tracey and I am your on train catering team leader through as far as Preston today. I and my team welcome you on board this trainsRUs bendylino service today and we will be happy to serve you with a selection of hot and cold beverages including teas, coffees including lattees, capuchinos, expressos and hot chocolate, and a selection of alcholic and non-alchoholic drinks including wines beers and spritis, and also a selection of snacks unfortunately due to an earlier dealay on a previous service we were unable to fully re-stock before departure from Edinburgh but we do have a small number of sandwiches incluing egg and cress left over from yesterday which are included in our meal deal - buy any tea or cofee and a sandwich and a packet of crisps for only nine poinds fifty pence. For customers in first class an at seat service of hot drinks and snacks is currently making its way through thr first class carriages starting from the front of the train headig towards the rear of the first class section; standard class passengers please make your way to the shop which is located in coach >>CRACKLE<< towards the >>BUZZ<< of the standard class portion of this 11 coach train. Once again ladies and gentlemen welcome on board today and if I or any member of my team can help in any way please don't hesitate to ask. The shop will now be closing for a stock taking procedure so please wait for another unbearably long announcement when we are actually open. Thank you for listening, why not visit pur website at www.ontraincateringbenylinowesteastcoast DOT COM forward slash PANTS.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I think the big problem with announcements is that there are so many, people often tune out important ones.

At Leeds station you get announcements saying: security patrol this station 24 hrs a day, CCTV is in use for safety and security, trains doors may close up to a minute before the departure of the train from the station, due to today's wet weather please take extra care, you are not a train please don't walk on the tracks, platform alteration the Plymouth train will now depart from platform 9, smoking is forbidden anywhere on the station, it is not permitted to cycle skateboard or rollerblade anywhere on this station.

And they wonder why people miss important announcements.

(My bold). The one about train doors closing early always makes me think, why doesn't the TOC just fix the published timetable then? If the schedule means that train doors should be closing at or a few seconds after 10:32am, then just put 10:32 as the departure time in the public version of the timetable, (instead of, say, 10:33). Then people would know what time they need to be on the platform, so that announcement would be completely unnecessary.