Language Mangling

[reb0118]

And so it begins.....

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[MrPIC]

"May I have your attention please. To ensure you don't miss your flight, passengers are reminded that before you pass through London Stansted's security checks, all liquids, pastes, creams, gels and aerosols must be placed in a small, single, clear, re-sealable plastic bag. This plastic bag must be removed from your hand luggage, and presented seperately. Any liquids or gels larger than 100ml will not be permitted." Repeat again in Spanish and Italian.

I bet the commuters love listening to that every day departing Tottenham Hale!
As for some of the examples in the first post, I do usually say the one about if you see any suspicious items or activity, please report to staff or BTP, mainly just to remind people to remain vigilant for both packages and people, and that both staff and Police are available if needed.

 

[Parallel]

I think with the GWR PIS, they could have an announcement rotation of three or four sentences.

I.e.

1. "Welcome aboard this Great Western Railway service to Great Malvern. The next stop is Filton Abbey Wood. Please keep your personal belongings with you at all times and report anything suspicious to a member of staff."

2. "Welcome aboard this Great Western Railway service to Great Malvern. The next stop is Bristol Parkway. Please do not attempt to board or leave the train when the doors are closing."

3. "Welcome aboard this Great Western Railway service to Great Malvern. The next stop is Yate. When boarding and alighting trains, please mind the gap between the train and the platform edge."

4. "Welcome aboard this Great Western Railway service to Great Malvern. The next stop is Cam and Dursley. Please ensure you are familiar with the safety information displayed throughout the train."

When you're doing a fairly lengthy journey on a unit that has PIS, hearing the announcement every few minutes does begin to drive you up the wall.

Of course, I'd prefer no 'nanny' announcements, but that's not going to happen.

 

[Trog]

Yes, how does CCTV "improve your comfort..." !?

If you drop your trousers and point your bum at the camera, the infrared lighting provided for night use will warm it up for you on mornings when the provided seating is a bit cold.

 

[lightning76]

Ironically, one of the worst offenders is GWR, whose 'blue period' previous incarnation of FGW claimed to have had an information purge, involving the removal of unnecessary messages and content! It isn't just broadcast items, either - my local station (Betchworth) has signs that read "For your comfort and convenience, this is a no-smoking station" (or similar ghastly wording), which carries an implication that some other stations may permit smoking, but is also not a firm and forceful instruction in the way that the simple "No Smoking" is.

At least in your part of the GWR empire you are spared...

"Weatherbury, Weydon Priors and Shottsford are request stops, and passengers for these stations, should ask the conductor, on the train, to arrange for the train to stop, to allow them to leave." (PS, not sure about the grammatical correctness of that, either.)

"First class is at the front. Standard class is at the middle and rear. Bicycle spaces are at the very rear. Please be aware, you can only bring a bicycle, on this service, if you have booked beforehand." (To be repeated at least twice, for every train.)

 

[Via Bank]

There is an obsession on the Railway with sounding 'professional' at the expense of being direct, honest and clear.

Case in point: GTR's PIS has started saying "customers are requested to mind the gap between the train and platform edge when boarding."

The majority of the sentence is unnecessary, and it's in the third person, which makes it sound like waffle rather than a call to action.

Change it to the second person, and cut off the front and back. "Please mind the gap between the train and the platform." Shorter, clearer to people who may have trouble understanding English, more direct, less waffle.

 

[NickBucks]

I know the Underground is only vaguely connected with this forum but as a daily traveller I get fed up with the same announcements every time a train arrives at the platform. I will not repeat them- you know what they are. Regular passengers are treated as idiots and I do not know how the platform staff can repeat the same mantra time after time.

 

[mirodo]

There is an obsession on the Railway with sounding 'professional' at the expense of being direct, honest and clear.

Case in point: GTR's PIS has started saying "customers are requested to mind the gap between the train and platform edge when boarding."

The majority of the sentence is unnecessary, and it's in the third person, which makes it sound like waffle rather than a call to action.

Change it to the second person, and cut off the front and back. "Please mind the gap between the train and the platform." Shorter, clearer to people who may have trouble understanding English, more direct, less waffle.

"Mind the gap" is really all that is needed.

 

[pdeaves]

The FGW / GWR 165 / 166 play the "Please do not attempt to board or alight from the train when the doors are closing." at every stop. It is a pointless announcement when most people who would board the train when the doors are closing will be on the platform and unable to hear the announcement.

I suspect it's intended to get into your consciousness so that you don't try to hurl yourself on or off at the last second at some other stop. Whether it works or not is another matter.




At Paddington, there is a ridiculous pre-recorded announcement. "This is a security announcement reminding passengers to keep their belongings with them...", etc. I wince every time I hear it.

 

[trivran]

What annoys me is the announcements at Euston, that certain tickets are not valid 'in' certain trains. Surely it should be 'on'?

At Paddington, there is a ridiculous pre-recorded announcement. "This is a security announcement reminding passengers to keep their belongings with them...", etc. I wince every time I hear it.

The worst announcements at Paddington are the pre-recorded ones made by the guy who isn't very good at making announcements. He always sounds so depressed. "The taxi rank. Is. Located by platform 12" ..

 

[johnnychips]

What annoys me is the announcements at Euston, that certain tickets are not valid 'in' certain trains. Surely it should be 'on'?

This is why English is such a wonderful idiosyncratic language. What he says isn't 'good' English, but he's actually right! (Visions of commuter lying on Pendolino roof)

 

[Busaholic]

The one that really gets me is one that I railed against when I worked for the organisation, and that was in the early 1970s so nothing has changed; on London Underground every delay/cancellation of service is caused by an 'incident'. Yes, an incident of what exactly? A 7/7 situation is treated exactly the same as someone oversleeping and failing to open the station at Fairlop! It is non-information at its worst and, in my view, inexcusable.

 

[alexl92]

I think the thing that annoys me most is the way they're made. The non-train related announcement at Huddersfield (ie, please keep off the tracks, keep your belongings with you etc) have been voiced by a lady with a local accent, but each sentence sounds like 5 or 6 sentences... '...unattended baggage. may be removed. or destroyed. by the security services'

Jeremy Clarkson once admitted that he speaks the way he does because his heavy smoking habit has left him too short of breath to say long sentences in one go. I can only guess that maybe this lady is the same but it's dead annoying.

 

[tsr]

I think the thing that annoys me most is the way they're made. The non-train related announcement at Huddersfield (ie, please keep off the tracks, keep your belongings with you etc) have been voiced by a lady with a local accent, but each sentence sounds like 5 or 6 sentences... '...unattended baggage. may be removed. or destroyed. by the security services'

Jeremy Clarkson once admitted that he speaks the way he does because his heavy smoking habit has left him too short of breath to say long sentences in one go. I can only guess that maybe this lady is the same but it's dead annoying.

When a human is speaking "live" (either over a PA or in another scenario, eg. in face-to-face conversation) they tend to use different inflections and tones, roll words together, and so on, in order to make up sentences appropriate for the moment. Unfortunately most of the software used to play back sequences of pre-recorded voice clips to form automatic announcements is unable to do this very well. This means that automatic announcements over PIS/CIS which are formed of numerous phrases will sound somewhat disjointed. The shorter the phrases (often split to very short lengths to allow flexibility and reduce repetition with the audio files) the more disjointed it may sound.

 

[Phil from Mon]

At least in your part of the GWR empire you are spared...

"Weatherbury, Weydon Priors and Shottsford are request stops, and passengers for these stations, should ask the conductor, on the train, to arrange for the train to stop, to allow them to leave." (PS, not sure about the grammatical correctness of that, either.)

We get that on ATW as well. Why not just "x, y and z are request stops and if you want to get off there you must ask the guard"?

 

[Deepgreen]

I suspect it's intended to get into your consciousness so that you don't try to hurl yourself on or off at the last second at some other stop. Whether it works or not is another matter.




At Paddington, there is a ridiculous pre-recorded announcement. "This is a security announcement reminding passengers to keep their belongings with them...", etc. I wince every time I hear it.

Another expression that grates (sorry) - how else could something be recorded and broadcast if not recorded beforehand? This sits alongside pre-booked, pre-ordered and so on. Recorded, booked and ordered.
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We must have a first class railway if this is what people are getting so bothered about.

It's far from the only thing that's wrong, clearly, but it is a very easy thing to get right if a small amount of thought and effort is devoted to making sure communications are succinct.
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A bit of a pedantic thread quite frankly. What does it matter. Would you rather not have this than a coach full of stinking drunks?

Yeah, who cares? Wha'evuh. Incidentally, I see no connection between ensuring communications are effective (easy and free to do) and a train full of drunks.
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Flapping at the gate. Typing whilst a passenger on a vehicle that is bouncing around a lot.

And even if the service is not stopping at a station, it is still geographically the next station. I will tell people where we are at work to keep them informed as to what is going on. Going to Tooting, I will often use Collier's Wood station as a landmark. There is no expectation that anyone would be getting in/off there, even if we do stop right outside it.

Yes, totally different circumstances. However someone may think that a station is being named as a landmark rather than a calling point.

Ah. Well, my point was that these announcements are not made at every gated station, so the inconsistency renders it far less helpful (especially as, in the case I cited, Redhill has one entrance which is infamously not gated!).

 

[DynamicSpirit]

What annoys me is the announcements at Euston, that certain tickets are not valid 'in' certain trains. Surely it should be 'on'?

That's a curious one. Traditionally, you talk of being 'on' a train or a bus, but that seems a very odd quirk of English. 'on' normally carries connotations of being above, whereas 'in' would logically make more sense when you are clearly located inside the train (rather than being on the roof of the carriage ). Indeed, for cars, you do say 'in', not 'on'.

I do wonder why we have this odd usage of 'on' for trains. I wonder whether it has something to do with some of the earliest train 'carriages' in the early days of the railways being more like open wagons with seats on them - for which saying 'on' would therefore make more sense?

 

[Deepgreen]

That's a curious one. Traditionally, you talk of being 'on' a train or a bus, but that seems a very odd quirk of English. 'on' normally carries connotations of being above, whereas 'in' would logically make more sense when you are clearly located inside the train (rather than being on the roof of the carriage ). Indeed, for cars, you do say 'in', not 'on'.

I do wonder why we have this odd usage of 'on' for trains. I wonder whether it has something to do with some of the earliest train 'carriages' in the early days of the railways being more like open wagons with seats on them - for which saying 'on' would therefore make more sense?

The accepted use is 'on' for 'public' (i.e. non-personal) transport - on board ship on an aircraft, on a bus or train, etc. I suspect there may be a basis of having to climb onto these examples, whereas a car is entered by lowering oneself. For places, 'at' is normal - i.e. 'at' a station. For the latter, this is why it is wrong to say 'arriving into' a place/station, and it's a mystery to me how/why this annoying expression has developed on the railway - it isn't quicker to say, for example.

There seems to be a mis-conception that changing, elaborating or lengthening words or messages, or changing the relationship of words to each other, somehow makes the user seem more professional and erudite - it doesn't. So many words have been tweaked to try to make the user seem dynamic and modern (but failing) - 'impact' is almost universally used instead of 'affect' these days. Everything that affects something now has to 'impact' it - marketing-speak pervades!

 

[button_boxer]

It can be useful to include extra filler words at the start of announcements before the actual information-bearing words - it can take a second or so for the listener to twig that an announcement has started and to tune in to what is being said, and if the critical information was in the first few words the chances are many people will miss it completely.

"<mumble mumble> for the 10:21 service to Edinburgh"

vs

"<mumble mumble> arrive at platform 2 will be the 10:21 service to Edinburgh"

 

[pdeaves]

Another expression that grates (sorry) - how else could something be recorded and broadcast if not recorded beforehand? This sits alongside pre-booked, pre-ordered and so on. Recorded, booked and ordered.

Fair point. Accepted.

Yeah, who cares? Wha'evuh.

Wo'evva, shorely?

 

[Deepgreen]

Fair point. Accepted.




Wo'evva, shorely?

I must watch my spelling!

 

[Howard70]

- marketing-speak pervades!

Ironic though that professional copywriters in TOCs and Ad Agencies across the land are the people least likely to have created the announcements being discussed in this thread.

 

[6Gman]

The infuriating "this train calls at the following principal stations", followed by every station at which the train calls, standard on ATW, cropped up on VTWC last week.

 

[pdq]

I thought the 'principal stations' announcement on ATW omits request stops.
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Not totally relevant, but the TPE announcements at Huddersfield are currently being 'extremely sorry for the severe delay' for trains just 5 mins late. I guess the files have got mixed up...

 

[urbophile]

'impact' is almost universally used instead of 'affect' these days.

Something I noticed today on a poster advertising Merseyrail improvement work aka disruption. Two consecutive sentences, one saying 'this will *affect* your journey'; the next, 'this will not *impact* on' other services. I suppose they wanted to avoid repetition but it did grate somewhat.
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I thought the 'principal stations' announcement on ATW omits request stops.
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Not totally relevant, but the TPE announcements at Huddersfield are currently being 'extremely sorry for the severe delay' for trains just 5 mins late. I guess the files have got mixed up...

Perhaps they are employing a Japanese announcer.

 

[Mag_seven]

"This train is due to arrive at Euston at approximately 14.13".

No no no - there is no "approximately" about it - it is due to arrive at 14.13 exactly - end of!

 

[endecotp]

'impact' is almost universally used instead of 'affect' these days.

My theory: they can't decide whether it should be 'affect' or 'effect', so they say 'impact'.

 

[cjmillsnun]

"Mind the gap" is really all that is needed.

The old LU Mind the Gap was perfect. It had a middle C to get your attention, the phrase Mind the Gap was repeated a few times in very clearly spoken english, followed by Stand Clear of the Doors Please

 

[initiation]

1. "Welcome aboard this Great Western Railway service to Great Malvern. The next stop is Filton Abbey Wood. Please keep your personal belongings with you at all times and report anything suspicious to a member of staff."

2. "Welcome aboard this Great Western Railway service to Great Malvern. The next stop is Bristol Parkway. Please do not attempt to board or leave the train when the doors are closing."

4. "Welcome aboard this Great Western Railway service to Great Malvern. The next stop is Cam and Dursley. Please ensure you are familiar with the safety information displayed throughout the train.

1. As somebody else mentioned, who carries impersonal belongings with them?

2. This one annoys me tbe most. The woman's voice/accent on 'doors are closing' is unbearable.

3. I think they use (atleast in this part of GWR land) 'passenger saloon'. Who on earth thought of that.


Can be stood waiting at BTM for a 3 minute delayed train and have announcements occur every minute for 3 or 4 minutes before scheduled departure time, Then if expected departure changes by one minute they have to run through the whole thing again just changing apologising for being 4 minutes late rather than three (and sorry for any inconvenience).

How do we stop these completely unnecessary and unhelpful announcements?

 

[Deepgreen]

What a gem I had yesterday evening. At the turn-round at Redhill, my GWR Redhill to Reading train's guard waited until the interminable recorded announcement about CCTV, safety information, etc., had finished and then launched into a repeat of the same announcement, virtually (but, importantly, not quite) word-for-word, ending with; "This train is for all stations to Reading" (which is wrong, as it omits Wanborough, which the recorded announcement had got right).

A short time later, just before we left, he repeated the announcement but embellished it with phrases such as "for those passengers joining this train at Redhill" (that's everyone, as it had terminated there!), "this is the xxxx to Reading, scheduled to arrive into Reading at approximately xxxx" (my emboldening - when is a scheduled arrival time approximate?), "for passengers unfamiliar with this type of traction please study the safety information" (I didn't notice any 'spotters' aboard!) and rounded off with a correction to his earlier stopping pattern message in that we would omit Wanborough, and an apology about our two minute late departure, claiming that "we would do our best to make up time" (virtually impossible with today's strict speed limit adherence policy).

What a mess, neatly demonstrating the desperate need for the 'less is more' mantra to be applied.

People may think "so what?", but the point is that it is unnecessary to repeat recorded announcements immediately after they have played anyway, but to get the repeat wrong makes it not just annoying but confusing for those who may still be listening to the droning. The very fact that so much verbiage pours out means that people just switch off and may miss any important nuggets that may be buried in the superfluous stuff. All this, again, from the TOC that made play of the claim that they were intending to remove unnecessary information!