Light Rail and Buses

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WestRiding

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Would it be possible to have a completely different forum section for busses, or light rail. Personally i hate buses, and get fed up of trudging through bus threads to find anything rail related. Are there no dedicated bus forums out there? After all the name of this forum is 'RAILUK'.
 
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radamfi

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More people seem to be interested in buses in this section though, judging by the large number of bus related threads. Note that the plural of bus is 'buses'.
 

starrymarkb

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This is the Semi/OT section for other transport. Though maybe some of the bus threads could be condensed like the Aviation seems to have done into 'bashing' and 'general aviation discussion' threads
 

radamfi

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There does seem to be a large section of the population who like trams/light rail but hate buses, certainly in the UK. I am referring both to enthusiasts and the general population. I wonder if this is particularly marked in the UK compared to countries that run most of their city transport with trams? Even the most tram orientated cities like Zurich and Amsterdam run quite a few buses.
 

VTPreston_Tez

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I say split such section into 'Bus Discussion' 'Metro, Tram and other Light Rail' and 'Other Transport Discussion'. Abolish LU discussion completely.
 

WestRiding

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i dont like buses because they are a rip off unless you have a season ticket. train is alot better value. if i want to go into town from my home, Thornhill Lees into Dewsbury, it costs £1.60, each way, and the bus is full of people who dont pay, seniors, doll people etc. In my clean car, 20p fuel each way, and 40p to park, and i can go when i want, so £3.20 arriva bus, or 80p in my car. i only use bus to go to pub or back from pub, but then a taxi is only £4 home, good value if there are 3 or more of us.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Plus rail is generally cleaner, quicker, smoother than bus. Rail transport just seems of better quality, even if a 142 does turn up as my rail transport.
 

MCR247

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And your own problems with your local buses is relevant to the structure of this forum because...?
Exactly

Anyway, why do you think this forum has sub-forums? It means if you don't like something don't read it.
 

radamfi

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i dont like buses because they are a rip off unless you have a season ticket. train is alot better value. if i want to go into town from my home, Thornhill Lees into Dewsbury, it costs £1.60, each way, and the bus is full of people who dont pay, seniors, doll people etc. In my clean car, 20p fuel each way, and 40p to park, and i can go when i want, so £3.20 arriva bus, or 80p in my car. i only use bus to go to pub or back from pub, but then a taxi is only £4 home, good value if there are 3 or more of us.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Plus rail is generally cleaner, quicker, smoother than bus. Rail transport just seems of better quality, even if a 142 does turn up as my rail transport.
You seem to be talking about the British version of the bus. That is what I was getting at in my earlier message. Whilst it can't be denied that rail at its best will always be superior to a bus in terms of speed and comfort, a lot can be done to make buses much more attractive. Commenting that a bus is a rip off but train is a lot better value is rather unfair as that is only concerning the rather bizarre British anomalous situation. In Germany, Switzerland etc. it makes no difference whether you travel locally by bus or rail or both combined. The fare is the same.

In addition, British vehicle standards are far below those enjoyed in, say, Germany. The double glazed MAN/Mercedes buses widely used in Germany are much closer to tram quality than the cheaply built single glazed Enviro 200/400 that pass for buses in the UK.
 

WestCoast

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I'd take a train or tram over a bus anyday and I'm not usually one to defend provincial buses BUT...

i dont like buses because they are a rip off unless you have a season ticket. train is alot better value.
In West Yorkshire maybe, local rail fares are generally lower because they are subsidised by WYPTE. Local rail fares are generally higher elsewhere, for example in neighbouring Lancashire, despite the fact that on average wages and living costs are comparable between the counties.

7 miles journey in Lancashire taking 25 minutes on average:
Stagecoach Bus: £3.50 return (day ticket)
Rail: £4.30 single / £4.50 return

In my clean car, 20p fuel each way, and 40p to park, and i can go when i want, so £3.20 arriva bus, or 80p in my car.
That's not the true cost of the journey though. You have to take into account the generally fixed costs of insurance, road tax, MOT and servicing.

Plus rail is generally cleaner, quicker, smoother than bus. Rail transport just seems of better quality, even if a 142 does turn up as my rail transport.
There are some high quality bus services in certain parts of the country. The standards vary widely. Lothian Buses in Edinburgh, Trent Barton in Nottinghamshire e.t.c e.t.c
 

Ivo

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What's wrong with a bus thread or twenty? A large number (if not majority) of members aren't exclusively into railway transport, and this forum is good at catering for other types.

I'd like to see kimflop try and get across Edinburgh cheaper on the train than on the bus. :lol:
Could try the tram...

...or maybe not.
 

WestCoast

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Lothian Buses are excellent; the vehicles are usually spotless and very well maintained, the network is frequent and extensive, the information at bus stops and the website is amazingly clear (compare to the clunky Stagecoach website!), the fares are extremely reasonable and the drivers are mostly courteous and friendly. No wonder Edinburgh has some of the highest levels of bus ridership outside London.

I'm just surprised they don't get mentioned here more often over the more usual suspects like Trent Barton. Best bus firm I've ever used in the UK and I'd say they beat many of the continental bus networks I've used as well.

*I promise I am not being paid to promote them!*
 

tbtc

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I think that buses fit perfectly well in here - I think the OP"s point is more along the lines of "I don't like buses" rather than a serious point about forum structure.

Personally I think that there's a time/place for bus/ guided bus/ tram/ train/ coach - however a lot of enthusiasts seem to have a "one size fits all" approach :lol:

i dont like buses because they are a rip off unless you have a season ticket. train is alot better value. if i want to go into town from my home, Thornhill Lees into Dewsbury, it costs £1.60, each way, and the bus is full of people who dont pay, seniors, doll people etc
Doll people? Teddies?

You do realise that your train tickets in West Yorkshire are heavily subsidised by the PTE, the bus fares are commercial, but you are complaining about people not paying on the bus (whilst enjoying your subsidised train ticket)?

In my clean car, 20p fuel each way, and 40p to park, and i can go when i want
Great - 20p fuel - that's very efficient.
 

radamfi

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Lothian is the best in the UK, with the possible exception of TfL buses. However they do follow some poor British standard practice such as no free interchange (although the day ticket is quite cheap) and the widespread use of single glazed buses. You might expect a city the size of Edinburgh to have a fairly widespread tram network and it would probably have one if it was in mainland Europe. Also buses suffer from fairly chronic traffic congestion as times as bus priority is not adequate. Of course this is not the fault of the operator but I feel it needs to be mentioned if one is to compare Edinburgh's transport system to those on the continent.
 

WestRiding

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20p fuel, yes, its about three quarters of a mile journey, making £1.60 bus fare seem a tad on the steep side, especially considering it stops at a bus stop every 100 yards, and visits every council estate on-route.
In WYPTE area, bus fares are subsidised too, through Metro, so trains and buses are both subsidised, not just trains.
I asked in the opening thread if light rail could have its own area away from buses etc. This seems a reasonable request given that it is a rail forum for rail transport, and trams/light rail are indeed forms of rail transport.
Regarding traveling across Edinburgh, why would i care.........?
Its pointless the dictionary police on here giving me lessons in spelling and grammer, i admit it is not my strong point, so dont waste your time.
There are some very sensitive people on here, il think on next time i post a thread.
 

radamfi

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In WYPTE area, bus fares are subsidised too, through Metro, so trains and buses are both subsidised, not just trains.
That hasn't been the case since 1986. If you can remember that far back, buses and trains in West Yorkshire were incredibly cheap with a maximum off-peak fare something like 30p. I think that applied for both trains and buses. The Metro Dayrover was £1.

Since 26 October 1986, regular adult bus fares on most bus services outside London and Northern Ireland cannot be subsidised - by law. Metro is currently proposing bus Quality Contracts which will mean bus fares will be set by them again, but that is far from certain to go ahead and given the financial circumstances, I doubt fares will be able to be subsidised to any significant level.
 

90019

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Also buses suffer from fairly chronic traffic congestion as times as bus priority is not adequate.
Part of the problem for traffic flow is that a lot of bus lanes have parking bays in them, rendering them useless for most of the day (Newington Road is particularly bad for this, at the Salisbury Place end it's almost guaranteed that there will be cars parked in the bus lane.)
 

WestRiding

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so how come all the buses have Metro plastered on them, the bus stops are Metro livery, and alot of my council tax goes to Metro every year. I dont pretend to understand buses and how they are financed.
 

WestRiding

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And your own problems with your local buses is relevant to the structure of this forum because...?
At which point in my opening post did i relate my local buses to the structure of the forum? I mearly asked for rail to be seperate from buses. I mentioned my local buses when somone, off topic, challenged me about not liking buses etc. I just dont like them. End off.
 

WestRiding

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Don't make sweeping statements then.
Dont make sweeping statements. Like half this forum of people thinking they know everything railways, when infact they probably sit on the end of a platform taking pictures, but dont actually work for the railways. There are bigger sweeping statements from other people here than me talking about a seperate light rail section.
 

90019

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Dont make sweeping statements. Like half this forum of people thinking they know everything railways, when infact they probably sit on the end of a platform taking pictures, but dont actually work for the railways. There are bigger sweeping statements from other people here than me talking about a seperate light rail section.
 

radamfi

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so how come all the buses have Metro plastered on them, the bus stops are Metro livery, and alot of my council tax goes to Metro every year. I dont pretend to understand buses and how they are financed.
Buses are divided into 'commercial' and 'subsidised' (or tendered). The majority of routes (during the daytime) are run by the bus companies at their own risk and they decide the timetables and fares. These are 'commercial' services.

Once the bus companies have decided what routes they want to run commercially, Metro then have the option of filling in gaps in the network by paying bus companies to run those services. These are the 'subsidised' services and are mostly evening/Sunday services but can also include daytime services to certain estates or rural areas. Metro decide the fares on these routes but they are usually not too different to what they would be if they were commercial.

Which buses have Metro 'plastered on them'? Some tendered services have the Metro livery but the vast majority of buses are in the bus company liveries e.g. First, Arriva, Stagecoach, Centrebus.

Metro have a responsibility to promote public transport in West Yorkshire and to maintain street furniture and bus stations. They also provide unbiased bus timetable information. They facilitate joint ticketing schemes and concessionary fares.

Metro are also heavily involved in local rail services and many local rail services are more frequent and cheaper than they otherwise would be.
 
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