Harlesden
Member
If a person is detected stopping short on an Advance ticket, is it likely to become a prosecution issue or is the offender simply prevented from leaving the station and put onto the next train to the destination on the ticket?
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Likely consequences of stopping short
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DaveNewcastle
Established Member
By asking the question "if a person is detected" then we should assume that you specifically want to exclude circumstances in which the passenger has asked for, and been given permission, to leave the train before the contracted destination, and that you are only concerned with situations in which the passenger had hoped to avoid detection.
There would be no point in requiring the passenger to board the next train - they wouldn't have a valid ticket for that journey - the terms of the contract would already have been broken.
Please see the Forum's Fares & Ticketing Guide, here for a discussion of 'break of journey' which is not permitted when travelling on Advance ticket types.
Where there is little or no loss of revenue to the Railway Company incurred by the passenger having used an Advance ticket to a more distant station rather a ticket to the actual point of alighting, then we would expect that no action would be taken - perhaps just advice that it is not strictly permitted. Guidance was published a few years ago to advise that prosecution should not be pursued if there was no indication of significant loss to the industry. Unfortunately, that wording is open to interpretation, and of course a loss of just a few pounds could be 'significant' if it was a regular habit over 500 commuiting journeys each year.
It is not something that should be encouraged, and it remains a breach of the contract terms, which are quite clear and doing so could justify a prosecution if the proper fare for the actual journey taken is not paid on demand. But if there is a one-off incident or emergency which prompts the wish to abandon a journey early, then it would be appropriate to ask for permission and for that permission to be granted.
There would be no point in requiring the passenger to board the next train - they wouldn't have a valid ticket for that journey - the terms of the contract would already have been broken.
Please see the Forum's Fares & Ticketing Guide, here for a discussion of 'break of journey' which is not permitted when travelling on Advance ticket types.
Where there is little or no loss of revenue to the Railway Company incurred by the passenger having used an Advance ticket to a more distant station rather a ticket to the actual point of alighting, then we would expect that no action would be taken - perhaps just advice that it is not strictly permitted. Guidance was published a few years ago to advise that prosecution should not be pursued if there was no indication of significant loss to the industry. Unfortunately, that wording is open to interpretation, and of course a loss of just a few pounds could be 'significant' if it was a regular habit over 500 commuiting journeys each year.
It is not something that should be encouraged, and it remains a breach of the contract terms, which are quite clear and doing so could justify a prosecution if the proper fare for the actual journey taken is not paid on demand. But if there is a one-off incident or emergency which prompts the wish to abandon a journey early, then it would be appropriate to ask for permission and for that permission to be granted.
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On one occasion, I bought a London to Lichfield advance, but alighted at Tamworth as there was a road traffic accident at Lichfield. The price was exactly the same. Technically not allowed, but I didn't feel bad about it. I still paid the railway.
You're correct that technically it wasn't allowed but the railway industry guidance is to take no action if the customer isn't 'cheating' the system.
Barriers.
hantsman1205
Member
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There aren't any in my area.
Sorry, I didn't realise posters on this forum are required to limit themselves to situations that would only apply to you.
kieron
Established Member
One from the stop before yours would be less likely to attract suspicion, in the unlikely event that something other than a barrier looks at your ticket after you alight.
It'd be best, legally speaking, to obtain a ticket which is valid for your actual journey. I don't feel the rules for dealing with a situation where you have the wrong ticket unintentionally, or the publicity given to them, are very good at persuading the average passenger to do the right thing when something like that happens, though.
They can be sold an excess* to such a fare, yes.
But I am not sure that is what normally happens; staff are instructed not to charge anything except where the price to the station actually travelled to would have been a higher fare. It's very rare to hear of cases where passengers have been excessed, but such cases are enjoyed by the media (and the TOCs do not like the results, hence the instructions to staff not to do it!)
(* Sorry if that sounds pedantic; I am sure you meant an excess, but I am just clarifying for anyone who wasn't sure!)
Manual barriers.
No I didn't TBH, because I didn't realise the rules had changed so much in the passenger's favour, so thanks for pointing the error out.
I didn't realise posters on this forum are required to limit themselves to situations that would only apply to YOU (that is, stations with staffed barriers). The vast majority of stations do not have staffed barriers.
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No, none of those either. I realise this makes me look like I live in Greenland or somewhere but barriers are extremely rare beasts in my area!
The stations used by the majority of passengers do, however.
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