Lines that should be four track

[The Barlow Boy]

Presumably to run more services to/from Brighton in the peak. But where would they go when they got Croydon?

Well from East Croydon there's four tracks to Victoria via Balham and four tracks to London Bridge direct and fairly soon there'll be four tracks from London Bridge to the other side of Borough Market Junction.

 

[martinsh]

Is Crewe to Manchester or Stoke to Manchester four track?

Crewe - Manchester : currently 4 tracks Crewe - Sandbach, but no way of getting onto slow lines except from Crewe avoider (some idiot took out Sydney Bridge Junction a couple of years ago), loop at Chelford and Styal line available as alternative from Wilmslow. Four tracking probably not justified, but I would reinstate Sydney Bridge, loop near Goostrey, extra platform at Alderley Edge (to get terminating stoppers out of the way), reinstate loop north of Handforth, and 4 track Stockport - Cheadle Hulme.

Stoke - Machester : currently 2 tracks all the way. Ideally I would 4 track Kidsgrove - Stone, though Kidsgrove tunnel(s) would not be practical.
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Dr Days Junction to Filton.....I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but a very short sighted 1980's de-quadrifying IMO.

Scandalous if you ask me, and I thought so at the time.

I also agree with

Birmingham - Coventry
Coppermill Jcn - Broxbourne
Stalybridge - Huddersfield
Mirfield - Leeds (except Morley tunnel !)
Leeds - Micklefield
Tyseley - Dorridge

also
Wolverhampton - Birmingham
Kettering - Bedford (3 tracks is SILLY !)
Derby - Burton on Trent
Winsford - Weaver Junction
Didcot - Swindon (?)

 

[Ivo]

Three tracks for almost any route is silly.

I have to say that I disagree with Didcot to Swindon. Even come the IEP, there will still be only seven trains an hour (compare c2c who handle anything up to 20 at peak periods), all of which will be fast. I believe that adding new lines for freight exclusively could not be justified, unless of course it is intended to permit new passenger services (e.g. Bristol to Oxford once more, as I suggested earlier, and also a new station at Grove). Should this happen though, then I would be ready to reconsider.

 

[martinsh]

Three tracks for almost any route is silly.

I have to say that I disagree with Didcot to Swindon. Even come the IEP, there will still be only seven trains an hour (compare c2c who handle anything up to 20 at peak periods), all of which will be fast. I believe that adding new lines for freight exclusively could not be justified, unless of course it is intended to permit new passenger services (e.g. Bristol to Oxford once more, as I suggested earlier, and also a new station at Grove). Should this happen though, then I would be ready to reconsider.

What about Bath - Bristol (though obviously impractial) ?

 

[Twoonthebuzzer]

Gloucester to Kings Norton!

Cheltenham is a real bottleneck and could do with an extra platform for both directions!

Also, local FGW services to Worcester can become hourly then and also more freight paths will become available, especially for coal out of Portbury which currently goes the longer way north via Maindee and Abergavenny!

 

[YorkshireBear]

Sheffield - swinton junction Conflicting movements everywhere with rotheram loop, barrow hill loop and junction. Not possible in all places but possible in some, especially between rotheram loop and swinton.

 

[martinsh]

Sheffield - swinton junction Conflicting movements everywhere with rotheram loop, barrow hill loop and junction. Not possible in all places but possible in some, especially between rotheram loop and swinton.

When I lived in Sheffield that WAS 4 track ! Would have trouble with section immediately north of Sheffield station, but otherwise I agree

 

[Ivo]

What about Bath - Bristol (though obviously impractial) ?

"Impractical" is an understatement!

The problem this stretch of line has is the differing speeds of the services using it. If it was reasonably possible I would new stations at Saltford and St Anne's (east and west of Keynsham respectively). If this was to happen the there would probably be a necessity for the line to have at least passing loops, if not necessarily four tracks. It would be less of a problem if Bath had more than two platforms, but I feel that similarly-disadvantaged Chelmsford has a greater need.

I do agree on the need for Cheltenham to have an extra platform. As a potential solution, why not carve a bay platform into the southbound platform (there is plenty of room!) and run a shuttle to Gloucester, and then terminate more existing services there? That way the two through platforms at CNM should suffice, and it would allow the Worcester runs to become hourly. To facilitate this, all non-London terminators stop short at Gloucester, and a twice-hourly shuttle is run with a 150 (one unit would do). The services via Stroud could then terminate at Gloucester if short, connecting into a local 150, or as current if an HST. This would also mean that units no longer have to cross the lines north of the station.

 

[barrykas]

How about Marylebone - Aynho Junction, to seperate out fast and slow services? (I know, but I can always dream...)

And the erstwhile Hertford Loop would be nice, so that the local service doesn't go to pot when it's used as a diversionary route for the ECML.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[YorkshireBear]

When I lived in Sheffield that WAS 4 track ! Would have trouble with section immediately north of Sheffield station, but otherwise I agree

through Meadowhall would be difficult too but i guess you could use two tracks there to go to Hallam line, then 4 track again to try give Rotherham locals away from mainline. Prime example at Meadowhall this evening (waiting for 4492 dominion of New Zealand) and XC HST was held for 5 minutes under the motorway for a 142 to negotiate the junction

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

Manchester Piccadilly - Preston corridoor following electrification. Particuarly when you consider the dreadede Transpennine cross country services, regional/commuter services, Manchester airport services, increasing numbers of tours on that line and the potential for an increase in freight services.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Lostock Junction to Wigan Wallgate....with new relaid track fit for 21st century

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

Lostock Junction to Wigan Wallgate....with new relaid track fit for 21st century

Currently Pacer/sprinter heaven. One of the blandest rail routes in the north-west. Never heard or seen of ANY freight or tours using that route in the last few years!

Interesting to note that along that route between Westhoughton and Lostock there was a point where the route became 3 track as there was a 1/4 mile link or so to the Carnaud Metal Box which had a regular weekday freight service before closure.

In recent years Virgin Trains also ran a Voyager service which ran via Wigan NW - Manchester via Bolton in the late evening not so long ago, however, this was recently discontinued.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Currently Pacer/sprinter heaven. One of the blandest rail routes in the north-west. Never heard or seen of ANY freight or tours using that route in the last few years!

Interesting to note that along that route between Westhoughton and Lostock there was a point where the route became 3 track as there was a 1/4 mile link or so to the Carnaud Metal Box which had a regular weekday freight service before closure.

In recent years Virgin Trains also ran a Voyager service which ran via Wigan NW - Manchester via Bolton in the late evening not so long ago, however, this was recently discontinued.

I perhaps should have added that electrification should also be added and the route be used with the connection to Wigan North Western which would give, after electrification of the Manchester to Preston line, fast and semi-fast electric services, which would give another electric link from Manchester to the WCML in the Wigan area and act as a relief route also should engineering works close the Bolton to Preston section.

Correct me if I am wrong, but was Hindley station a four platform station, on this line?

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

I perhaps should have added that electrification should also be added and the route be used with the connection to Wigan North Western which would give, after electrification of the Manchester to Preston line, fast and semi-fast electric services, which would give another electric link from Manchester to the WCML in the Wigan area and act as a relief route also should engineering works close the Bolton to Preston section.

Correct me if I am wrong, but was Hindley station a four platform station, on this line?

Absolutely agree with this point and I can't understand why electrification of this section of track has'nt been considered.

Yes as Hindley did have a four station platform going back a few years now. I have also seen old photos of Crows Nest Junction where the lines towards Daisy Hill and Westhoughton were both 4 track.

Going back to your original point I do feel this line has been severley neglecgted over the last few years in terms of services, infrastructure, station upkeep and general attention which really seems such a shame given the huge passenger use in the south Bolton/north Wigan area.

 

[Waverley125]

Kings X-Doncaster. Particularly with post-HS2 service widenings even maintaining an hourly service to some places will be difficult.

 

[Zoe]

Kings X-Doncaster. Particularly with post-HS2 service widenings even maintaining an hourly service to some places will be difficult.

Would need quite a bit of work though:

Welwyn

Huntingdon to Connington

Connington to Peterborough

Stoke to Grantham

Grantham to Newark

Newark to Carlton

Carlton to Retford

Retford to Ranskill

Ranskill to Loversall Carr

Loversall Carr to Doncaster

I doubt anyone is going to be paying for all that.

 

[The Planner]

I see to remember you or someone saying that there were no paths for this last time I suggested it.

But if you aren't conflicting with anything at Kings Norton which helps and you shunt the cross city around the hour so you can slot in at Proof House or come across at Grand Jn onto the other side.

 

[thelem]

I would even suggest consideration is giving to diverting all West Coastway to London services to Brighton from both ends, and giving the Hove tunnel route a peaks-only service.

If you're proposing that they stop at Brighton but then continue on to littlehampton, then that won't work. There's only one platform that is accessible to both lines, and it can't take more than three carriages from the coastway.
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How much benefit would it give to four track most of a line - i.e. leave the difficult bits as two track but four track everything else.

It would allow the two tracks to be fully utilised, without leaving any margin for recovery time when trains are delayed (they would use the extra lines to catch up) and would make it much easier to timetable stopping and express services.

 

[Aictos]

Although it wouldn't mean 4 tracking in the true sense, by having loops at 3 key places on the Hertford Loop plus SIMBIDs signalling it would help improve capacity so much.

The loops ought to be provided by carrying out works at Gordon Hill (ensuring all 4 platforms can be used for though services), Hertford North (south of the station and able to take 400m trains) and at Langley Junction (on the Hertford Loop itself and able to take 400m trains).

This way, it would be possible to provide a basic half hourly service calling all stations as well as a basic half hourly express service for EC, HT and GC.

 

[PhilipW]

No need to 4-track from Darlington to Newcastle.

With the re-instatement od the Leamside Line plus upgrading from Norton Junction (Stockton) to Tursdale Junction (Ferryhill), you have in effect 4-tracks all the way from Northallerton to Newcastle, all at a fraction of the cost of actually 4-tracking the ECML itself. While you're at it, electrify it as well.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

:roll: The viaduct section between Manchester Piccadilly and Deansgate anyone?

 

[Railjet]

But if you aren't conflicting with anything at Kings Norton which helps and you shunt the cross city around the hour so you can slot in at Proof House or come across at Grand Jn onto the other side.

Kings Norton could become a horrible bottleneck if the Camp Hill line services are started.

 

[PinzaC55]

Reducing Huntingdon to Peterborough to 2 tracks was nuts. I think the only reason it was done was to save on the cost of catenary.

 

[323235]

Stafford to Colwich Junction

 

[OuterDistant]

Is Crewe to Manchester or Stoke to Manchester four track?

Neither is, AFAICR

 

[Fred26]

Reducing Huntingdon to Peterborough to 2 tracks was nuts. I think the only reason it was done was to save on the cost of catenary.

...And surely that's something that could be put back without too much effort.

 

[me123]

I'd like to see Queen Street-Greenhill done. It would allow you to improve the services calling at Bishopbriggs and Lenzie, and provide valuable paths to the North. It would make it easier for things such as an additional hourly Glasgow-Dundee service to operate, and open up space for 6 (or even 8 in the future) tph to Edinburgh. There's also scope to retain the services to Inverness (it has been suggested that they will all now come from Edinburgh IIRC?). You could perhaps divert the slow lines via Kirkintilloch to reopen the station there as well (although that's easier said than done now that the Kirky Link Road is open).

4-track Waverley-Drem (and perhaps as far as Dunbar) would be great. YOu could significantly improve both the ECML service, and the local service to East Lothian. It's a shame that it isn't feasible.

 

[Aictos]

...And surely that's something that could be put back without too much effort.

Indeed and at the same time, Stilton Fen ought to be reinforced and 4 tracked even if it was originally only 2 tracks.

If the Trent Valley can be de wired and have work done to permit 4 track running then it should not be difficult for Huntingdon to Peterborough to be done.

By doing this simple act, it vastly increases the capacity of the route as there is currently only one track for southbound services apart from the loop at Connington which is the only remaining part of the former Up Slow line.

 

[trainofhope]

Is Crewe to Manchester or Stoke to Manchester four track?

No But Picc to Crewe Crewe to picc is Bi directional so no great problems

Picc to Stoke not 4 track but does not really need it as there are a few passing places.