LNER Class 91/Mk4 service status/withdrawals/2021 refurbishment

[DanNCL]

As I mentioned in my earlier post I would be surprised if the pan head was being damaged on a regular basis. The pan head has carbon elements which contact the wire and these are the wearing parts. Minor OHL defects may cause the carbons to become chipped. In the event of more significant damage e.g. loss of a carbon, the pantograph will lower automatically to prevent damage to the OHL and/or the pantograph

I know it's the carbon strips rather than the entire pantograph head, but others might not which is why I simply referred to it as the "pantograph" rather than the carbon strip.

But is far easier for people who may not understand, if it is simply described as the pantograph.

That's exactly what I had in mind when describing the issue in my earlier posts.

 

[43367]

I think last I heard the location of the OHL that is causing the issues was originally thought to be in the Newark areas on the down line as it only the pantographs at the first class end of Azuma sets and the pointed cab end, think it's the no1 end, carbon that is showing damage this happened a few months back but there seemed to be a greater priority in finding the issue, with train pantographs examined at each stop and I think it was ultimately traced to a dropper hanging below the contact wore that was the cause.

It has also been mentioned that there was a nance it could be on the Airedale lines but then, as already mentioned, the northern emus would be even worse hit as they pass numerous times through the area each day so the damage would be worse.

 

[50039]

Forgive me if this has already been clarified - but is there a timetable change in December (similar to when the HSTs were retired), and if so - is there any impact anticipated to the current diagrams?

 

[DanNCL]

Forgive me if this has already been clarified - but is there a timetable change in December (similar to when the HSTs were retired), and if so - is there any impact anticipated to the current diagrams?

There will be a December timetable change, but the 91 diagrams are likely to remain very similar to what they currently are. I believe the diagrams for the new timetable have already been confirmed, although I’ve not seen them yet.

 

[Fuzzytop]

There was talk of adding a fourth daily diagram at one point, either at the December change or before - if you look at WhatDoTheyKnow, September's plan had some more booked work for them. I can't see much changing soon, given the current availability of the 91s and frequency of chipped pantographs.

 

[50039]

Thanks for the responses, much appreciated

 

[typetwos]

57310 took something on 5Q23 08:33 WORKSP UR to DONWKSWAB 22/10/21 but on trust doesnt say what it took though. Might have been Mk4's for refurbishment.

 

[warwickshire]

57310 took something on 5Q23 08:33 WORKSP UR to DONWKSWAB 22/10/21 but on trust doesnt say what it took though. Might have been Mk4's for refurbishment.

Possibly the next set for tfw ie a ex grand Central one maybe?.

 

[43367]

It was two ex GC sets
The old WB02 & WB03:
82227-11321-10330-12323-12461-12222-82200-11320-10321-12326-12477-12224

Info from another site

 

[800001]

I think last I heard the location of the OHL that is causing the issues was originally thought to be in the Newark areas on the down line as it only the pantographs at the first class end of Azuma sets and the pointed cab end, think it's the no1 end, carbon that is showing damage this happened a few months back but there seemed to be a greater priority in finding the issue, with train pantographs examined at each stop and I think it was ultimately traced to a dropper hanging below the contact wore that was the cause.

It has also been mentioned that there was a nance it could be on the Airedale lines but then, as already mentioned, the northern emus would be even worse hit as they pass numerous times through the area each day so the damage would be worse.

Currently believed to be between Skipton and Leeds, 91109 departed Skipton yesterday no damage, arrived Shipley with a chipped carbon strip, the set 1A13 also called Apperley Bridge and Kirkstall Forge where no other damage was found.
Monday 25th 1A13 **should** also call at Cononley, Steeton, Crossflats, Bingley and Saltaire where the pan head will be checked at each station.

 

[Swimbar]

Currently believed to be between Skipton and Leeds, 91109 departed Skipton yesterday no damage, arrived Shipley with a chipped carbon strip, the set 1A13 also called Apperley Bridge and Kirkstall Forge where no other damage was found.
Monday 25th 1A13 **should** also call at Connelly, Steeton, Crossgates, Bingley and Saltaire where the pan head will be checked at each station.

Presumably Cononley & Crossflatts!

 

[DanNCL]

Currently believed to be between Skipton and Leeds, 91109 departed Skipton yesterday no damage, arrived Shipley with a chipped carbon strip, the set 1A13 also called Apperley Bridge and Kirkstall Forge where no other damage was found.
Monday 25th 1A13 **should** also call at Cononley, Steeton, Crossflats, Bingley and Saltaire where the pan head will be checked at each station.

I’m surprised they’re not using 5D28 tonight as an opportunity to do that given 91110 is working it. Would have thought doing it on an ECS would be preferable to doing it on a passenger service.

 

[43367]

I just find it a little strange that the area that is causing the damage is on the Aire valley route as surely there would be more damage to northerns 331/333 fleet that go through the affected area numerous times in a day rather than a lco that goes through just once a day. As far am I am aware there has been no damage at all to northerns emu fleet, with the chips not just confined to the clas91 loco, there are also numbers Azumas with damaged pans too

 

[XCTurbostar]

I apologise if this has been mentioned previously but are the 225 sets still in use likely to see another livery? They appear very tired now compared to the Azumas.

 

[yorksrob]

Does anyone know whether the 21:00 or the 21:33 from Kings Cross to Leeds are likely to be mk 4's today ?

 

[Kieran1990]

Does anyone know whether the 21:00 or the 21:33 from Kings Cross to Leeds are likely to be mk 4's today ?

21:33 showing as an Azuma 801 106
21:00 is a Newcastle service so won’t be booked Cl91&Mk4

 

[DanNCL]

Does anyone know whether the 21:00 or the 21:33 from Kings Cross to Leeds are likely to be mk 4's today ?

19:33 and 23:00 are the only 91 departures from Kings Cross this evening.

The 21:33 was booked to be a 91 but has been swapped to an 800.

 

[yorksrob]

19:33 and 23:00 are the only 91 departures from Kings Cross this evening.

The 21:33 was booked to be a 91 but has been swapped to an 800.

Ah, cheers for the heads up !

 

[800001]

Does anyone know whether the 21:00 or the 21:33 from Kings Cross to Leeds are likely to be mk 4's today ?

2133 is azuma.
1N36 is next Mk4

 

[skyhigh]

Interestingly a 331 failed yesterday with damage to the pan carbons - are 91s still being affected?

 

[800001]

19:33 and 23:00 are the only 91 departures from Kings Cross this evening.

The 21:33 was booked to be a 91 but has been swapped to an 800.

Usual problem, chipped pantograph heads.
2 mk4 sets yesterday both with chips, so pan head changes at Neville Hill.
Been a block to electric traction leaving Neville Hill yesterday afternoon.
Any set leaving has had to take pictures before leaving and after arriving in Leeds.
And yes it is also affecting Northern units.

 

[59CosG95]

Usual problem, chipped pantograph heads.
2 mk4 sets yesterday both with chips, so pan head changes at Neville Hill.
Been a block to electric traction leaving Neville Hill yesterday afternoon.
Any set leaving has had to take pictures before leaving and after arriving in Leeds.
And yes it is also affecting Northern units.

Have the local OLE depot (Doncaster, I think - IDK if Leeds delivery unit has an OLE division) had a chance to view the problem stretch?

 

[800001]

Have the local OLE depot (Doncaster, I think - IDK if Leeds delivery unit has an OLE division) had a chance to view the problem stretch?

No idea. Network Rail are investigating, taking forever, but can not seem to find where it is an issue

 

[skyhigh]

No idea. Network Rail are investigating, taking forever, but can not seem to find where it is an issue

I understand Northern have identified the location of the issue with the pan cam footage off a 331 (and have passed the footage and GPS co-ordinates onto NR).

 

[3973EXL]

ROG STP 30/11

Realtime Trains - FRGT 1151 Doncaster Works Wagn Shops to Neville Hill T&R.S.M.D

5A17 37800 MK4s with DVT 82222

 

[NoOnesFool]

I just find it a little strange that the area that is causing the damage is on the Aire valley route as surely there would be more damage to northerns 331/333 fleet that go through the affected area numerous times in a day rather than a lco that goes through just once a day. As far am I am aware there has been no damage at all to northerns emu fleet, with the chips not just confined to the clas91 loco, there are also numbers Azumas with damaged pans too

Hopefully LNER will get their hands on some of Avanti's Voyagers when they are released. They will make a good back up for when the wires are out of use.

 

[Bald Rick]

Hopefully LNER will get their hands on some of Avanti's Voyagers when they are released. They will make a good back up for when the wires are out of use.

It would be foolish in the extreme to have a fleet of expensive diesel only trains on standby for the extraordinarily rare circumstance when the OLE is out of use AND the line remains open AND some sort the service can not be provided by the 23 bi modes LNER already have.

 

[Carlisle]

some sort the service can not be provided by the 23 bi modes LNER already have.

They could’ve diverted at least some Anglo Scottish services via Carlisle today instead of just cancelling everything north of Newcastle.

 

[DanNCL]

They could’ve diverted at least some Anglo Scottish services via Carlisle today instead of just cancelling everything north of Newcastle.

There aren’t enough bi-modes to do both Lincoln and Carlisle diversions at the same time. There’s just about enough to run one or the other, but not both.

 

[Carlisle]

There aren’t enough bi-modes to do both Lincoln and Carlisle diversions at the same time. There’s just about enough to run one or the other, but not both.

Ok thanks very much, didn’t realise that .