LNER Leeds to Edinburgh?

[raildemon]

With electrification between Leeds and York approaching, is there scope for a direct LNER Leeds to Edinburgh service?

Currently the only option direct is CrossCountry. They’re often short-formed, oversold and generally disliked.

There’d be great appetite for it. Why not?

 

[DarloRich]

There is already a direct service from Leeds to Edinburgh. The 07:XX runs every morning to Edinburgh. It was my train to work for a long time.

if you mean a more regular service I am not sure it could be accommodated in the timetable.

 

[Flying Snail]

There already is one and has been for a very long time, albeit once a day.

 

[55018ballymoss]

Always nice when someone types before checking the timetable.
There has been a northbound morning service with a balancing southbound service for many decades now…

 

[skyhigh]

if you mean a more regular service I am not sure it could be accommodated in the timetable.

No chance you'd fit another regular train in between Leeds and Church Fenton, let alone the rest of the route.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There is already a direct service from Leeds to Edinburgh. The 07:XX runs every morning to Edinburgh.

Not for much longer!

 

[TUC]

Always nice when someone types before checking the timetable.
There has been a northbound morning service with a balancing southbound service for many decades now…

One service a day is pretty meaningless.

 

[yoyothehobo]

Not for much longer!

I was going to say, isnt it being cut

 

[Tetchytyke]

Always nice when someone types before checking the timetable.

One train at 0710, which is really only for stock movement, is pretty meaningless. It’s also going with the 2025 timetable recast

 

[GordonT]

There is already a direct service from Leeds to Edinburgh. The 07:XX runs every morning to Edinburgh. It was my train to work for a long time.

if you mean a more regular service I am not sure it could be accommodated in the timetable.

I wonder if a small number of existing London-Leeds services might be extended to Edinburgh with a compensating slight reduction of existing direct LNER provision north of Doncaster? Similar in concept to the Avanti Euston-Birmingham-Glasgow journeys. However I've wandered into speculative territory.

 

[swt_passenger]

I wonder if a small number of existing London-Leeds services might be extended to Edinburgh with a compensating slight reduction of existing direct LNER provision north of Doncaster? Similar in concept to the Avanti Euston-Birmingham-Glasgow journeys. However I've wandered into speculative territory.

No. They’ve spent many years developing the Dec 2025 timetable, as you say it’s pure speculation to think it might be altered.

 

[nwales58]

1979 is the earliest I think I remember using it, though might be 1982. Did it come in with HSTs?

The real question is: what is the best use of limited paths north of York? In the current world of neo-TOCs pick the operator with the longest trains that fit and can provide (Manchester or elsewhere)-Leeds-Edinburgh-maybe beyond. 5 coach trains through a corridor at capacity is ridiculous. In GBR world an optimal solution will might of course be found.

 

[JKP]

With electrification between Leeds and York approaching, is there scope for a direct LNER Leeds to Edinburgh service?

Currently the only option direct is CrossCountry. They’re often short-formed, oversold and generally disliked.

There’d be great appetite for it. Why not?

If I recall correctly the line east out of Waverley is at or very nearly at capacity especially since the opening of the Borders Railway.

 

[yoyothehobo]

I wonder if a small number of existing London-Leeds services might be extended to Edinburgh with a compensating slight reduction of existing direct LNER provision north of Doncaster? Similar in concept to the Avanti Euston-Birmingham-Glasgow journeys. However I've wandered into speculative territory.

You could, however it really is just joining up two end to end journeys to make one.

You also really dont want to throw any more services through the East end of Leeds. It really doesnt take a lot for the whole thing to come crashing down with a single delayed train giving you 15 mins of delay through there and all of a sudden your delay repay and reiliability balloon.

At the moment i would hardly say the line east of Leeds to York that the trains are every full. I travel at rush hour between Leeds and York and you are very rarely unable to get a seat on any service, even when the 0808 XC service is a 4 car.

 

[Flying Snail]

1979 is the earliest I think I remember using it, though might be 1982. Did it come in with HSTs?

The real question is: what is the best use of limited paths north of York? In the current world of neo-TOCs pick the operator with the longest trains that fit and can provide (Manchester or elsewhere)-Leeds-Edinburgh-maybe beyond. 5 coach trains through a corridor at capacity is ridiculous. In GBR world an optimal solution will might of course be found.

The only sensible solution is dealing with the open wound of XC (and TP) capacity under-provision, everything on the core XC route should be minimum 8 car.

Adding a second operator to deal with the existing one using short trains is a ridiculous proposition.

 

[Acfb]

XC needs more rolling stock to run doubled up units all the time at least between Edinburgh and Birmingham IMO. I don't think more than a 1tph direct service with 9 coaches is required.

EDIT: just seen Flying Snail's post.

 

[dk1]

I wonder if a small number of existing London-Leeds services might be extended to Edinburgh with a compensating slight reduction of existing direct LNER provision north of Doncaster? Similar in concept to the Avanti Euston-Birmingham-Glasgow journeys. However I've wandered into speculative territory.

Definitely not. Would be a huge waste of recourses and not required.

Virgin combining the Euston-Wolverhampton and Birmingham-Scotland route was a sensible one combining two established services and providing direct opportunities for International & Coventry.

 

[Tetchytyke]

XC needs more rolling stock to run doubled up units all the time at least between Edinburgh and Birmingham IMO. I don't think more than a 1tph direct service with 9 coaches is required.

XC aren't actually that busy north of Newcastle IME. When the Newcastle-Reading services come back, a lot of the issues should go.

 

[Halish Railway]

With electrification between Leeds and York approaching, is there scope for a direct LNER Leeds to Edinburgh service?

Currently the only option direct is CrossCountry. They’re often short-formed, oversold and generally disliked.

There’d be great appetite for it. Why not?

If you were to run an additional West Yorkshire to Edinburgh service it’d be better to have it originate at Manchester or Liverpool, as was the case in the brief time from December 2019 until the start of the pandemic.

Hopefully once the Transpennine Route upgrade is complete this service can be reintroduced, especially if TPE order 200m long (8 carriage) units in the future as is widely believed to be the case.

 

[Western Gaffer]

If I recall correctly the line east out of Waverley is at or very nearly at capacity especially since the opening of the Borders Railway.

Perhaps services from Leeds to Edinburgh will use some of those paths again one of these days (don't hold your breath!)?

Rail Study to consider linking Leeds to Edinburgh using Settle to Carlisle

http://www.cravenherald.co.uk/news/15283363.Rail_study_looks_at_linking_Leeds_to_Edinburgh_along_historic_line/?ref=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter A SEVEN month long study has been launched to explore the potential of extending an historic Scottish railway to link with world famous...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Ollie29]

Always nice when someone types before checking the timetable.

He was only asking... Might have been an impromptu thought before then checking the timetable after this thread

 

[Snex]

I hope not, there's more than enough services to London from Newcastle already. It'd be nice to be able to go somewhere else rather than London via Leeds. If you want more Edinburgh services then extend the Transpennine Service through instead and open more links from places like Huddersfield to the North.

 

[amahy]

XC aren't actually that busy north of Newcastle IME. When the Newcastle-Reading services come back, a lot of the issues should go.

I remember travelling on XC pre Covid when they were running at full frequency, and it was never a pleasant experience. It’s only gonna get worse as more people use the railways in the UK.

 

[stevieinselby]

With electrification between Leeds and York approaching, is there scope for a direct LNER Leeds to Edinburgh service?

Currently the only option direct is CrossCountry. They’re often short-formed, oversold and generally disliked.

There’d be great appetite for it. Why not?

What's the relevance of electrification, when a large portion of the LNER fleet are bi-mode?
It would be better to strengthen the existing XCountry services rather than try to squeeze yet more trains onto an already overcrowded line.

 

[YorksLad12]

Always nice when someone types before checking the timetable.
There has been a northbound morning service with a balancing southbound service for many decades now…

Bit harsh. Especially as the one journey per day is going in the new timetable, starting back from London. So...

I hope not, there's more than enough services to London from Newcastle already. It'd be nice to be able to go somewhere else rather than London via Leeds. If you want more Edinburgh services then extend the Transpennine Service through instead and open more links from places like Huddersfield to the North.

What's the relevance of electrification, when a large portion of the LNER fleet are bi-mode?
It would be better to strengthen the existing XCountry services rather than try to squeeze yet more trains onto an already overcrowded line.

I've never liked the dead-end of Leeds services, and the introduction of bi-modes makes it seem even odder. Extending them to Newcastle would have been my preference rather than Edinburgh, but TPE already does that from Leeds, as does XC. When I travel to Edinburgh it's a train up to York (which could be XC or TPE!) then change to LNER. But if you extended only to York from Leeds, could that replace a London-York service, and free up a path south of Doncaster...?

 

[JonathanH]

I've never liked the dead-end of Leeds services

It is just like the dead end of Manchester services, or indeed London ones.

One of the reasons people don't like changing between long distance CrossCountry trains in Birmingham is because they have limited time to find their place on the platform, board and take their seat. Indeed, contrast boarding a CrossCountry and an LNER service in Leeds. I'm sure most people would say that they find the LNER experience better than the CrossCountry experience, literally because they have more time.

But if you extended only to York from Leeds, could that replace a London-York service, and free up a path south of Doncaster...?

That really slows down journeys between York and stations south of Doncaster, which is what the London to York services are about.

 

[waterboo]

Out of interest. Why is the direct Leeds to Aberdeen being removed?

How would Leeds crew retain route knowledge from Leeds - York - Newcastle (which I assumed was the biggest driver for retaining this service)?

 

[hexagon789]

1979 is the earliest I think I remember using it, though might be 1982. Did it come in with HSTs?

I believe it is essentially the successor to the old York-Aberdeen/Aberdeen-York which remained loco-hauled (with the down working extending to start from King's Cross at about 0550) after the HSTs were introduced on the London to Aberdeen services in May 1979 (only a partial ECML HST service started in May 1978 and that didn't include the Aberdeen service at that point).

The Leeds-Aberdeen HST itself and thus Azuma successor dates from when the Aberdeen ECML HST service was greatly augmented in May 1984 with 5 London bound services and 4 from London, plus the Leeds to Aberdeen an Edinburgh to Aberdeen and a late evening Aberdeen to Edinburgh, giving 7 IC125 services on the Edinburgh/Aberdeen corridor; an 8th working each was provided by the Aberdeen/Plymouth CrossCountry LHCS working and then the final two train pairs were ScotRail allocated stock (from 1986, Mk2 push-pull sets).

 

[Narrowgauge725]

If you were to run an additional West Yorkshire to Edinburgh service it’d be better to have it originate at Manchester or Liverpool, as was the case in the brief time from December 2019 until the start of the pandemic.

Hopefully once the Transpennine Route upgrade is complete this service can be reintroduced, especially if TPE order 200m long (8 carriage) units in the future as is widely believed to be the case.

It had the prospect of being great for me getting on in Huddersfield but it went non stop through Berwick Upon Tweed which is my normal journey.

 

[Western Lord]

Back in the day the morning Leeds to Edinburgh train was named "The North Briton". I remember using it in the early seventies.