• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

LNER to hire DB Cargo Class 90 - now 2x 90s

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Tim R-T-C

Established Member
Joined
23 May 2011
Messages
2,143
It has been rumoured for a while, standing in for frequent 91 failures.

How many Newark trains are there?

Why is it restricted to just these trains?

Time loss - the 90s only do 110mph - although they have previously been used on the Leeds services, but lose about 10 minutes or so.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,735
No VTEC Trains Terminate at Newark thou dothey? Also im gonna guess 90034 :p

1008, 1208, 1408, 1609 northbound departures to Newark

0700, 1324, 1524, 1721, 1925 arrivals from Newark at Kings Cross.

AIUI the paths were originally going to be used by Lincoln trains? In the opposite hours they tend to be services to/from York or further
 
Last edited:

IanXC

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
18 Dec 2009
Messages
6,369
No VTEC Trains Terminate at Newark thou dothey? Also im gonna guess 90034 :p

How many Newark trains are there?

Newark terminators look like this on a weekday:

(0535 NNG 1A00 KGX 0658)
1008 KGX 1B82 NNG 1133 (1)
1154 NNG 1B83 KGX 1322 (1)
1208 KGX 1B84 NNG 1334 (2)
1354 NNG 1B85 KGX 1522 (1)
1408 KGX 1B86 NNG 1532 (2)
1552 NNG 1B87 KGX 1719(2)
1609 KGX 1B88 NNG 1734 (1)
1754 NNG 1B89 KGX 1923 (1)

Which ignoring the early morning run into London, appears to give a plausible daily diagram (1) for a 90 hauled set...
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,964
Location
Redcar
AIUI the paths were originally going to be used by Lincoln trains? In the opposite hours they tend to be services to/from York or further

Yes they were originally to go onto Lincoln using the 180s that NXEC and later EC had secured for themselves (yet spent most of their time with Northern) but eventually EC decided to cut back the operation to Newark with only one return journey per day to Lincoln.
 

gsnedders

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2015
Messages
1,472
I presume 90+Mk4 set, if it's standing in for the 91? How often historically have the Mk4s been hauled by anything other than a 91, and by what?
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,964
Location
Redcar
Not very often at all as far as I'm aware. Certainly not in service anyway (they may have been hauled by odds and sods during delivery or being taken to/from refurbishment).
 

Ash Bridge

Established Member
Joined
17 Mar 2014
Messages
4,083
Location
Stockport
I presume 90+Mk4 set, if it's standing in for the 91? How often historically have the Mk4s been hauled by anything other than a 91, and by what?

The class 89 has been used with mk4 sets in past times, they have also been dragged in service with 91 attached, by class 47's and even 31's back in BR days.
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,110
Location
Macclesfield
I presume 90+Mk4 set, if it's standing in for the 91? How often historically have the Mk4s been hauled by anything other than a 91, and by what?
By class 90s frequently during both Intercity and GNER days, and by the class 89 following resurrection by GNER around the turn of the millennium (it never had much of an opportunity to work with mark 4 rakes prior to its' original withdrawal from service in September 1990).

As mentioned above, complete rakes with class 91 attached have also been dragged by class 47s, 67s and, historically, class 31s.
 
Last edited:

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,964
Location
Redcar
By class 90s frequently during both Intercity and GNER days, and by the class 89 following resurrection by GNER around the turn of the millennium (it never had much of an opportunity to work with mark 4 rakes prior to its' original withdrawal from service in September 1990).

Oh yes that's a good point. A 90 actually made it into GNER livery thinking about it:

800px-Liverpool_Street_station_GNER_class_90_loco.jpg
 

theblackwatch

Established Member
Joined
15 Feb 2006
Messages
10,725
90s were frequent on the ECML in the 90s....90024 even carried GNER colours. The hire rumour has been going round for several weeks and was confirmed by VTEC earlier today as going ahead.
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,110
Location
Macclesfield
Oh yes that's a good point. A 90 actually made it into GNER livery thinking about it:
Yes, although ironically as soon as it did so it seemed to spend more time being hired to Virgin on the West Coast than in use with GNER!
 
Last edited:

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,964
Location
Redcar
Yes, although ironically as soon as it did so it seemed to spend more time being hired to Virgin on the West Coast than in use with GNER!

And indeed the shot I linked to is at Liverpool Street rather than Kings Cross so still not on the right route for the livery :lol:
 

fgwrich

Established Member
Joined
15 Apr 2009
Messages
9,377
Location
Between Edinburgh and Exeter
And indeed the shot I linked to is at Liverpool Street rather than Kings Cross so still not on the right route for the livery :lol:

That seemed to be a standard trick for that particular loco, after spending more time on the West Coast working for VTWC in GNER colours, it was then of course repainted in First Scotrail colours for the Caley sleeper, and spent half its time on the GEML again. :lol:

Hence the reason why Virgin didn't end up having a Skoda painted to match the Pretendolino - because DB couldn't guarantee that it would stay with the set on the West Coast and wouldn't end up working in Anglia for GA/NX.
 

Tim R-T-C

Established Member
Joined
23 May 2011
Messages
2,143
The only shot I have of 024 in GNER colours is at Crewe dragging the Porterbrook liveried class 87, an odd combo indeed.
 

IanXC

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
18 Dec 2009
Messages
6,369
They're welcome to it, the bell-buzzerless guards worst nightmare of a loco.

I guess King's Cross, Stevenage and Peterborough have (CD/)RA equipment in place? But Grantham and Newark probably not? Does anyone recall the way of working last time 90s were in use on the ICEC operation?
 
Joined
10 Mar 2015
Messages
771
Up & down like a whores draws. Does my nut in (if I can remember) :oops:

Not to mention the coupling delivering a nice healthy kick when down road, "only to be used to Retford" sounds very similar to the "only to be used on ECS to Ilford" that we were fed!
 

Skimble19

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2009
Messages
1,491
Location
London
I guess King's Cross, Stevenage and Peterborough have (CD/)RA equipment in place? But Grantham and Newark probably not? Does anyone recall the way of working last time 90s were in use on the ICEC operation?

Platform staff dispatch using bats to the guard at Stevenage, think Kings Cross and Peterborough are the same although can't remember off the top of my head.
 
Joined
10 Mar 2013
Messages
1,010
No VTEC Trains Terminate at Newark thou dothey? Also im gonna guess 90034 :p

i think you'll find there are some that do unless they have been extended further north ...

as others have said these are the 'Lincoln' paths that don't have the stock( 180s / additional HSTs / bimode 80x) to support running to Lincoln at present
 
Last edited:

HA25322

Member
Joined
18 Aug 2014
Messages
344
Location
The Moon
I took this photo back in the day when it was in GNER livery at Leeds I believe.
url]
 
Last edited:

XCTurbostar

Established Member
Joined
13 Sep 2014
Messages
1,904
Nice to see VTEC using some initiative and covering for unavailable 91s, my bet is 90034 as well, I also don't think it will be repainted although it would be an interesting livery to say the least!

Thanks,
Ross
 

Bungle965

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
2 Jul 2014
Messages
2,952
Location
Calder Valley
Tony Miles has said on WNXX that the 90 will essentially be a stand by unit, in case for whatever reason a 91 cannot be used. He went on to say that in emergency they can be used on services terminating at Leeds and York.
Sam
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
29,731
Location
Fenny Stratford
Tony Miles has said on WNXX that the 90 will essentially be a stand by unit, in case for whatever reason a 91 cannot be used. He went on to say that in emergency they can be used on services terminating at Leeds and York.
Sam

Don't Lincolns inter work with Yorks?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top