LNR new WCML timetable, May 2019 (in open data feeds)

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by pt_mad, 20 Jan 2019.

  1. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

    Messages:
    2,459
    Joined:
    26 Sep 2011
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...7/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=LM

    Long distance wise, excluding services operating exclusively on the South WCML (not operating North of Northampton):

    Looking at a snapshot on RTT at LNR trains at Birmingham International on 27th May 19, the general hourly off peak pattern M - F. Correct if wrong.

    [Edit: Have taken previous general hourly pattern out of post due to route planners now showing some trains will join and split at Birmingham New St, to avoid complications and confusions. Further discussion of printed timetables and stopping patterns can be found between posters further in the thread].

    Also worth mentioning there are some services starting from or terminating at Coventry.

    Quite a drastic change as far as through WCML services go. Could it be the biggest change on the route since the Very High Frequency timetable was introduced into operation by Virgin Trains back in 2008?

    Like the idea of less trains starting and terminating at Birmingham New St. Capacity wise. Seems quite innovative. And appears the towns of Walsall and Cannock get their first ever off peak hourly service to London. And it appears Smethwick Galton Bridge and Penkridge do too.
    Also by default links the likes of Northampton, Coventry, Birmingham Intl, Marston Green etc directly to Liverpool with no changes.
     
    Last edited: 12 May 2019
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

    Messages:
    1,119
    Joined:
    4 Apr 2018
    This is all from May 2019? It would be the most radical change since 2008 on the WCML. I am looking forward to the changes and a ‘budget’ Liverpool-London service would be welcomed! Thanks for posting the timetable!
     
  4. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

    Messages:
    2,459
    Joined:
    26 Sep 2011
    Appears to be, from timetables published on Realtime Trains, Open Train Times, which afaik take their data from open rail data feeds. May is of course the major planned timetable change for LNR. And it was expected that less trains would start and terminate from Birmingham New St.
     
  5. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

    Messages:
    1,119
    Joined:
    4 Apr 2018
    It will be a major boost for passengers I suppose. Will they get more class 350’s from TPE by then for the new services as part of the timetable changes.
     
  6. thecrofter

    thecrofter Member

    Messages:
    97
    Joined:
    16 Dec 2011
    Yes indeed it is a major change on West Coast and West Midlands. WMT has based their new LNR and WMR timetable on the premise that most existing delays are caused at Birmingham New Street through turnaround times that can be virtually eliminated by passing services through rather than terminating. Walsall - Rugeley Electrification was key to this being a success and without it being ready one can see why DfT chose to postpone the change as it most likely would have been another GTR/Northern fiasco in waiting.
     
  7. ys123

    ys123 Member

    Messages:
    220
    Joined:
    13 Dec 2015
    Location:
    Manchester
    Hopefully
     
  8. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

    Messages:
    4,575
    Joined:
    3 May 2015
    Just analysing (for personal interest) connections at Nuneaton (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea.../0600-2000?stp=WVS&show=pax-callsℴ=wtt&toc=LM) to/from Stansted Airport services, particularly the Crewe-Euston.

    Stansted-bound works out at about 20 minutes or so, so could be competitive for some North West-East Anglia journeys with running direct Crewe-Stafford.

    Other way (Crewe-bound) is less competitive, with about 50 minutes at Nuneaton!
     
  9. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

    Messages:
    9,019
    Joined:
    15 Apr 2008
    Is it that radical? if it was a recast with new paths (which is nigh on impossible without a WCML re-write) then fair enough, but it is just gluing services together really.
     
  10. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

    Messages:
    1,119
    Joined:
    4 Apr 2018
    You are right. It is basically existing services extended or modified with no new paths but there are many major changes with a Liverpool-London Euston service introduced!
     
  11. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

    Messages:
    21,345
    Joined:
    12 Oct 2010
    Location:
    Work - Fenny Stratford(MK) Home - Darlington
    thanks - that is what i thought.

    Are there any "new" services? Whats is the impact on most important part of the line into Euston?
     
  12. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    39,571
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    I think the Brum to Crewe via Stoke one is the only wholly additional service. The rest are joined existing ones.

    The Liverpool one doesn't stop at Bletchley - shame, that would actually be useful!
     
  13. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

    Messages:
    1,119
    Joined:
    4 Apr 2018
    You are right.

    • Liverpool to London via Birmingham and Northampton is a merge between the existing Liverpool to Birmingham New Street service and Birmingham to London
    • Liverpool to Birmingham International is a merge between the existing Liverpool to Birmingham New Street service and the local Birmingham NS-International service
    • Crewe to London Euston via Stoke-on-Trent and Northampton: New Paths between Stafford and Birmingham to replace the existing Crewe to London service which will be diverted to run non-stop between Crewe and Stafford. This would use the second train path an hour between Euston and Birmingham.
    • Rugeley Trent Valley to London service is an extension to the WMR Birmingham NS-Rugeley via Walsall and merged with the the third London-Birmingham service.
    Instead of the current:

    • 2tph: London Euston to Tring
    • 1tph: London Euston to Milton Keynes Central
    • 3tph: London Euston to Birmingham New Street
    • 1tph: London Euston to Crewe via Trent Valley and Stoke
    • 2tph: Birmingham New Street to Liverpool Lime Street
    To the future:

    • 2tph: London Euston to Tring
    • 1tph: London Euston to Milton Keynes Central
    • 1tph: London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street via Birmingham
    • 1tph: London Euston to Rugeley Trent Valley via Walsall
    • 1tph: London Euston to Crewe via Trent Valley
    • 1tph: London Euston to Crewe via Birmingham and Stoke
    • 1tph: Birmingham International to Liverpool Lime Street
     
    Last edited: 20 Jan 2019
  14. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

    Messages:
    2,459
    Joined:
    26 Sep 2011
    Looking at it, it looks a more realistic connection alighting the local Leicester to Birmingham service which looks to arrive at Nuneaton around 43/44 past the hour, and connecting for Crewe services at around 5 to the hour. If traveling from East Anglia,would the journey times be better via the long connection at Nuneaton or Via Birmingham? I suspect with Crewe via the mainline it may still be faster via Nuneaton to say, Liverpool, Scotland or North Wales?
     
  15. Idon'tKnow

    Idon'tKnow Member

    Messages:
    116
    Joined:
    20 Aug 2016
    Location:
    Staffordshire
    The new timetable is bizzare.
    No trains from Lichfield (and Rugeley) to Stafford between 0802 and 0918 (a downgrade from the current morning peak services) but a 2144 (virgin) and new LNR services at 2149 and 2212 from Stafford to the Trent valley stations. I wonder why is there such an intensive service late night?!
     
  16. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

    Messages:
    2,459
    Joined:
    26 Sep 2011
    I suppose it could be seen as radical that connectivity is improving quite a bit for quite a lot of places. I.e. direct services instead of changing at Birmingham. It links more places to places without new paths, which seems quite a neat plan really. And it can boast new hourly London services for some decent towns, Cannock, Walsall, Smethwick, for the first-time ever. Which is probably quite a thing for them really. Especially considering its all on day one of the timetable, rather than Walsall gets a gradual introduction of daytime London services. It's a brand-new hourly service from the off. Without new capacity, paths, probably huge amounts of train crew being needed. Wonder whether LM planned anything similar with their bid.
     
  17. Idon'tKnow

    Idon'tKnow Member

    Messages:
    116
    Joined:
    20 Aug 2016
    Location:
    Staffordshire
    Hope the 350/4s from TPE arrive on time.
     
  18. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

    Messages:
    9,019
    Joined:
    15 Apr 2008
    Nope, joining the Liverpool to the International local.
     
  19. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

    Messages:
    1,119
    Joined:
    4 Apr 2018
    Do you mean that the Liverpool to Birmingham NS service will be joined to the Birmingham New Street to Birmingham International? In other words no new path
     
  20. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

    Messages:
    39,571
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2014
    Location:
    Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
    It’s probably a natural continuation of what LM did - after all the Trent Valley service didn’t even need to go to Euston at all per spec!
     
  21. sufian123

    sufian123 Member

    Messages:
    810
    Joined:
    1 May 2017
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Birmingham Airport to new st shuttle will be extended to Liverpool picking the xx36 path at new st. This happens now 0718 airport-Liverpool service. This from May will happen regularly.
     
  22. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

    Messages:
    1,119
    Joined:
    4 Apr 2018
    Thanks
     
  23. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

    Messages:
    2,459
    Joined:
    26 Sep 2011
    I expect the use of electric stock to Rugeley will free up some diesel units for use elsewhere. Not sure whether these would be used to provide the extra workings on the Shrewsbury Route. Possibly.
     
  24. sufian123

    sufian123 Member

    Messages:
    810
    Joined:
    1 May 2017
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Including Hereford as well desperately needed. Half an hourly service between new st-Shrewsbury both ways. Also hourly Sunday service.
     
  25. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

    Messages:
    2,459
    Joined:
    26 Sep 2011
    Is there a class 153 sometimes attached to a 170 on the Chase Line currently?
     
  26. sufian123

    sufian123 Member

    Messages:
    810
    Joined:
    1 May 2017
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Yes. Common ones I know is 1042 bhm-rgl and 1112 to rgl.
     
  27. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

    Messages:
    2,459
    Joined:
    26 Sep 2011
    Wonder where that will end up, unless transferring to EMT?
     
  28. sufian123

    sufian123 Member

    Messages:
    810
    Joined:
    1 May 2017
    Location:
    Birmingham
    153s will end up with emt. Not till class 172/0 arrives.
     
  29. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

    Messages:
    2,459
    Joined:
    26 Sep 2011
    On a slightly related note, when 350s work to Euston in multiples, where does auto Annie announce first class as being located? 'First class is one third and two thirds along the train'???
     
  30. TheBigD

    TheBigD Member

    Messages:
    787
    Joined:
    19 Nov 2008
    Will be interesting to see the PPM once these services cross Birmingham services start and late running is transfered on to other routes, especially during times of disruption. I suspect, but hope I'm wrong, that reliability, or rather the lack of, will be a major issue.
     
  31. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

    Messages:
    2,459
    Joined:
    26 Sep 2011
    And I wonder what will use the bay platform at New St instead of the Liverpool? Maybe the Shrewsbury's will, with Liverpools requiring a through platform?
     

Share This Page