LNR new WCML timetable, May 2019 (in open data feeds)

[DavidGrain]

I was once on a train from London which was due to split at Northampton but there was a crew problem so it was decided to split at Rugby. Some train spotters were on the train who said that they needed to move to the front of the train as it was going to Rugby. I told them that the back of the train was also going to Rugby. They looked at me as if I were mad.

 

[driver_m]

8 car sets have ran to Liverpool on a number of occasions already.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You cant but its authorised for unit deselect there. I've not seen any weekday 8 car but on a Saturday theres plenty of 8 cars to Liverpool from 25th May

Talking of which, I wonder why it's only the Northampton-Euston "pocket timetable" that gets the train lengths printed on it? It'd be useful to have them on all of them. This has been true right back to Silverlink days.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

LNR are going to have to be careful with the PIS at stations and on trains with so much dividing en route northbound.
The Crewe/Rugeley splitter looks particularly vulnerable at New St, the two portions heading off in different directions at the same time.
At least the 350s have side panels to clarify the destination of that particular unit.
The railway in general is not very good at small things like that, especially at times of disruption.
The old music hall number "Oh Mr Porter" could be back to haunt them if they get it wrong.
Listing all the station calls on the board at Euston will be a bit of a challenge too, where places like Acton Bridge, Landywood and Bloxwich North will be appearing for the first time!
It is currently quite common to board an LNR Liverpool service at Birmingham with the PIS still set to the incoming service from Liverpool.
You can be well into the tunnel before the crew, who are often late arriving, reset the PIS to the correct journey.
That kind of thing will have to improve with the new service.

 

[RealTrains07]

But that doesn't account for two of those destinations being served by one train between Euston and New St which then splits off.

I thought people were saying the Liverpool and Rugeley is one 8 car train to Birmingham, then splitting off. So how does that explain 3tph Euston to Birmingham departures?

Another poster wrote that there will be 2tph Rugeley services from Euston with one splitting off from a Liverpool and the other tph from Euston being to Crewe via Birmingham?
I didn't think 2 trains per hour London to Rugeley was announced so doesn't sound quite right somehow?

Thats wrong, their are no joint liverpool and rugeley trains. The only service joint with a rugeley train is the crewe via stoke and that isnt all day

Basically:
Like i said before 3 tph leave london
(as other posts above will show)

The Liverpool train leaves euston as an 8 car, this splits Northampton with 1 half going back to euston

The rugeley train leaves euston 8 car, again splitting at Northampton.

This is also the same with the crewe train
(when its not joint with a rugeley train)

The only long distance 8 car train beyond Northampton is the crewe train when its joint with rugeley. Otherwise all are 4 car

Even when the crewe/rugeley are joined their are still 3tph: (on birmingham line)

1) liverpool
2) rugeley
3) crewe OR crewe/rugeley joint

Rugeley will often get 2tph but still only 3 tph going brum way leave euston

(Trains going back southbound back to london however is another story)

Think thats how it will work

 

[OrangeJuice]

Thats wrong, their are no joint liverpool and rugeley trains. The only service joint with a rugeley train is the crewe via stoke and that isnt all day

Basically:
Like i said before 3 tph leave london
(as other posts above will show)

The Liverpool train leaves euston as an 8 car, this splits Northampton with 1 half going back to euston

The rugeley train leaves euston 8 car, again splitting at Northampton.

This is also the same with the crewe train
(when its not joint with a rugeley train)

The only long distance 8 car train beyond Northampton is the crewe train when its joint with rugeley. Otherwise all are 4 car

Even when the crewe/rugeley are joined their are still 3tph: (on birmingham line)

1) liverpool
2) rugeley
3) crewe OR crewe/rugeley joint

Rugeley will often get 2tph but still only 3 tph going brum way leave euston

(Trains going back southbound back to london however is another story)

Think thats how it will work

Thanks for clarifying that with regards to the number of coaches between Birmingham and Northampton

 

[driver_m]

Thats wrong, their are no joint liverpool and rugeley trains. The only service joint with a rugeley train is the crewe via stoke and that isnt all day

Basically:
Like i said before 3 tph leave london
(as other posts above will show)

The Liverpool train leaves euston as an 8 car, this splits Northampton with 1 half going back to euston

The rugeley train leaves euston 8 car, again splitting at Northampton.

This is also the same with the crewe train
(when its not joint with a rugeley train)

The only long distance 8 car train beyond Northampton is the crewe train when its joint with rugeley. Otherwise all are 4 car

Even when the crewe/rugeley are joined their are still 3tph: (on birmingham line)

1) liverpool
2) rugeley
3) crewe OR crewe/rugeley joint

Rugeley will often get 2tph but still only 3 tph going brum way leave euston

(Trains going back southbound back to london however is another story)

Think thats how it will work

I’m not seeing a regular splitting of any services at Northampton in the timings. I’ve seen a couple of class 3 empties but not a daily hourly split. Everything appears to be through at Northampton. There is a terminator at MK though, as well as Tring. Still only seeing one regular join and split at New St.

 

[OrangeJuice]

I’m not seeing a regular splitting of any services at Northampton in the timings. I’ve seen a couple of class 3 empties but not a daily hourly split. Everything appears to be through at Northampton. There is a terminator at MK though, as well as Tring. Still only seeing one regular join and split at New St.

Another thought I've just had, would there be enough stock to run 8 car trains through to Rugeley/Liverpool or would splitting at Northampton be required to ensure 8 cars south of Northampton (to London)?

 

[RealTrains07]

Thanks for clarifying that with regards to the number of coaches between Birmingham and Northampton

I hope its right, interpreting a timetable this has been difficult for all of us at some point, gotta love LNR

 

[driver_m]

Another thought I've just had, would there be enough stock to run 8 car trains through to Rugeley/Liverpool or would splitting at Northampton be required to ensure 8 cars south of Northampton (to London)?

You’d have to ask someone with diagramming knowledge, but seeing as LNR have had an influx of 319s to deal with presumably the MK and Tring stuff. There should be enough sets. If the Crewe Tv services are self contained 8 cars then it “should” be fine.

 

[RealTrains07]

I’m not seeing a regular splitting of any services at Northampton in the timings. I’ve seen a couple of class 3 empties but not a daily hourly split. Everything appears to be through at Northampton. There is a terminator at MK though, as well as Tring. Still only seeing one regular join and split at New St.

Another thought I've just had, would there be enough stock to run 8 car trains through to Rugeley/Liverpool or would splitting at Northampton be required to ensure 8 cars south of Northampton (to London)?

1 Regular split at N street will be the crewe/rugeley joint

1 Regular join at N street will probably be the southbound from liverpool joining up the southbound from crewe

The information i have is based on what other posts have said plus the train length changes/platform capacity

As far as i know the crewe via stoke trains (not joint) split at Northampton

Whether that is the same as the others i don’t know for sure but I doubt that both the liverpool trains and the rugeley trains would run 8 car splitting at brum as that defeats the object of the timetable which was to reduce the train turnarounds at brum

From what it shows in the timings, is their a regular split at MK? as the liverpool nor the rugeley trains are regular stoppers at tring

It would make sense splitting at Northampton since like orange says, the 4 cars would join up again going back south beyond Northampton surely?

Plus considering platform capacity north of rugby as well as north of brum on the liverpool line and walsall line

 

[driver_m]

This is for @RealTrains07 Go on real-time trains on a typical midweek date and correlate what goes in and what goes back out of platforms. There aren’t any splits regularly happening at Northampton. I’ve posted a split and join at New St as you've referred me to look at! Given that LNR will be doing the exact same thing we do at VT. Then look at our trains that join /split at Crewe or Chester to see what I mean. The 1810 1J32 to Wrexham off Euston splits at Chester. It is 1J32 throughout, but a 1D92 portion appears to start at Chester. This is the rear portion of the train, as that has split, that only shows as starting at Chester. This is how LNR are doing the splits/joins at New St.

 

[RealTrains07]

I understand what you mean, at the end of the day just need confirmation of how many trains are splitting at new street??

That would solve the whole discussion i think?

Regarding Northampton, previous posts said that the regular split was the case with the crewe train but obvs they were wrong
This timetable is complicated regarding the splits and slightly overwhelming

Just wish LNR could be more informative about things like this

 

[sd0733]

Talking of which, I wonder why it's only the Northampton-Euston "pocket timetable" that gets the train lengths printed on it? It'd be useful to have them on all of them. This has been true right back to Silverlink days.

I believe they also use them on the cross-city with th 323s. But yes never seen it on a northern 350.route although up until now for the few non 4 car workings probably wasnt worth it.

 

[sd0733]

You’d have to ask someone with diagramming knowledge, but seeing as LNR have had an influx of 319s to deal with presumably the MK and Tring stuff. There should be enough sets. If the Crewe Tv services are self contained 8 cars then it “should” be fine.

The trent valley definitely isnt self contained. Looking at our new jobs we do a Crewe-Euston-Tring-Euston-Northampton on one job, sane unit throughoutand a.lot of Crewe-Euston-Northampton work and vice versa straight back out of Euston on the Same unit.

 

[RealTrains07]

Anyone know what trains are timetabled to replace the 319s on the abbey line. Ive heard rumours of 350s running there eventually

 

[Bletchleyite]

Anyone know what trains are timetabled to replace the 319s on the abbey line. Ive heard rumours of 350s running there eventually

Once the 319s go I would expect indeed a 350, but that'll be a while yet.

 

[driver_m]

The trent valley definitely isnt self contained. Looking at our new jobs we do a Crewe-Euston-Tring-Euston-Northampton on one job, sane unit throughoutand a.lot of Crewe-Euston-Northampton work and vice versa straight back out of Euston on the Same unit.

Ok. Thought I’d read elsewhere from staff it was.

 

[Silverlinky]

The trent valley definitely isnt self contained. Looking at our new jobs we do a Crewe-Euston-Tring-Euston-Northampton on one job, sane unit throughoutand a.lot of Crewe-Euston-Northampton work and vice versa straight back out of Euston on the Same unit.

At least you have your new jobs/diagrams!!

Interesting that Crewe conductors will work to Tring.....that seems to go against what we were told about 319's covering most Tring services.

 

[sd0733]

Ok. Thought I’d read elsewhere from staff it was.

The problem with the trent is the 56 minute turnaround at Euston, certainly of all the jobs we work the units and crews inter work.

 

[driver_m]

The problem with the trent is the 56 minute turnaround at Euston, certainly of all the jobs we work the units and crews inter work.

And then as we all know, things go bang. Hanslope Jn has just gone belly up so something like that will be a huge test of your new workings!!

 

[sd0733]

And then as we all know, things go bang. Hanslope Jn has just gone belly up so something like that will be a huge test of your new workings!!

Exactly, some decent turnaround times are often a godsend at the moment. There is one job where we arrive at Euston and have 9 mins to detrain, lock it up, driver to do a prep on the rear cab and allow passengers back on and depart again...no chance.
It does concern us some of the turnaround times at Euston

 

[pt_mad]

The trent valley definitely isnt self contained. Looking at our new jobs we do a Crewe-Euston-Tring-Euston-Northampton on one job, sane unit throughoutand a.lot of Crewe-Euston-Northampton work and vice versa straight back out of Euston on the Same unit.

At least you have your new jobs/diagrams!!

Interesting that Crewe conductors will work to Tring.....that seems to go against what we were told about 319's covering most Tring services.

Does that mean 350/1s /3s and eventually 4s running to Tring?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does that mean 350/1s /3s and eventually 4s running to Tring?

They already do and have for years. All the 350s are used interchangeably at the moment.

 

[RealTrains07]

Does anyone know which 8 car trains are splitting where in the new timetable??

 

[sufian123]

Does anyone know which 8 car trains are splitting where in the new timetable??

Most at new st

 

[RealTrains07]

Most at new st

I mean specifically which services apart from the crewe/rugeley splitter

 

[sufian123]

I mean specifically which services apart from the crewe/rugeley splitter

Northampton should be one place as wlel

 

[RealTrains07]

Northampton should be one place as wlel

That what i thought and heard but apparently not, Northampton dosent have regular train splits

 

[sufian123]

That what i thought and heard but apparently not, Northampton dosent have regular train splits

Yes it does joins and spilts. Coventry sometimes as well