Loading non protected Priv onto Oyster

[theageofthetra]

We were advised a few weeks back via the Rail Delivery Group (formerly ATOC) that non protected Priv could be loaded onto Oyster to give Priv discount on Oyster fares on National Rail & London Overground (+ some other oddities like Upminster services)

I have now tried several main London stations and can't find one were staff have a clue how to do this. Has anyone had any luck? I'm getting increasingly annoyed at paying full Oyster fares on London Overground because there is no ticket office open or if it is they refuse to issue perfectly valid cross London Priv tickets. Has anyone else found the situation deteriorating?

 

[Andrew1395]

For safeguarded priv I have found no problem with staff being able to load the discount at both Euston and Euston Square underground stations. Not sure what the difference would be for non safeguarded,- surely just the paper RSTL document would vary between the two types of staff travel?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

For safeguarded priv I have found no problem with staff being able to load the discount at both Euston and Euston Square underground stations. Not sure what the difference would be for non safeguarded,- surely just the paper RSTL document would vary between the two types of staff travel?

The difference is that the non-safeguard Oyster won't give PRIV discount on any journey where there is use of the London Underground, even on cross-London journeys, it is literally just National Rail journeys.

 

[theageofthetra]

The difference is that the non-safeguard Oyster won't give PRIV discount on any journey where there is use of the London Underground, even on cross-London journeys, it is literally just National Rail journeys.

That's not correct- the Rail delivery group website says it does provide a priv discount when you travel accross London using LU. It wouldn't be valid say Victoria- Oxford Circus though but Sevenoaks- Cambridge would.Unfortunately I can't attach the screenshot from the new RDG website.

 

[RJ]

That's not correct- the Rail delivery group website says it does provide a priv discount when you travel accross London using LU. It wouldn't be valid say Victoria- Oxford Circus though but Sevenoaks- Cambridge would.Unfortunately I can't attach the screenshot from the new RDG website.

It is correct. The Priv Oyster doesn't give a discount on any journey involving use of the London Underground. It is a policy decision not to allow the discount to be loaded at London Underground stations for this reason.

As for stations where it can be loaded, try any Thameslink run ticket office between West Hampstead Thameslink and Blackfriars. Also East Croydon or any London Overground run ticket office, excepting those on the New Cross Gate to West Croydon/Crystal Palace route.

 

[fireftrm]

Semantics - but theageofthetra had missed the point that there is no discount on LU fares, but that cross London tickets can be purchased with a non-protected staff discount card at Priv rates. This does not mean that there is any discount on the LU part of the fare, rather it is on the fare total. As it happens there will be a discount of the LU part by default, as the ticket price is made up of the NR journey and connecting tube service, but not as a purchase in its own right. So both sides are right and both sides are wrong? RJ makes a different point about discounts using an Oyster card, as opposed to cross London Journeys which ageof and hairhanded were discussing

 

[theageofthetra]

Yes, it is correct. As stated the Priv Oyster doesn't give a discount on any journey involving use of the London Underground. It is a policy decision not to allow the discount to be loaded at London Underground stations for this reason.

As for stations where it can be loaded, try any Thameslink station between West Hampstead Thameslink and Blackfriars. Also East Croydon or any London Overground run ticket office, excepting those on the New Cross Gate to West Croydon/Crystal Palace route.

Apologies we are getting our wires crossed. You are quite correct regarding non protected priv Oyster not giving discount on LU- I was referring to a seperate issue of buying paper tickets for a cross London journey and some national rail ticket office staff not knowing how to sell them.Back to the Oyster issue I have been advised by a colleague that they managed to get the Oyster Priv loaded at Victoria LU station. Apparently a LU employee went into some staff mode on the ticket machine and loaded a rail only priv discount so will try there.

 

[fireftrm]

Buying a normal ticket, which happens to include crossing London, should be straightforward - just ask for the journey and, if there is a non-London option, state via London. I have never had an issue with this and made many journeys including a tube connection. The last one was York to Guildford including cross London, I used Kings Cross to Oxford Circus to Waterloo for the connection, very straightforward and all on a Priv rate off peak return.

 

[RJ]

Apologies we are getting our wires crossed. You are quite correct regarding non protected priv Oyster not giving discount on LU- I was referring to a seperate issue of buying paper tickets for a cross London journey and some national rail ticket office staff not knowing how to sell them.Back to the Oyster issue I have been advised by a colleague that they managed to get the Oyster Priv loaded at Victoria LU station. Apparently a LU employee went into some staff mode on the ticket machine and loaded a rail only priv discount so will try there.

Fair enough - apologies for missing that.

The last time I read the entry in the Knowledgebase a few weeks ago, it said the NR only discount wasn't available from LU stations. I'm only aware of three options available on those machines;

Priv All Rail for safeguarded staff
Priv All Rail minus season ticket discounts
TfL Only - for Eurostar/East Coast/GTR staff and LU staff's dependants.

It's possible your colleague is getting a discount they aren't entitled to. That said this may well have changed - can anyone who works on the stations side confirm? There is a list of stations on the ATOC website where the discount should be available. It says all London Overground stations - maybe ELL south stations can do it after all. Despite Schedule 17 stating Shere Smart is the approved TIS at those stations, I'm pretty sure Forest Hill at least uses FasTIS, which is what is used to load Oyster products.

All staffed London Overground and TfL Rail (Liverpool St-Shenfield line) stations
Barking
Brimsdown
Broxbourne
Cheshunt
City Thameslink
Drayton Park
East Croydon
Enfield Lock
Essex Road
Farringdon
Fenchurch Street
Finsbury Park
Gatwick Airport (South Terminal arrivals desks)
Hertford East
Limehouse
London Blackfriars
London Liverpool Street
London Marylebone
London St. Pancras (Thameslink ticket office)
London Victoria
Northolt Park
Northumberland Park
Ponders End
Rye House
St Margarets
Tottenham Hale
Upminster
Waltham cross
Ware

 

[theageofthetra]

Fair enough - apologies for missing that.

The last time I read the entry in the Knowledgebase a few weeks ago, it said the NR only discount wasn't available from LU stations. I'm only aware of three options available on those machines;

Priv All Rail for safeguarded staff
Priv All Rail minus season ticket discounts
TfL Only - for Eurostar/East Coast/GTR staff and LU staff's dependants.

It's possible your colleague is getting a discount they aren't entitled to. That said this may well have changed - can anyone who works on the stations side confirm? There is a list of stations on the ATOC website where the discount should be available. It says all London Overground stations - maybe ELL south stations can do it after all. Despite Schedule 17 stating Shere Smart is the approved TIS at those stations, I'm pretty sure Forest Hill at least uses FasTIS, which is what is used to load Oyster products.[/QUOT

East Croydom is on that list and one example of a station where the staff didn't have a clue how to load it.

 

[RJ]

It isn't rocket science - we had a FasTIS at Euston LM when I worked there and it was straight forward to access that menu.

Ticket offices are unfortunately one of those places where you might have to shop around, as a lot are staffed by people who are stumped by requests for basic services like this. You're in luck if you get someone who is good at the job. I can vouch for St Pancras Thameslink - they'll do it.

 

[theageofthetra]

It isn't rocket science - we had a FasTIS at Euston LM when I worked there and it was straight forward to access that menu.

Ticket offices are unfortunately one of those places where you might have to shop around, as a lot are staffed by people who are stumped by requests for basic services like this. You're in luck if you get someone who is good at the job. I can vouch for St Pancras Thameslink - they'll do it.

Yes will try that- could I take my partners one along too and get hers done or will she need to be in person?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Well I must have mis-read this.....

....For through National Rail journeys crossing London on LU or DLR, it is
cheaper to purchase a single or return privilege rate paper ticket for the whole
journey from a National Rail station, as these tickets already include LU/DLR
availability for crossing London....

... on the non-safeguarded Priv Oyster .pdf file on the RDG website.

http://www.raildeliverygroup.com/files/Publications/services/rst/RST_NR_Only_Priv_Oyster.pdf

 

[theageofthetra]

Thanks for that PDF I'll take it along with me when I get it loaded- though as I said previously they didn't have a clue at East Croydon on how to do it. Is there a similar PDF for the cross London journey bit? - would be handy to take along for the next time I try to do a cross London journey with a paper ticket and get told incorrectly by the ticket office that it can't be done.

 

[74A]

I got mine done at Imperial Wharf a couple of months ago. The first person I spoke to didn't have a clue. I was about to give up when they called the supervisor over who said Oh yes I know how to do this and did it in about 30 seconds.

 

[43094]

I did mine at Gatwick Airport. One of the two clerks was completely baffled by how to do it (and also didn't think the discount should be allowed in the first place).

The other clerk did know how to do it (and that it was valid), and said so to the first clerk, who eventually reluctantly processed it.

I haven't tried to use it since though...

 

[theageofthetra]

I've just tried doing this at Embankment and there was no option for Priv 'rail only'- what EXACTLY is the one they should select when in staff mode.

 

[RJ]

I've just tried doing this at Embankment and there was no option for Priv 'rail only'- what EXACTLY is the one they should select when in staff mode.

It is a policy decision not to allow the discount to be loaded at London Underground stations because it isn't valid on LU services (barring those shown in the PDF I linked to). You have to try your luck at one of the stations in the list on the ATOC website.

 

[theageofthetra]

Ok this has now taken a new twist. My other half who doesn't work for my TOC took her partners Priv and TOC travel card to Victoria national rail tickets office and they loaded the 'rail only' discount on. I'll go there myself and do the same next time I'm up there.

This has now created another issue. Because over Christmas she doesn't bother with a monthly or weekly point to point ticket she uses her Oyster to get to or from work. So of course she has tapped in at Victoria and out and Beckenham Jct once they had loaded it and its charged her the reduced fare.

I presume technically this isn't allowed as surely priv should only be for leisure travel.

Does this mean she now has to get another Oyster card which she uses to commute on those days over the year she doesn't have a weekly or monthly (not that often to be honest) or alternatively use contactless? Or am I worrying unnecessarily as its probably only 10 days a so a year she uses Oyster to commute?

 

[bb21]

I wouldn't worry about it for 10 days a year if I were you.