London Bridge - new timetable during reconstruction works commencing 5th January 2015

[sarahj]

Agree with you SarahJ, but Phil Hufton (NR's new Network Director) promised the 'one station' approach for passenger-facing staff - I quote from his letter to Claire Perry:
"In the future Network Rail, Southern, Thameslink and Southeastern staff working at London Bridge will all wear identical tabards to present an easily identifiable single team focussed on provision of customer service to passengers".

Well its one thing to promise. But if everyone is looking the same, how are we mere train staff supposed to know who is dispatching us. I'm waiting for the tip and the person who I thought was dispatch is just a 'customer facing role' person. Delays and confusion. Perhaps the letter should have been, 'all wearing the same, except for operational reasons where this is NOT possible'.

 

[infobleep]

Well its one thing to promise. But if everyone is looking the same, how are we mere train staff supposed to know who is dispatching us. I'm waiting for the tip and the person who I thought was dispatch is just a 'customer facing role' person. Delays and confusion. Perhaps the letter should have been, 'all wearing the same, except for operational reasons where this is NOT possible'.

Out of interest, does anyone know how people coped before high visibility jackets? Was there confusion then?

 

[Busaholic]

Out of interest, does anyone know how people coped before high visibility jackets? Was there confusion then?

Peaked caps - as with the traditional police helmet, the advent of women in the job too saw its demise, together with the understandable reluctance of younger members of staff to wear such old-fashioned garb.

 

[Aictos]

Well its one thing to promise. But if everyone is looking the same, how are we mere train staff supposed to know who is dispatching us. I'm waiting for the tip and the person who I thought was dispatch is just a 'customer facing role' person. Delays and confusion. Perhaps the letter should have been, 'all wearing the same, except for operational reasons where this is NOT possible'.

Simple solution would be Blue or Yellow for Non Safety Critical roles and Orange for Safety Critical roles with no company branding but with name badges stating employer, job title and name of employee as is the case a moment with GTR.

That way it makes it easier for you mere train staff to easily ID between a Dispatcher and Customer Assistance Team Member.

 

[infobleep]

Peaked caps - as with the traditional police helmet, the advent of women in the job too saw its demise, together with the understandable reluctance of younger members of staff to wear such old-fashioned garb.

Thank for that. Caps are old fashioned. The police still use them mind you.

 

[306024]

Some call it padding. Some call it realism. Good performance is never 'over the top'

All these extra people the railway is carrying have to get on and off the trains somewhere, and that is extending dwell times. That time has to go into the timetable somewhere.

Quite. In a number of places timetables are struggling to keep up with the ever increasing passenger demand. The extra time allowed in schedules for temporary speed restrictions usually masks the longer than planned station dwell times, until there is actually a 20mph temporary speed restriction somewhere, at which point timekeeping becomes a struggle.

The use of the term padding gets mentioned frequently on here. Apart from where TOCs advertise trains to arrive later than the working time, all operational time allowances are there for a reason. So long as my train arrives when I'm told it will I have no problem with that.

And a bit away from London Bridge, my train today had a 10 minute dwell at Cologne, followed by a 7 minute dwell at Dusseldorf. Padding or scheduling? ( Rhetorical ! )

 

[Aictos]

Quite. In a number of places timetables are struggling to keep up with the ever increasing passenger demand. The extra time allowed in schedules for temporary speed restrictions usually masks the longer than planned station dwell times, until there is actually a 20mph temporary speed restriction somewhere, at which point timekeeping becomes a struggle.

The use of the term padding gets mentioned frequently on here. Apart from where TOCs advertise trains to arrive later than the working time, all operational time allowances are there for a reason. So long as my train arrives when I'm told it will I have no problem with that.

And a bit away from London Bridge, my train today had a 10 minute dwell at Cologne, followed by a 7 minute dwell at Dusseldorf. Padding or scheduling? ( Rhetorical ! )

More the latter for example, there is a number of services via Hertford North on a weekday that is timetabled to wait there now if the 5th Platform at Stevenage was already in place then a lot of this scheduling wouldn't be needed.

Same goes for London Bridge when it's all done, hopefully it might mean reduced journey times for some.

 

[Bishopstone]

There were reports of a WW2 bomb being discovered near the line at Bermondsey, today.

Presumably, in this age of delay attribution, someone completed a chitty ready to send to Angela Merkel.

 

[Bald Rick]

There were reports of a WW2 bomb being discovered near the line at Bermondsey, today.

Presumably, in this age of delay attribution, someone completed a chitty ready to send to Angela Merkel.

Control have been told to attribute any delay to DB
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It was a points failure. I'm sure Bald Rick will be along to tell us why soon.

Failure of a relay in the interlocking, which caused loss of detection on a set of points. Possibly connected to the track renewal work, possibly not. One that falls into the category of "we'll never know"

 

[Busaholic]

Not sure whether to include this on this thread, but it does have pertinence and might otherwise get unreported.

Sir Peter Hendy, Transport Commissioner for London, was one of the first members of the London Omnibus Traction Society in the 1960s, and is still a member. He gave an address to society members a month ago: I wasn't able to be present but this resume was published in the latest newsletter (obviously most of it was bus-related, so I am only including the bit relevant to rail users):-

''Asked about running London rail services, Sir Peter was clearly keen to see all suburban rail services under TfL control and predicted that it would happen within ten years. He was quite scathing about some current services 'which just about get people to work and back' and of the way passengers had been treated at London Bridge recently.'' It goes on to say that under TfL ownership stations would be updated, properly staffed at all times and fares would be reduced.

Hmm - and this not from a politician.

 

[Chrisgr31]

''Asked about running London rail services, Sir Peter was clearly keen to see all suburban rail services under TfL control and predicted that it would happen within ten years. He was quite scathing about some current services 'which just about get people to work and back' and of the way passengers had been treated at London Bridge recently.'' It goes on to say that under TfL ownership stations would be updated, properly staffed at all times and fares would be reduced.

Hmm - and this not from a politician.

Problem which is ignored is all the trains that are coming in from outside London. Why would passengers on the Uckfield Line want to be under control of the Mayor of London? Equally why would he reduce our fares when we dont pay council tax in his area. Now of course the solution would then be for us not to stop at places like Norwood Junction!

The reality is that now the timetable, drivers etc have bedded in the service at London Bridge is much better. Yes there are issues but then there are at Victoria and other places as well.

 

[neilm]

Problem which is ignored is all the trains that are coming in from outside London. Why would passengers on the Uckfield Line want to be under control of the Mayor of London? Equally why would he reduce our fares when we dont pay council tax in his area. Now of course the solution would then be for us not to stop at places like Norwood Junction!

The reality is that now the timetable, drivers etc have bedded in the service at London Bridge is much better. Yes there are issues but then there are at Victoria and other places as well.

I assume they want the same as on GE that southerns metro services are transferred and not the mainline. However this goes against all original plans to reduce the number of operators going into London terminals in the early 2000 era.

 

[Class377/5]

Not sure whether to include this on this thread, but it does have pertinence and might otherwise get unreported.

Sir Peter Hendy, Transport Commissioner for London, was one of the first members of the London Omnibus Traction Society in the 1960s, and is still a member. He gave an address to society members a month ago: I wasn't able to be present but this resume was published in the latest newsletter (obviously most of it was bus-related, so I am only including the bit relevant to rail users):-

''Asked about running London rail services, Sir Peter was clearly keen to see all suburban rail services under TfL control and predicted that it would happen within ten years. He was quite scathing about some current services 'which just about get people to work and back' and of the way passengers had been treated at London Bridge recently.'' It goes on to say that under TfL ownership stations would be updated, properly staffed at all times and fares would be reduced.

Hmm - and this not from a politician.

Considering how bad the Jubilee Line upgrade went and how often it went wrong on Mondays during the Northern Line upgrade, I find his words rather hollow and self serving. He is just trying to justify the TfL approsch to taking over London Metro services while whitewashing the facts. London Bridge is Network Rail's JLUP.

Let's not forget the fashion why London Overground is so different from the Silverlink it took over from was because it got money the TOC didn't have access to. You could say that if the money had been pumped into Sliverlink Metro like the Overground, what difference between a franchise and the LO model would they have been?

 

[Taunton]

Why would passengers on the Uckfield Line want to be under control of the Mayor of London?

You can say the same about why would they want to leave their country idyll each day and come to work in a place controlled by the Mayor of London, take shopping trips on a Saturday to a place controlled by the Mayor of London, go to the theatre, or even (as I'm sure they are all a well-heeled lot down the Uckfield line) go to the Opera in a place controlled by the Mayor of London? The answer is, of course, that all these are way, way better for them than anything in Little Snoring-in-the-Marsh.

 

[FOH]

The reality is that now the timetable, drivers etc have bedded in the service at London Bridge is much better. Yes there are issues but then there are at Victoria and other places as well.

You mean the current emergency timetable with withdrawn services? Let's not go patting them on the back until they're delivering on commitments please. Currently Southern are trying to outdo Connex on incompetence.

 

[swt_passenger]

Problem which is ignored is all the trains that are coming in from outside London. Why would passengers on the Uckfield Line want to be under control of the Mayor of London? Equally why would he reduce our fares when we dont pay council tax in his area.

The only logical fares reduction would be removal of the 'train/tube' fares within zones 1-6; I expect that will be happening shortly with the routes moving from AGA to Overground and TfL Rail (Crossrail eventually).

 

[Chrisgr31]

You can say the same about why would they want to leave their country idyll each day and come to work in a place controlled by the Mayor of London, take shopping trips on a Saturday to a place controlled by the Mayor of London, go to the theatre, or even (as I'm sure they are all a well-heeled lot down the Uckfield line) go to the Opera in a place controlled by the Mayor of London? The answer is, of course, that all these are way, way better for them than anything in Little Snoring-in-the-Marsh.

Why on earth would they want to go to the opera in London when they can get their chauffeur to drive them a few miles down the road to Glyndebourne where the butler has laid out their picnic for them?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Out of interest, does anyone know how people coped before high visibility jackets? Was there confusion then?

Railstaff wore caps - red bands for railmen , blue for senior railmen / Chargemen and gold rings for Supervisors / Gold braid with oak leaves for Assistant Station Managers / Station Managers.

Proper - not like now when you can buy a HV for £1.99 in the market. You had to earn those rankings..

 

[Deepgreen]

Dire again this morning - we were told variously that there was a failed train at East Croydon or Sutton, depending on which announcements were heard, and now the Southern web site now has this hastily-typed and somewhat garbled message:
"Mainline - Train services are being delayed in the Purley as a result of congestion while engineers attended to a track defect."

No mention of a failed train anywhere.

2B30 (the Misery Train!) was 27 late at LBG (so no Delay Repay again!).

 

[hwl]

More new Hi-Vis this morning!

The old pink ones have been replaced by a slightly darker shade of pink with "Team London Bridge etc" on the back for the on concourse customer assistance staff.

Also lots of point clips boxes being added at key locations on the approaches.

 

[Deepgreen]

More new Hi-Vis this morning!

The old pink ones have been replaced by a slightly darker shade of pink with "Team London Bridge etc" on the back for the on concourse customer assistance staff.

Also lots of point clips boxes being added at key locations on the approaches.

Given the very disrupted service this morning I was surprised not to see more staff, but several of the ones I did see were wearing their new hi-vis pink tabards on top of their previous hi-vis yellow ones! Missing the point of "one colour" somewhat.

 

[hwl]

Given the very disrupted service this morning I was surprised not to see more staff, but several of the ones I did see were wearing their new hi-vis pink tabards on top of their previous hi-vis yellow ones! Missing the point of "one colour" somewhat.

The new ones look a bit minimalist so no surprises some were wearing something providing more coverage underneath...

One colour ...
...apart from platform dispatch, drivers, gateline, cleaners, police, security, anyone construction related

 

[neilm]

Terrible this morning, train cancelled at East Croydon in the platform. Then told to go to multiple platforms.

Doesn't help that it seems that because I setup two automatic tweets a day for my trains that they have now blocked me on twitter.

Not sure what to do now, as I cannot find any information about my trains at all now :roll:

 

[FOH]

There was an information desk too, not seen one before

 

[Deepgreen]

There was an information desk too, not seen one before

Very few people have!

 

[tsr]

I can confirm that there was a suspected track defect on the Up Fast at Purley Oaks earlier which caused congestion whilst Network Rail examined the line and its ride quality. There was also a domestic power supply problem at Selhurst Depot and a train failure at Sanderstead. Further to these, there's been a trespass incident this lunchtime at Three Bridges which has resulted in congestion, especially as it was initially believed that the trespasser had been hit by a train.

There are unfortunately some short formations on the Uckfield line due to the issues at Sanderstead, and there will be some residual delays on Southern mainline routes for the early part of the afternoon as well. 5C65 is stationary and causing Platform 3 to be occupied at Three Bridges, which means that capacity there is a more limited than it should be, although other platforms are open as usual.

Service recovery is ongoing as per any public info broadcast to that effect.

EDIT: I forgot that there was an ill passenger (or maybe we should call it a "broken down person") on a train at East Croydon in the morning peak as well.

 

[sarahj]

I was working the Eastbourne London Bridge 442 this morning. In order was:

Followed stopping train from Keymer to Gatwick which stopped at everything, including Balcombe. Then came to stop just before the Quarry tunnel near the bridge over the M25. Call to control came back, track defect at Purley Oaks. Slow all the way. Moved over to the slow at Stoats Nest. Now very slow. Report also came in of a passenger taken ill at East Croydon. Went passed defect, all i could see was a conductor rail off a couple of pots, but line must have been ok as trains started to pass us on the fast. Then ultra slow, including an almost 5 min wait before South Croydon. Now 35 late. And just managed to speak to control as we pulled into East Croydon, and they told me we were terminating there as there was no space for us to go to london bridge.
Announcement made, and all off. 42 Late.
The hard thing to take was was not angry comments of the passengers, there were none, everyone just looked so resigned. Southern and Network rail are going to have to work very hard, and at the moment, I just cannot see a way out.

Another sad thing was, while being held at South Croydon, passengers on the platform were asking me to open the doors and let them on. Felt so sorry to say that I could not. (I dont open doors on the train, just close them, and we could be on the move any second)

 

[neilm]

I was working the Eastbourne London Bridge 442 this morning. In order was:

Followed stopping train from Keymer to Gatwick which stopped at everything, including Balcombe. Then came to stop just before the Quarry tunnel near the bridge over the M25. Call to control came back, track defect at Purley Oaks. Slow all the way. Moved over to the slow at Stoats Nest. Now very slow. Report also came in of a passenger taken ill at East Croydon. Went passed defect, all i could see was a conductor rail off a couple of pots, but line must have been ok as trains started to pass us on the fast. Then ultra slow, including an almost 5 min wait before South Croydon. Now 35 late. And just managed to speak to control as we pulled into East Croydon, and they told me we were terminating there as there was no space for us to go to london bridge.
Announcement made, and all off. 42 Late.
The hard thing to take was was not angry comments of the passengers, there were none, everyone just looked so resigned. Southern and Network rail are going to have to work very hard, and at the moment, I just cannot see a way out.

Another sad thing was, while being held at South Croydon, passengers on the platform were asking me to open the doors and let them on. Felt so sorry to say that I could not. (I dont open doors on the train, just close them, and we could be on the move any second)

Thanks I was on your train. it was frustrating in the Croydon area, nothing on twitter either and the sudden kick out at Corydon. Told to go to platform 5 and then back to platform 4....

It seems if this train runs 15 mins late it is cancelled at east Croydon now.

Also emailed customer services to see why they do not reply to me...

 

[tsr]

All lines are now open at Three Bridges. 5C65 has moved from Platform 3.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Now there is a line block on the Down Line at Balcombe... EDIT: All open again.

 

[sarahj]

Thanks I was on your train. it was frustrating in the Croydon area, nothing on twitter either and the sudden kick out at Corydon. Told to go to platform 5 and then back to platform 4....

It seems if this train runs 15 mins late it is cancelled at east Croydon now.

Also emailed customer services to see why they do not reply to me...

It was very frustrating for me as a guard as info was hard to get. At ECR I went out and had a fag and i could hear them saying London Bridge, one platform, then another. I hope you apply for Delay Repay, and if your a season ticket holder 'enhanced compensation '. You might not want what you get with this, but apply. I would.