-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
London Bridge - new timetable during reconstruction works commencing 5th January 2015
- Thread starter TimG
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Bishopstone
Established Member
I stopped my daily log in mid-March, when the connection success rate was less than 20% year to date. Work circumstances then kept me away from the 18.23 for a couple of weeks.
Over April and May, anecdotally, the success rate rose to 40%-50% on a weekly rolling average.
Last week, commencing 1 June, the connection was made every day*. So a clear trajectory of improvement, brought about by the much-revised London Bridge timetabling and signalling starting to work well; better flighting on the BML between East Croydon and Three Bridges, plus the onset of spring and easier weather conditions. (The 442s are not great on greasy rails).
* Albeit the Seaford branch connection was held for an abnormally long time on Friday, departing at 19.37 versus the timetabled 19.31. It does not usually wait that long.
Since October 2014 I have collected Delay Repay vouchers worth £298, with another £20 claimed but not yet paid. This is from a First Class season, although I generally only commute four days a week. I'm still surprised Colchester Man managed to rack-up claims of over £1000 in 12 months....
One might suppose that Colchester Man has been extremely unfortunate and catches different trains every night, and those trains happen to have suffered Delay Repay levels of delay at a level much higher than the average statistical probability. Statistically, someone will always be a lot worse than average.
Deepgreen
Established Member
Back to familiar territory this morning - signal failure at London Bridge.
Fairly late on, about 0915, and fixed in an hour. Most commuters would have missed it. A fuse blew in a track circuit when a certain type of train went over it.
Last edited:
Bishopstone
Established Member
The 442 ECS from the Up Eastbourne?
I think a few fuses had already blown at the news it was 5 vice 10.
Nope.
I recall seeing a 455 leaving P10 at 0915, I'd just arrived on the late 0910
Not a 442 then? Is it the class 66 locos in the area?
Deepgreen
Established Member
As ever, thanks for the information. 2B30 pretty much on time this morning (in fact halfway between the WTT and GBTT times!).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Extraordinary scenes at London Bridge this morning, when 2B30 arrived one minute early! A trumpet fanfare was blown and a blizzard of ticker tape blew onto the concourse. Well, the first part is true, at least.
telstarbox
Established Member
Train sitting down on the SE fast lines this morning.
david737
Member
The train was on the up Charing Cross near Spa Road having been brought to a stand after damage to the shoe gear of the leading unit (luckily it was an empty train) and had been there since about 0515, it was removed after fitters attention to Charing Cross about 0745 and the up CHX line reopened shortly afterwards.
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
Overall - there have been 90 or so TT changes for London Bridge Southern terminating and starting services in 3 stages since January - with positive results in terms of timekeeping (aided of course by NR efforts on infrastructure and train signalling)
Sussex Coast services have increased PPM by 6% since the last changes - considering they were as low as 51% in January.....(changes to the Brighton Main line TT have obviously assisted this improvement) - some trains now have more robust paths south of Gatwick and into London Bridge. I suspect some more attention into Victoria might / will bring in better results for all.Personal opinion of course.
Sussex Coast services have increased PPM by 6% since the last changes - considering they were as low as 51% in January.....(changes to the Brighton Main line TT have obviously assisted this improvement) - some trains now have more robust paths south of Gatwick and into London Bridge. I suspect some more attention into Victoria might / will bring in better results for all.Personal opinion of course.
Bishopstone
Established Member
I suspect you are right. The 2 minute earlier start for the Up Seaford (06.54) has been quite transformational in terms of timekeeping.
However, I have noticed the 18.46 Victoria-E&W Coastway is a pretty dire performer, with a connection record at Lewes almost as bad as my nemesis the 18.23 ex-LBG. The 18.46 departed right time tonight, but for no particular reason managed to be 9 down by Lewes, with the branch connection not held. This is quite typical.
Some of Southern's Conductors need to get better at apologising for delays they may consider trivial, but I don't. I excuse the ones who are proactive moving around the train checking tickets etc, but not those who hole themselves up in a middle cab: they should have plenty of time to do a brief PA.
A lady on the 18.27 Victoria to Ore train tonight happened to say that they were sat at Victoria for 15 minutes after the train should have left with no announcement as to why. There wasn't any announcement between their and Haywards Heath either, by which point the train was 20 minutes late. I knew why as the screen at Clapham Junction said so.
I can only assume the Lewes train got held by the delayed trains from Victoria.
I'm interested and have a question for you and others like you.
What announcement would you like ? I often find that I am generally blagging it about delays. I make an announcement based on what I can see. and it isn't always the actual cause of the delay. We are finding more and more that passengers have move information that train crew do. I have also been instructed to announce, after coming to a stand, "Sorry for the delay, I don't know why..." I do not consider that approach professional.
What kind of announcement do you want ?
Bishopstone
Established Member
'I'm sorry for the slow journey tonight. We encountered some congestion and are now nine minutes late. For customers changing here for the Seaford branch, regrettably the 19.59 has not been held, but your next train is at 20.28 from platform 3. Once again, I'm sorry for the delay tonight.'
Personally, for delays under 15 minutes, I'm not bothered about the particular Dog-Ate-Homework excuse Control have selected: it's more the gesture of recognition that the service has been sub-standard.
Now let me guess: I know before the Conductor does that the 19.59 hasn't been held, because Apple made me an Application whereas train staff still rely on telegrams from signal cabins or, maybe, Blackberry Mark Ones? Of course, I accept Conductors have other duties that stop them hunching over phones 24/7, as passengers can.
However, when my aged mum and dad venture to London without a phone (unbelievable!), and being rather nervy travellers, the reassurance of an advisory announcement is much appreciated.
Thanks for responding: the majority of Conductors are diligent, and the best go well beyond expectations in their customer service.
Ok. So what if information isn't know by the conductor ? Do you want incorrect information given out ? Not deliberately but passengers really do know much more accurate and reliable information sometimes.
Following on. What are your reasonable expectations that an announcement should provide ? I have made it clear on another thread that reasonable information doesn't include knowing the ins and outs of the timetables and where you can change for x service.
Try to remember that the announcer has to be more generic because they are providing information en mass rather than bespoke to each passenger.
*edit*
Just thought of something else that affects my announcements but you mentioned. We are specifically told not to use technical jargon and to avoid words like 'suicide' 'fire' etc because they can cause alarm or upset. We are often forced to use "operating incident" "congestion" "technical problem" etc.
[facetious]
Less than 15 minutes... Wow I must be amazing in your eyes because a minute at a stand can feel like a lifetime on a train.
[/facetious]
Following on. What are your reasonable expectations that an announcement should provide ? I have made it clear on another thread that reasonable information doesn't include knowing the ins and outs of the timetables and where you can change for x service.
Try to remember that the announcer has to be more generic because they are providing information en mass rather than bespoke to each passenger.
*edit*
Just thought of something else that affects my announcements but you mentioned. We are specifically told not to use technical jargon and to avoid words like 'suicide' 'fire' etc because they can cause alarm or upset. We are often forced to use "operating incident" "congestion" "technical problem" etc.
[facetious]
Less than 15 minutes... Wow I must be amazing in your eyes because a minute at a stand can feel like a lifetime on a train.
[/facetious]
Last edited:
Bishopstone
Established Member
I gave an example of the sort of announcement I'd like to see, in my post.
As an aside, can't the signaller and/or Control broadcast directly to trains, now? I'm sure I've had the signaller come over the PA on a 313, on the branch, to announce the cancellation of the London connection. Perhaps more use could be made of this facility?
The bottom line is this: I was 29 minutes late home tonight. Not the end of the world, and to be expected sometimes on a long commute. Nobody on the train, at Lewes station or via Twitter gave an apology or broadcast any information regarding alternatives for missed connections. This strikes me as poor.
I'm going to withdraw from this debate now, not least because I've started to drag this way off topic.
On the TL routes, it seems that GTR is even worse at keeping its staff informed (drivers and platform) than FCC was.
As a smartphone carrying customer, I find the twitter team are pretty good - more informed, accurate information. (It doesn't help that the Blackfriars platform evening/night staff are typically very reluctant to make any manual announcement at all)
As a smartphone carrying customer, I find the twitter team are pretty good - more informed, accurate information. (It doesn't help that the Blackfriars platform evening/night staff are typically very reluctant to make any manual announcement at all)
The announcement made on the 0903 from St Albans this morning was perfect, for a 2 minute delay. Made by the driver whilst accelerating away, cancelling the DSD mid announcement.
He apologised for the slight delay, explained what it was (late start from Bedford) and also why we couldn't stop at W Hampstead (in cab monitors not working). All done with an understanding, but not overly apologetic voice.
Granted he knew the reasons, but even had he not, just saying 'we are a couple of minutes down' would be fine.
To be honest I always think the driver is best placed to make announcements, as he or she is more likely to know the reason if there is a primary delay, and all other issues can be covered with 'following a late running train'.
Anyway, back on topic. Southern PPM into London Bridge (trees aside) is consistently in the mid 90s now, which is about the best it has ever been, and knocks spots off almost every other London terminal.
I actually consider I do not know why to be professional as it's honest. I've heard a guard say that and I really appreciated the honesty.
Saying nothing at all is unprofessional in my opinion.
carriageline
Established Member
- Joined
- 11 Jan 2012
- Messages
- 1,897
Technically speaking, we can make a call to the PA equipment GSMR equipped trains, which will then come out over the PA. but it's not there for that reason, and more 'emergencies'
I won't do it though because;
1) it might give the driver or guard a fright!
2) I normally don't have time, or I'm dealing with other stuff. It may seem like a lazy excuse, but I'm sure you rather I kept your trains moving safely than making an announcement!
3) it's simply not my job.
Deepgreen
Established Member
2B30 stood for ages outside East Croydon and London Bridge approaches this morning with trains passing on both sides. 15L.
Train failed, blocking P13 for half an hour.
Hilarious situation with 2P21 this morning (East Croydon to Victoria via Norbury) which I assume was delayed due to issues at London Bridge.
Without announcement it seemed to stop at every stop (as scheduled).... on the fast platforms rather than the slow platforms between Selhurst and Balham.
At Norbury at least, Platform 4 doesn't even have a PID and is gated off...
I wonder how many fast trains were held up behind it.... My train certainly overtook a lot of fast trains, despite me being on a stopping train.
Without announcement it seemed to stop at every stop (as scheduled).... on the fast platforms rather than the slow platforms between Selhurst and Balham.
At Norbury at least, Platform 4 doesn't even have a PID and is gated off...
I wonder how many fast trains were held up behind it.... My train certainly overtook a lot of fast trains, despite me being on a stopping train.
Deepgreen
Established Member
That sounds farcical and potentially dangerous if someone had alighted at a closed platform. Were the doors released at each station? The up fast platform at Selhurst is extremely low at the northern end and would be a significant jump down at least...
I'm not sure if a staff member opened the gates at Norbury. I was waiting for that specific train at Platform 2, and because there was no announcement (the train just disappeared from the PID), I decided to wait for the next train rather than attempt to go to Platform 4.
But the doors were released at Norbury (well, the hazard lights on the 377/6 were all on), I can only assume the same happened at the other stations as well.
Deepgreen
Established Member
Apologies - I thought you had been travelling on the train and had witnessed it stopping at all stations. Changing platforms at Norbury is not a quick job with the long ramps!
- Status