• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

London Buses Discussion

RacsoMoquette

Member
Joined
24 Nov 2023
Messages
249
Location
South Cambridgeshire
I also worry that these issues regarding the Metrodecker and the late delivery schedules of new Switch Metrocities really is not setting a good image for any future orders from London operators for said buses. As much as I like Switches products, I still think that with this, operators will be even more apposed to any do do with Switch let alone by any more vehicles from them.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

TWBG

Member
Joined
8 Aug 2023
Messages
38
Location
London
I also worry that these issues regarding the Metrodecker and the late delivery schedules of new Switch Metrocities really is not setting a good image for any future orders from London operators for said buses. As much as I like Switches products, I still think that with this, operators will be even more apposed to any do do with Switch let alone by any more vehicles from them.
some operators may still get Switch products if they win or retain routes that only take short buses such as route 383 and/or operators that have not ordered a shorter bus such as Abellio’s 9.4 or 10.1m vehicle routes
 

MasterSpenny

Member
Joined
28 Jul 2023
Messages
677
Location
the middle of pointless protests
I also worry that these issues regarding the Metrodecker and the late delivery schedules of new Switch Metrocities really is not setting a good image for any future orders from London operators for said buses. As much as I like Switches products, I still think that with this, operators will be even more apposed to any do do with Switch let alone by any more vehicles from them.
That really makes the Switch order at Stagecoach as a whole look like it will take something like 3 years to be completed.

I wonder if any operator will switch to something like the Yutong E9 or the Enviro 100 EV at some point, since manufacturers such as Yutong and Alexander Dennis can deliver way faster?
 
Last edited:

BJames

Established Member
Joined
27 Jan 2018
Messages
1,420
Looks like the Switch MetroCities for route 377 have started surfacing. These have not got high spec unfortunately.

Would love to see one appear on the 192 at some point! Or even send it on the 318 :lol:
(Not my video)
Fab - my local route - look forward to trying this in service.

Further update is that following the commencement of route SL1, 34 drivers were today issued with a notice that they will not stand at Walthamstow Bus Station from 09/12/2023. Instead, buses will stand at Courtenay Mews, running light between Walthamstow Bus Station and Courtenay Mews. No more than 2 buses from 34s can use this at any one time (Courtenay Mews has space for 4 buses).

Training for SL1 is in full swing at Palmers Green and these buses will use the space freed up by moving the 34s in Walthamstow Bus Station to stand there.
 

ChilternTurbo

Member
Joined
15 Jun 2016
Messages
315
I made a round trip from Harrow to North Finchley and back on the SL10 yesterday. There were TfL staff at principal stops leafletting and explaining to passengers the stopping pattern of the new service. I did notice quite a few instances of passenger trying to hail the SL10 at 183 stops it doesn't serve. I'm sure this is down to a new route taking a while to bed in.

For a Saturday afternoon both my buses carried very few passengers. I was quite impressed how quickly it managed to complete the route, although the Finchley Central to North Finchley leg was congested.

The BCE vehicles were a mixture of all over red buses, white and red unbranded Superloop, and fully branded and liveried Superloop vehicles.
 

Silent

Member
Joined
31 Mar 2016
Messages
271
Some seats seem to have been replaced with plastic rather than moquette. Is this going to happen to all buses in London?
This is quite ironic given the fact that New buses in London seem to have a higher spec interior.

The GB Kite Electroliners for route E7 are under manufacturing. They also feature the new front bumper
I dislike how the top looks so heavy. E200 byd ev’s manage to not look overly top heavy. Is there a way to incorporate a pedestrian friendly design without making the face look less aesthetically pleasing?
 
Last edited:

Edvid

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2008
Messages
1,869
It's been about 10 years since battery electric buses were reintroduced to London, starting with a pair of 63-reg K9Es that were trialled on the Red Arrow routes for several years before their withdrawal; one of them is now on loan to the London Bus Museum in Weybridge. The oldest vehicles in regular use are the route 312 Metrocities (two of which are 14-reg), converted-to-electric LT11 aside.

Rollout in the first five years was very modest, focused as TfL was on hybrids (New Routemasters or otherwise) at the time; it took until 2018 to reach 100. Now there are around 1200 in the overall fleet and a Mayoral directive to change the rest of it over the next 7-11 years.
 

Goldfish62

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
11,741
It's been about 10 years since battery electric buses were reintroduced to London, starting with a pair of 63-reg K9Es that were trialled on the Red Arrow routes for several years before their withdrawal; one of them is now on loan to the London Bus Museum in Weybridge. The oldest vehicles in regular use are the route 312 Metrocities (two of which are 14-reg), converted-to-electric LT11 aside.

Rollout in the first five years was very modest, focused as TfL was on hybrids (New Routemasters or otherwise) at the time; it took until 2018 to reach 100. Now there are around 1200 in the overall fleet and a Mayoral directive to change the rest of it over the next 7-11 years.
Yes, and technology has come on leaps and bounds since then. Very interesting times.
 

Edvid

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2008
Messages
1,869
On that theme, RATP have transferred some D8UR E200EVs to the Hounslow Heath garage following infrastructure works in recent days, enabling the 235 to finally turn (primarily) electric. This means it is now feasible to travel on one such route and change to another completely outwith Greater London; in this case, Sunbury Village - Staines on the 235/290 (with a change at Sunbury Cross).
 

RacsoMoquette

Member
Joined
24 Nov 2023
Messages
249
Location
South Cambridgeshire
On the Second of December a Stagecoach London 8.7 Metre Switch Metrocity EV entered service on route 339. Does this mean that they may enter service on route W5 in the near future? The vehicle in question was YJ23 EHZ (45008).
 

MasterSpenny

Member
Joined
28 Jul 2023
Messages
677
Location
the middle of pointless protests
On the Second of December a Stagecoach London 8.7 Metre Switch Metrocity EV entered service on route 339. Does this mean that they may enter service on route W5 in the near future? The vehicle in question was YJ23 EHZ (45008).
45008 was certainly on the 339, but I cannot link a photo so I’m just relying on bustimes.org. I don’t know how much progression has been made for the W5 electrification though.

45008 YJ23 EHZ​


London red
TypeOptare MetroCity EV
FeaturesUSB power
Saturday 2 December 2023
RouteTripTo
33917:28LeytonstoneMap
33922:03ShadwellMap
33922:59LeytonstoneMap
 

Goldfish62

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
11,741
On that theme, RATP have transferred some D8UR E200EVs to the Hounslow Heath garage following infrastructure works in recent days, enabling the 235 to finally turn (primarily) electric.
At last! Over a year since it should have gone electric.
 

Edvid

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2008
Messages
1,869
Latest tender results (5 December) shown on the LOTS news page reveal that Arriva have won the initial 14-month SL5 contract, so covered by existing diesels to start with.

Also of note is that U4 (retained by Metroline) is the first Uxbridge-based route to be announced as turning electric.

Tuesday 5 December


LBSL intends to enter into new contracts for the following routes with the operators listed below:


RouteCurrent OperatorNew Operator
PVR
Vehicles
627Arriva London SouthArriva London South
3​
Existing hybrid double deck
661Stagecoach SelkentStagecoach Selkent
1​
Existing diesel double deck
SL5n/a – new routeArriva London South
10​
Existing diesel single deck
U4Metroline WestMetroline West
12​
New electric double deck


New electric vehicles may enter service after the contract start date, dependent on infrastructure and/ or vehicle delivery timescales.



The diesel and hybrid vehicles detailed above will meet Euro VI emissions standards.


The start and end dates for the above contracts are detailed in the following table:


Route
Contract Start Date
Contract End Date
627
2nd November 2024​
1st November 2030​
661
5th October 2024​
1st October 2027​
SL5
3rd February 2024​
11th April 2025​
U4
26th October 2024​
24th October 2031​

Almost forgot - the SL5 report / response to issues raised are now on the TfL HYS portal. Single deckers must be used because of low-hanging trees on South Eden Park Road, it seems.
 

MotCO

Established Member
Joined
25 Aug 2014
Messages
5,144
Latest tender results (5 December) shown on the LOTS news page reveal that Arriva have won the initial 14-month SL5 contract, so covered by existing diesels to start with.

Also of note is that U4 (retained by Metroline) is the first Uxbridge-based route to be announced as turning electric.



Almost forgot - the SL5 report / response to issues raised are now on the TfL HYS portal. Single deckers must be used because of low-hanging trees on South Eden Park Road, it seems.
I had wondered if it was due to the low bridge at Shortlands, so presumably it doesn't go that way.
 

Edvid

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2008
Messages
1,869
That's right; from Bromley South to Croydon the route adopts a broadly-SW/W approach, Hayes Lane aside.


The initial Superloop contracts have gone to Arriva (1/2/5), Go-Ahead (4/6/7), RATP (9/10), Stagecoach (3) and Metroline (8), leaving Abellio/Transport UK as pretty much the odd one out. (Though some of those already existed with different numbers long before the Superloop concept was publicised.)
 
Last edited:
Joined
20 May 2018
Messages
230
Consultation on route changes for 91, 123, 232, and N91 around Turnpike Lane: https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/haringey-heartlands.

The Tottenham Lane/Ferme Park Road tiny roundabout at which the 91 currently turns around in Crouch End is proposed to be removed, as it's far too small for buses to turn around at and there have been multiple instances of buses smashing into buildings! Therefore the 91 would have to find a new terminating location; the proposed solution is to extend it to Wood Green via new developments between Wood Green High Road and the East Coast Mainline. The N91, which already continues past Crouch End and through Wood Green, would then re-route away from the High Road along the new 91 route.

Alongside this, the 232 and 123 are to be altered to reduce congestion on the High Road between Wood Green and Turnpike Lane Stations. The 232 would be diverted at Wood Green Station into the new developments to terminate there. The 123 would be curtailed to Turnpike Lane Station, using the space freed up there from the 232's move. And, in turn, the 91 can use the space freed up at Wood Green Station by the 123 changes.
 

MasterSpenny

Member
Joined
28 Jul 2023
Messages
677
Location
the middle of pointless protests
Source: this appears to come from an internal document.

Update regarding the Abellio to Transport UK rebrand. I wonder if this means new bus arrivals will be getting a new interior?
Over the past few months, we've had so many questions about the rebrand to Transport UK - when it will happen, what it will look like and many more. We're finally able to set out some detail around what will happen, and when! It's been great to see the excitement from you all on this and so that you understand the scale of it, we'd challenge you to stand somewhere in any depot and turn on the spot, see how many times you see the word "Abellio" - it's everywhere!


The rebrand will take place over 3 main phases:

Phase 1 - buses, emails, website and stationery
  • This big change will start from Saturday 3 February 2024 and will include the logo on all vehicles, as well as legal lettering on the side of the buses and O licences
  • Email addresses will change then too (more info on that in January for those with Abellio.co.uk email addresses)
  • The website will also move domains, and so the recruitment adverts on the buses will also change
  • New electronic stationery (letterheads, templates and email signatures) will also change)

Phase 2 - depots
• Later in 2024 or into 2025 the depot signage will also start to change

Phase 3 - uniform
• Our next uniform rollout will be in early 2025 and work has already started to make that happen. We've taken on board feedback received by so many of you and we're shortly going to be forming our uniform working party, just like we did when we changed to the current design. If you're interested in being part of this then put your name forward to your Operations Manager please!


BEFORE that rollout in 2025, it's likely that hi vis vests will start to change to the Transport UK logo, as and when stocks are replenished


The logo itself will be Transport UK, as pictured below and as seen on our new E7 buses (shared recently), albeit the logo on the buses will be in white as will feature on black / red backgrounds
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Goldfish62

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
11,741
Abellio used to fit the softest seat squabs so a shame if that changes. The red moquette is quite attractive.
The management team at Abellio London are very keen on their new buses having a high spec interior so that will continue.

The moquette is not a corporate Abellio design, but was designed locally I believe with considerable input from a former TfL employee, so I also can't see that changing if it doesn't need to.
 

RacsoMoquette

Member
Joined
24 Nov 2023
Messages
249
Location
South Cambridgeshire
I can now confirm that two of Stagecoach London's 8.7 metre Switch Metrocity EV buses operated on route 339. YJ23 EHS (45001) and YJ23 EHZ (45008)
Images portraying the vehicles on said route are on Flickr. Apparently they are on loan to Lea Interchange due to clearance issues on the W5? Is this true or just a rumour?
 
Last edited:

MotCO

Established Member
Joined
25 Aug 2014
Messages
5,144
It seems as though the introduction of the Ie buses on route 358 has been further delayed until the Spring:



Transport for London (TfL) has revealed when its 20 new tram buses will be seen on the capital’s streets. The innovative electric ieTram vehicles - which can be charged in as little as 10 minutes - are emission free and will run on the 358 route between Orpington and Crystal Palace.

They are manufactured by engineers at the Spanish firm Irizar and shaped like a tram carriage, complete with a higher than usual roofline and larger windows. But, they are designed to still run on the road.

New features include covered wheels to better protect pedestrians and cyclists - who risk being dragged underneath normal bus wheels.

In a report to the TfL board from June, bosses were told that the new vehicles would be launched in ‘late 2023’. It read: “The 358 route will also benefit from strikingly designed new buses, with enhanced customer features and the latest bus safety features, whilst retaining the iconic red livery.

“The 20 new, single-deck ieTram buses which are built by Irizar e-mobility will be launched on the route 358 between Orpington, Bromley and Crystal Palace in late 2023.” But now, TfL has told MyLondon that the trial for the new buses on route 358 will be going live in the Spring.

The Mayor of London and Chair of TfL, Sadiq Khan, said on X, then known as Twitter, in November 2022, that the newest additions to the city’s bus fleet are set to be ‘game changing’. He added: “As a part of our commitment to making London greener for everyone, TfL are introducing 20 new emission-free electric buses in 2023—and they only take 10 minutes to charge.”

“I look forward to seeing these new buses in action.”
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,671
I had wondered if it was due to the low bridge at Shortlands, so presumably it doesn't go that way.
It may not be due to Shortlands Station bridge, but it does provide the opportunity to divert that way at some future stage e.g. if it was decided that Bromley South station no longer needed to be served, for instance. We shall see!
 

Statto

Established Member
Joined
8 Feb 2011
Messages
3,535
Location
At home or at the pub
I see Roger French tried out the new SL1 & sent in a report in his blog, his journey didn't go well & was so late it got terminated short, as did subsequent buses on the SL1.


 

Snow1964

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2019
Messages
8,156
Location
West Wiltshire
Apparently more routes have been handed back at 3 year contract break points and have been added to the Tender programme, presumably because they are running at a loss

I have been sent a copy of the TfL notice dated 12 Dec, and I will edit this post when it is added to TfL website (which is still showing November update) on this link:



Additional tranches ITT (invitation to tender) not yet issued
Tranche 884A : routes 65/N65, 71, 281/N281, 371, 406/418, 681, K5
Tranche 893A : 49, 117, 398, 697, H9/H10
Tranche 893B : 290
Tranche 894A : 148/N148
Tranche 895A : 160/660, 180

where / is shown, routes issued together, not separate

Other additional tranches, now have ITT issued
Tranche 880A : 639/670
Tranche 890A : 618
Tranche 898A : 34/N34, SL1 (new super loop route)
Tranche 898B : 192
Tranche 900A : 45
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,671
I see Roger French tried out the new SL1 & sent in a report in his blog, his journey didn't go well & was so late it got terminated short, as did subsequent buses on the SL1.

The whole point of Superloop is, supposedly. that by catching one such route to its terminus one can then transfer to another such route and so on ad nauseam, or, rather, when you reach the barrier of the Thames. Denying service to one of the termini, which was effectively what Roger was reporting, negates the principle, never mind that not all routes are yet operational. Somebody with some sort of management sense and expertise at TfL, if they any longer exist, should be over this like a rash. It's not sufficient to try to shift responsibility to the bus company that wins the contract: their primary focus is not the individual passenger, or even passengers en masse.
 

Edsmith

Member
Joined
21 Dec 2021
Messages
622
Location
Staplehurst
I had wondered if it was due to the low bridge at Shortlands, so presumably it doesn't go that way.
It won't go the obvious route via Beckenham and Shortlands for fear of taking passengers away from Tramlink.

I see Roger French tried out the new SL1 & sent in a report in his blog, his journey didn't go well & was so late it got terminated short, as did subsequent buses on the SL1.

Interesting article from Mr French, it was perhaps exceptional circumstances but not good at all.
 

JD2168

Established Member
Joined
11 Jul 2022
Messages
1,370
Location
Sheffield
After reading the Roger French blog it make me wonder if enabling the SL1 to run via diversionary routes like part of the 34 route would solve some of the issues around the North Circular.
 

Top