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London Midland 172 staff briefs

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mumrar

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With a new fleet being delivered LM have decided to begin the campaign of brainwashing the staff and public about them (only joking).

Brief no: one (yes it really does look like "brief no-one!")

welcome
We're committed to delivering an improved journey experience for our passengers. As part of this commitment we are introducing a brand new fleet of trains that will greatly improve travel on our routes serving Birmingham Snow Hill and Moor Street stations.

A team of people from London Midland and Bombardier has been working behind the scenes since mid 2008 project managing the design, construction and testing of the fleet.

This is the first in a series of updates to give you an introduction to our new fleet of trains. (Email section with address removed)

the 'class 172'
The Class 172 train is the latest evolution in the Turbostar family of trains. We already run a Turbostar train - the Class 170 and we currently have 23 trains in our fleet. The Class 172 will replace most of our Class 150 fleet which has been in operation for over 25 years. As you might expect, it has a number of advantages over the Class 150. We've highlighted the main improvements below.

what's improved?
The Class 172 has some new features designed to improve passenger environment, information, security and access.

Saloon environment
The saloon environment of the Class 172 is a vast improvement on the exisiting Class 150s and will significantly improve passenger perception. The benefits include 2+2 seating, air conditioning, more leg room, spacious and bright interior with London Midland branding and open vestibules

Passenger Information System
On train passenger information is really important to our passengers. Our new system provides automatic audio and visual messages for each journey, with the ability to manually select messages as required.

Closed Circuit Television
Each vehicle of the train has four internal colour CCTV cameras that automatically record and store to a computer on board the train. To support investigations into criminal or anti-social incidents footage can be downloaded via cables or via a secure wireless connection.

A forward facing camera is fitted in the exterior of each driving cab front, next to the drivers side lamp cluster. Recordings from these cameras can provide valuable evidence to support incident investigations.

Inter-unit Access
All of our Class 172's have unit end corridor connections which are much more convenient for both our customers and ourselves. This helps customers find seats throughout the train more easily, improve revenue protection and provides a more open environment. The trains are also fitted with Selective Door Operation (SDO) which enables them to call at some short platforms.

Each Class 172 carriage is 23 metres long compared to 20 metres for the Class 150 enabling a similar level of seating to a Class 150 but with 2+2 rather than 2+3 seating. Seating capacities are 139 for a 2 car and 219 for a 3 car.

Each unit is provided with a disabled access toilet with automatic soap and water dispensers.

delivery
Two Class 172 Units have already been delivered to Tyseley depot and are currently being utilised for staff training and familiarisation purposes.

The full London Midland fleet of 12 Class 172/2 two car units and 15 Class 172/3 three car units are planned to be delivered over the coming months.

These new Units will replace most of our Class 150 units later this year and will operate predominantly on the Snow Hill routes between Leamington and Stratford to Stourbridge, Worcester and Malvern/Hereford.

the 172 project team
The introduction of a new train is a culmination of effort from a number of people in different teams.

A small Project Team consists of a core of three dedicated staff that have the skills and experience to manage and undertake the requirements for introducing the Class 172. They will co-ordinate all activities and interface with resources with London Mindland (LM) and external agencies/stakeholders in the execution of the project.

(Team personal details removed)

training and development
One of the most important things to accomplish whenever a new train is introduced is to make sure that we all have the relevant knowledge and competence to safely operate and maintain the new assets.

The project, fleet and operations teams have been working together to develop training courses for fleet staff, drivers and conductors. Training for driver instructors and fleet staff has already begun.

Stations team briefings will include a DVD to support understanding of the differences in a 172, including the use of the new disabled access ramp located on board every Class 172 unit and at certain stations.

updating our stations
Train dispatch arrangements are being reviewed and updated where necessary to accomodate the new fleet of trains.

Car Stop boards locations have been reviewed where Class 172's will call to make sure that the exisiting boards are fit for purpose or if replacement boards are required.

You may have seen new Stop Boards appearing at your station although this won't be necessary at all locations.

New disabled ramps specific to the Class 172 have also been ordered and fitted.

depot investment
The Class 172s will be maintained and stabled at Tyseley, Worcester and Leamington. Infrastructure work is being undertaken at Tyseley in preparation for the new trains, including a shed extension and installation of additional CET equipment.

Additional material and special tools have been procured for Class 172s.
Just thought I'd pass it on. A few things stand out, apart from misuse of apostrophes and capital letters randomly. Mostly it is the claim of similar level of seating, whilst not admitting that at times of passenger growth, they could do with more, not equal or less.

150 2 car - 122-149 dependant on TOC modifications
172 2 car - 139
150 3 car - 240 (scuds) 223-229 all others
172 3 car - 219
(Source: www.therailwaycentre.com)
 
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IanPooleTrains

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And they are going to improve passenger ride comforts? When people look like they are going to be standing?

They made trains with less seats than the trains they are replacing! Who dropped the ball on that one?
 

MCR247

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But do people often sit in the 3rd seat? From what I saw on green dot day people were standing, but no-one was sitting in the middle seats, especially in airline seats. So the fact that there is 2+2 seating means there is more standing room :)
 

mumrar

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But do people often sit in the 3rd seat? From what I saw on green dot day people were standing, but no-one was sitting in the middle seats, especially in airline seats. So the fact that there is 2+2 seating means there is more standing room :)
Well, it is the British way to not sit next to somebody that you don't know, even when the train is packed. That and baggage on the seat, really annoys me and I will charge people unless they remove items at busy times.
 

SS4

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Ironically one of their 350s had a broken PIS, it thought we were going to New St instead of to Rugby
 

j0hn0

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Well, it is the British way to not sit next to somebody that you don't know, even when the train is packed. That and baggage on the seat, really annoys me and I will charge people unless they remove items at busy times.

tis the problem with 3 + 2 - the seats are just too small. If you do manage to get 3 people on the seats, you cannot stand in the aisles because peoples bodies are hanging over the end. 3 + 2 is the stupidest config of a train ever imagined

Nice to see 2 + 2 for 172s.

I also have this leaflet, not because I work for LM, but my girlfriends Dad does and he brought it round to me after his first training day.

What we both found interesting is that for the McNultys DOO suggestion, these trains are completely unsuitable. He also dislikes sharing his cab with a door after years of obstruction free miles on the 150's
 

mumrar

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What we both found interesting is that for the McNultys DOO suggestion, these trains are completely unsuitable. He also dislikes sharing his cab with a door after years of obstruction free miles on the 150's
Not totally obstruction free miles with 153s and 150/2s diagrammed to work on the dark side. It is more annoying though, having worked both gangwayed and non-gangwayed cab units. It was probably why I disliked 156s and 158s so much!
 

Class172

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I do hope that LM use their potential follow up order of 172s as this would greatly increase capacity
 

tbtc

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I do hope that LM use their potential follow up order of 172s as this would greatly increase capacity

Does anyone know any more about this? Was it just a rumour, or a serious plan?

Ideally I'd like them to order enough units to displace all the 150s, maybe even make inroads into the 170s (which could be cascaded elsewhere)?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And they are going to improve passenger ride comforts? When people look like they are going to be standing?

They made trains with less seats than the trains they are replacing! Who dropped the ball on that one?

They are introducing one 172 for each 150 on the Snow Hill lines, as I understand it, but then decided that they wanted to hold on to nine coaches of 150 as well as the 172s, hence an overall increase (if they get their way).

Plus, as others have said, I'd not always count the "third" seat in any maths, since they are often empty even on busy trains - tbh I'd probably prefer to stand comfortably rather than be jammed in between two people (different on a plane where there's space for three people to sit in a row, but a bit cramped in a 150!)
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The LM website says (I think) first few by September with the whole fleet by the end of November

So, all the 172s are running by the end of the year, which means it may be next year before the 150s get cascaded elsewhere? If they've agreed on the split of LM 150s, of course.
 

sprinterguy

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Does anyone know any more about this? Was it just a rumour, or a serious plan?

Ideally I'd like them to order enough units to displace all the 150s, maybe even make inroads into the 170s (which could be cascaded elsewhere)?
Yes, there is a serious consideration for London Midland to order a follow on option of 26 class 172 vehicles beyond the current order, although I'm afraid I can't find the DfT document that mentions this specifically.

They are introducing one 172 for each 150 on the Snow Hill lines, as I understand it, but then decided that they wanted to hold on to nine coaches of 150 as well as the 172s, hence an overall increase (if they get their way).

Plus, as others have said, I'd not always count the "third" seat in any maths, since they are often empty even on busy trains - tbh I'd probably prefer to stand comfortably rather than be jammed in between two people (different on a plane where there's space for three people to sit in a row, but a bit cramped in a 150!))
Indeed it all boils down to how well used the middle seat in the sets of three is. I consider that they are well used on the LM 323s, perhaps not so much on the 150s. The drop in seating from a 150 to a 172 is quite minimal when you consider the change from 3+2 to 2+2 seating, where on a busy service every seat will be filled rather than perhaps 80% in the case of 3+2 seating.

So, all the 172s are running by the end of the year, which means it may be next year before the 150s get cascaded elsewhere? If they've agreed on the split of LM 150s, of course.
It's nothing more than personal speculation, but I'm sceptical of the entirety of LMs' 172 fleet being in service by the end of the year: I predict that the first examples will be in use in early September, the entire 172/3 fleet will be in service by the end of the year and the final 172/2s will enter service by March 2012: It could be as late as the May 2012 timetable change before all the cascaded 150s have been dispersed to where they are wanted IMO (And it’s opinion only).

At least it’s good to see that some progress is being made as regards getting the fleet and staff in place for the long awaited introduction of these trains.
 

tbtc

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Yes, there is a serious consideration for London Midland to order a follow on option of 26 class 172 vehicles beyond the current order, although I'm afraid I can't find the DfT document that mentions this specifically.

Twenty six? Didn't realise we were talking such big numbers; that'd be excellent if it happened.

It's nothing more than personal speculation, but I'm sceptical of the entirety of LMs' 172 fleet being in service by the end of the year: I predict that the first examples will be in use in early September, the entire 172/3 fleet will be in service by the end of the year and the final 172/2s will enter service by March 2012: It could be as late as the May 2012 timetable change before all the cascaded 150s have been dispersed to where they are wanted IMO (And it’s opinion only)

You know more than I do. The problem is that if the 150s aren't getting cascaded until next year (allowing LM to retain some for a few months whilst "teething troubles" with the new units are ironed out) then that means it may be this time next year before Northern get their 150s, meaning another few months before EMT receive the 156s that they are getting (ex Northern, to allow all 158s to move onto Norwich - Liverpool services)... it'd almost be cheaper for EMT to just buy some new train than wait for the cascade to be completed!

At least it’s good to see that some progress is being made as regards getting the fleet and staff in place for the long awaited introduction of these trains

Agreed - to be honest a couple of years ago I wasn't sure we'd see another batch of DMUs, so to see such a decent sized class taking shape (albeit with different specifications for Chiltern and LO) is great news.
 

Techniquest

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Interesting that it says there's two 172s for staff familiarisation at Tyseley, I was to believe there was 4 of them about the place now on test runs. I do wonder though whether 172332 will actually get all of its seats put in soon? Seems to be parked in the exact same position every time I go by and looked to have just a very small number of seats fitted yesterday!

Noticed, just, that 172331 was leaving Tyseley and appeared to be either heading towards Stratford-upon-Avon or waiting for us to pass to head to Dorridge (saw it from on-board the 1555 Moor Street to Marylebone) yesterday. Another one ticked off now at least :)

Doesn't sound like it'll be long before the 172s start in passenger service then, it won't be the same when the 150s start disappearing! Every time I see a 172, I keep forgetting they've got diesel engines and expect them to make the same amount of noise as a 377! :lol: Hopefully I've got enough time to get 150106, 150124 and 150216 in the book before they head to new shores!
 

sprinterguy

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Yeah there are only two 172s at Tyseley at the moment, 172331 and 332, which only have bays of seats directly behind the driving cabs AFAIK. They’ve been active on sporadic driver training runs: I’m not sure if it was one of those two that I passed near Cradley Heath on Sunday afternoon or whether it was a diverted LM 170 away from its’ usual haunts.

It is rumoured that the delivery of 172333, which should have its’ full compliment of seats, is to take place very soon.
 

Techniquest

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Thanks for that confirmation. I'd heard there were 3 of them out on test yesterday and hoped to see some of them. Obviously I didn't see anything else apart from the glimpse of 172331, so glad to hear I didn't miss owt.

Gotta wonder when the DfT will decide what goes where once the 172s are all in. I'd sure like to know!
 

atsf_fT

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there were 4 LM 172s at tyseley today , 2 on depot ,another with its nose sticking out the maintenance shed , one came in from stratford direction driver training went in the depot, ghanged staff and went back out towards stratford again all within 10 mins , the passinger seats look nice :)

ill be goin back for a recheck tmrw ,this time with a camera !!
 

trains2064

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But do people often sit in the 3rd seat? From what I saw on green dot day people were standing, but no-one was sitting in the middle seats, especially in airline seats. So the fact that there is 2+2 seating means there is more standing room :)

Yes more standing room. The last time I was on a 150 in the rush our whih was packet out of the 13 middle seats only 3 were sat in.:-x
 

387star

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Assume LM have made no decision about the add on order.

Interestingly the DFT will refuse a continuation of the 172 production line.
 

swt_passenger

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Assume LM have made no decision about the add on order.

It wouldn't be LM's decision - DfT would have to approve it.

Interestingly the DFT will refuse a continuation of the 172 production line.

Is that a statement, your opinion, or a possibility? It isn't at all clear...
 

Drsatan

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Assume LM have made no decision about the add on order.

Interestingly the DFT will refuse a continuation of the 172 production line.

Haven't found anything that suggests this, although ideally the follow on order should go ahead just so Derby works are kept busy...
 
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172338 passed through Hall Green this afternoon around 13:40 going to Tyseley depot, it looked really good - it confused passengers as it stopped in station for about a minute and had Stourbridge Jcn on the destination screen and then people saw big notices on the door that the train is not in service!!
 

atsf_fT

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there was i think 4 out driver training today , 172332, 38 on the stratford run
and i saw two leave the depot and head towards birmingham , i was told by a rail staff member they also do driver training runs to worcester ,so maybe thats were they were heading ?? 331 and 333 were also in the depot .

15002 has had new ,or repainted bogies and the lower blue band has also been painted .

photos from today at tyseley

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150016 just being taken out of service ,with problems with the midlle cars
transmission .



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ok first attempt at putting photos failed ! lets try again !

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Class172

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Excellent shots there :) - would you mind if I use one of your pictures as my avatar?

Thanks
Dan
 

anthony263

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excellent photos there. I am looking forward to someone getting an interior shot of 1 of these units.
 

Pumbaa

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The whole exhaust assembly looks a mess.

And any idea why they haven't had the City branding applied to them like their 170 counterparts?
 

Class172

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The whole exhaust assembly looks a mess.

And any idea why they haven't had the City branding applied to them like their 170 counterparts?
I thought that too: odd that as the 172 duties are definitely more urban than what a 170 does. :|
 

swt_passenger

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According to Today's Railways UK this week all the 172/3s for LM are complete and available for delivery...
 

Class172

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Does 172331/332 have the full seating yet or will they need to be sent back to Litchurch for fitting?
 
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