London Midland Penalty Fare

[yorkie]

You might be right, but if so - that seems harsh to me. At face value this is much more convincing than much of the stuff often trotted out in dispute threads, such as "I didn't notice the TVM" or "I wanted to pay by cash". I think it faintly ridiculous to suggest that knocking on the window is a bad idea.

I've got news for you:

1) Some TVMs are not at all noticeable; and
2) Cash is a valid payment method

Surprised you may be, but the above are undeniable facts.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think you should be charging them a £20 admin fee for the hassle they've put you through. Perhaps it will cancel out with the one they're trying to levy.

(On a less just but more serious note, paying their fee will be the easiest and safest way to end all this)

Agreed on both counts, though the OP could try contacting LM, as some of their Customer Services staff are pretty good.

 

[ChrisMcFall]

Rang their CS but no one is about who knows PF inside and out, I'll call back when they're back in office. Didn't really get anywhere with RPSS

 

[bb21]

When did you send your appeal in?

 

[ChrisMcFall]

Sent it on 21/6, they received on 24/6, reply with successful outcome on 3/7. I guessed that would have wiped out my fine but I guess not from what I've been told by RPSS, and from closer examination of the PF slip.

 

[34D]

I would be inclined to send just £2 to the TOC

 

[bnm]

Agreed. Send just the fare due in full and final settlement.

They've cancelled the Penalty Fare so it is a bit rich to now be demanding an 'Administration Fee' of £20.

Any administration in this matter has arisen out of London Midland's failings, not the OPs. They should not be charging £20 for their own incompetence. If the response, outlining a successful PF appeal cancelling the £20, did not request the actual fare due then that should be the end of the matter.

To now demand a £20 'Admin fee' smacks of pettiness. Although it is probably cock-up rather than conspiracy.

 

[broadgage]

Hey all, thanks for the advice. I took it on board and wrote my letter to the appeals service, emphasising times I got there, waited, and the time before the next train (At a 2TPH local station)

I'm pleased to say that my appeal was successful. I've learnt a lot from this experience, and in the future I will certainly take on board advice about photographing the ticket office if a similar experience happens, then seeking out the guard on board.

Thanks for all the advice guys!

Glad to hear of your favourable outcome.
I can see the merits of photographing the ticket office and the machine in similar circumstances.

But this sort of thing does not exactly improve the image of the rail industry.
Many infrequent rail users consider that rail travel is not only hugely costly, but also complicated and full of traps used to impose "fines" on those they manage to catch out.
We have recently had a thread on ticket machines hidden in a hut on another platform, and the consequent "fines" imposed.
And one on a ticket office in an odd place, such that someone with a fare to pay might reasonably miss it and be "fined"
And now we need photgraphic proof of unmanned ticket offices.

So whos going to write a guide on not getting caught out ? Here is a start.

1) if there appears to be no means of buying a ticket, remember to search the station thouroughly for any TVM hiden under the stairs or in a hut on another platform.

2) If you arrive by train at a station without a ticket and need to buy one, take telephone advice as to the location of the ticket office, BEFORE LEAVING THE PLATFORM as otherwise you might miss the ticket office, and be caught by inspectors hiding round the corner. "open and shut case. Had no ticket, was caught leaving without attempting to pay"

3) If no one is available to sell you a ticket, make certain that you have photographic proof of this.

4) When setting out to buy a ticket, make certain that you have the right money in cash, and at least two different plastic payment cards. Not having the railways prefered means of payment is not allways considered a valid excuse.

5) If you have a ticket valid only on a particular train, make absolutely certain that you get on the right one. Dont assume that a ticket is valid on the train leaving at the time printed on the ticket ! It might be an earlier train that is running late.

 

[jon0844]

6) Always have at least triple the amount of coins you need to pay, in case the coin validators reject one or more coins.

7) Even if you do everything possible to pay, take photos, video, provide a sworn affidavit of the fact, and take out a full page advertisement in The Times to list everything you attempted, it's still your fault.

 

[34D]

Glad to hear of your favourable outcome.
I can see the merits of photographing the ticket office and the machine in similar circumstances.

But this sort of thing does not exactly improve the image of the rail industry.
Many infrequent rail users consider that rail travel is not only hugely costly, but also complicated and full of traps used to impose "fines" on those they manage to catch out.
We have recently had a thread on ticket machines hidden in a hut on another platform, and the consequent "fines" imposed.
And one on a ticket office in an odd place, such that someone with a fare to pay might reasonably miss it and be "fined"
And now we need photgraphic proof of unmanned ticket offices.

So whos going to write a guide on not getting caught out ? Here is a start.

1) if there appears to be no means of buying a ticket, remember to search the station thouroughly for any TVM hiden under the stairs or in a hut on another platform.

2) If you arrive by train at a station without a ticket and need to buy one, take telephone advice as to the location of the ticket office, BEFORE LEAVING THE PLATFORM as otherwise you might miss the ticket office, and be caught by inspectors hiding round the corner. "open and shut case. Had no ticket, was caught leaving without attempting to pay"

3) If no one is available to sell you a ticket, make certain that you have photographic proof of this.

4) When setting out to buy a ticket, make certain that you have the right money in cash, and at least two different plastic payment cards. Not having the railways prefered means of payment is not allways considered a valid excuse.

5) If you have a ticket valid only on a particular train, make absolutely certain that you get on the right one. Dont assume that a ticket is valid on the train leaving at the time printed on the ticket ! It might be an earlier train that is running late.

I think this should go in a sticky.

Sadly, some TOC seem to think it is good advice.

It is much harder to establish that something isn't there than it is

 

[Darandio]

4) When setting out to buy a ticket, make certain that you have the right money in cash, and at least two different plastic payment cards. Not having the railways prefered means of payment is not allways considered a valid excuse.

I know the guide is meant well, but you do know that some people won't even have one piece of plastic, never mind two different?

 

[jon0844]

I know the guide is meant well, but you do know that some people won't even have one piece of plastic, never mind two different?

While some of the 'guide' was good advice, I rather hoped it was also an attempt at humour and not completely serious.

 

[Darandio]

While some of the 'guide' was good advice, I rather hoped it was also an attempt at humour and not completely serious.

Yes, my SOH-ometer isn't working well today, I blame the heat.

 

[ChrisMcFall]

Rang LM today and they've put a note on the fare to state that I shouldn't have an Admin fee and that I just owe the fare, just logged into RRPS to pay that, to see another £20 has been put onto the amount. The letter I recieved from RRPS is dated 9/7/13 and states that I have 14 days to pay before another £20 is added on, no idea what's going on

 

[bb21]

Just pay them the fare owed. They can sort out the rest themselves.

That said, if it puts your mind at ease, you might as well give LM another call.

 

[ChrisMcFall]

Would I have to ring RRPS to pay the fare? They were only accepting 'full amounts' over the phone. I'll ring LM back tomorrow, their PF department was helpful.

 

[bb21]

You could try ringing RRPS people, but given how incompetent they are I would rather ring up LM if I were you.

 

[island]

Would I have to ring RRPS to pay the fare? They were only accepting 'full amounts' over the phone. I'll ring LM back tomorrow, their PF department was helpful.

Send them a cheque?

 

[bnm]

Send them a cheque?

And an invoice for your time, the hassle, and the inconvenience.

 

[ChrisMcFall]

Just a final update. I paid London Midland over the phone, and I haven't received any more correspondence from RRPS. Thanks for all the help everyone. I'll be e-mailing LM about the experience and to enquire further about their plans to install ticket machines at such stations to save hassle like this in the future.

 

[bb21]

Thanks for the update. Glad that things are resolved in a satisfactory manner.