London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[Chrism20]

Even more galling I was in J and from Berwick to Edinburgh there were 6 Catering Staff sat in the coach doing SFA. Could not one of them be bothered to get off their arses and see if anyone wanted anything else :roll:

This is fast becoming the norm, particularly on Northbound services that depart Newcastle after around 7pm.

Last week on one service the entire crew except the lass on the counter at the buffet were sitting cackling at the top of K. A man in a suit (Sitting in K5) got up as the train was passing through Morpeth, walked the length of the carriage and told them that it was the quiet coach and then asked if they had nothing better to do and that he would be complaining.

 

[DarloRich]

oh how you will wish for the old days once Stagecoach take over. There will be a substantial reduction in service quality.

 

[Butts]

oh how you will wish for the old days once Stagecoach take over. There will be a substantial reduction in service quality.

And this thread will finally come to an end

 

[Deerfold]

And this thread will finally come to an end

Don't you believe it

 

[Blindtraveler]

I would think that there will be a good deal more consistancy when Virgin start up.

 

[ModernRailways]

And this thread will finally come to an end

I'm sure we can keep it going Arguably, it will still be the East Coast first class service, only Virgin will be operating it.

Isn't this the longest thread on the forums too?

 

[Deerfold]

Isn't this the longest thread on the forums too?

Not by a long way. There's a thread which I'm not going to encourage with more than 3 times as many posts.

 

[Iskra]

I was on one of the "Blue Riband" Services yesterday, namely the 1800 from Kings Cross to Edinburgh.

In my opinion there has been a deterioration since I last experienced The Evening Meal departure (unless I was just unlucky !!!)

Last time there was a Drinks Run before and after Dinner with a "Pretzel or Nuts" offering on the initial run.

This time there was only a pre-dinner run and no "aperitif accompaniment" in sight. How much is a micro packet of pretzels for gods sake :roll:

My choice of Main Course was the Chicken Tikka Masala served with Rice not a nam or poppadum to go with it. The "happy meal" sized portion was dished up together in a bowl. It wasn't bad but hardly a sustaining offering.

The Cheese was a complete joke, two "dairylea triangle" sized bits, three micro crackers about the size of a fifty pence , apricot loaf of the same proportions and no apple as advertised.

There was a further booze run after York and a final (as it turned out) one ex Newcastle. There was no "in and out" or double up proffered at any stage.

Even more galling I was in J and from Berwick to Edinburgh there were 6 Catering Staff sat in the coach doing SFA. Could not one of them be bothered to get off their arses and see if anyone wanted anything else :roll:

If I'd paid serious money for a ticket I would have been even more ****ed of than I was.

Very Poor East Coast
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You'll be lucky - or must have a small appetite

To be fair I'm currently in 1st between Glasgow and Preston on VT and the portions weren't exactly amazing either, the cheese and biscuits sounds exactly the same as EC. The only thing that's clearly better is that the staff seem more professional than yesterday's EC lot.

 

[Butts]

Not by a long way. There's a thread which I'm not going to encourage with more than 3 times as many posts.

What is the attraction of Stagecoach NW Fleet Changes - beats me
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To be fair I'm currently in 1st between Glasgow and Preston on VT and the portions weren't exactly amazing either, the cheese and biscuits sounds exactly the same as EC. The only thing that's clearly better is that the staff seem more professional than yesterday's EC lot.

Just when did the wheels come off onboard "free catering" - or should I say when was it de-railed !!

 

[Blindtraveler]

It was always only going to be a matter of time till they realised how much they were losing. Wonder what the Restaurants dont make money appologists are thinking now?
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Divdrting slightly but still on the subject of EC First Class, this is happening tomorrow
http://www.ecfm.co.uk/2015/01/history-being-made-by-east-coast-107-6fm/
I believe on the 10:00x EDB and the 15:00x KGX. This is one of my other hobbies and whilst not personally involved its quite facinating.

 

[Tetchytyke]

oh how you will wish for the old days once Stagecoach take over. There will be a substantial reduction in service quality.

I've always been very impressed with Virgin's first class offering during the week. I know Stagecoach are running the show, but it's Virgin's name above the door.

The standard of on-board service with EC has always been variable. Half the crews can't do enough for you, nothing is too much bother, the booze is flowing freely. And the other half act as though every miniature Grouse is coming directly out of their wages. I've never understood it.

I used to regularly get the 1730 Newcastle and there'd be a glass of wine in my hand before we even left the station. T'missus caught it last week and found the same thing. Yet I've caught other trains at a similar time, e.g. the 1700 Edinburgh, and everything is too much trouble.

Generally I've found they do two booze runs on the Leeds trains (though if I've asked for more they've always given me one more) and three between London and Newcastle.

As for portions, the chocolate bread and butter pudding last week was enormous.
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It was always only going to be a matter of time till they realised how much they were losing. Wonder what the Restaurants dont make money appologists are thinking now?

They're not losing much, given that first class generally seems to be fuller than in GNER days. The restaurants never made a profit. Most people who didn't want the restaurants to go were standard class passengers who wanted an upgrade on the cheap.

Each glass of wine probably costs them about 50p.

I've said before and I'll say it again. I couldn't justify first class to my boss when all you got was a cup of tea and a crappy biscuit. Now food is thrown in I can.

 

[Chrism20]

I'd say you're being overly generous with the 50p a glass there Arctic. Having worked in catering a while back they are probably averaging between £2.50 and £4 per passenger for the first class service. The canned drinks may push that up a bit but it won't be £5 a head that's for sure - unless Butts and I have went to town on the scotch

The one thing that has always surprised me with EC and Also Virgin on the WCML is they don't run a "Paid for" trolley through first class at the weekends. I know the Buffet/shop is there and people can walk along to it but I regularly see people asking for stuff and offering to pay for it at the weekend and they are told to get it themselves - then they don't bother moving. Most people don't bother with an alcoholic drink but would be tempted to purchase if it were offered.

For the time it would take it could make a fortune (particularly in alcohol and sweets) on some of the busy services.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I remember in national distress days when just this very thing happened and on one run on the sunday Chieften I asked the stuard how it did normally and he said he'd taken over £100 in booz sales alone between PTH and FKG. This shows its popular I would have thought?

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'd say you're being overly generous with the 50p a glass there Arctic. Having worked in catering a while back they are probably averaging between £2.50 and £4 per passenger for the first class service. The canned drinks may push that up a bit but it won't be £5 a head that's for sure - unless Butts and I have went to town on the scotch

The thing that will push it up will be the chef's wages on the "dinner train" services. The pop will cost them pence- I can get it for 20p a can at Costco if I buy enough- and the miniatures won't be a great deal more expensive.

I'd agree about the lack of sales on a weekend. FGW and EMT are good at selling you extras and bringing it back from the buffet counter for you. This is probably more of an issue with the Pendolinos, as it's a bloomin' long walk to the shop from coach H. But I'm surprised they don't do it on EastCoast, it's not as though they're rushed off their feet on a weekend.

 

[Chrism20]

I remember in national distress days when just this very thing happened and on one run on the sunday Chieften I asked the stuard how it did normally and he said he'd taken over £100 in booz sales alone between PTH and FKG. This shows its popular I would have thought?

This does not surprise me at all. Captive audience.

The thing that will push it up will be the chef's wages on the "dinner train" services. The pop will cost them pence- I can get it for 20p a can at Costco if I buy enough- and the miniatures won't be a great deal more expensive.

Surely the Chef will just replace the member of crew who would have normally have done the cooking. Unless they are paying the Chefs £30k a year it wont be a massive difference. I'm actually surprised that the Chefs have lasted tbh.

I'd agree about the lack of sales on a weekend. FGW and EMT are good at selling you extras and bringing it back from the buffet counter for you. This is probably more of an issue with the Pendolinos, as it's a bloomin' long walk to the shop from coach H. But I'm surprised they don't do it on EastCoast, it's not as though they're rushed off their feet on a weekend.

It's madness and given that NXEC done it when EC passed to DOR I'm surprised that it's something they didn't continue especially at the weekend where it's mainly leisure and people are more inclined to relax and purchase alcohol.

I see what you mean about the Pendolinos and the trek. A small stock in the kitchen would solve that one but I'm guessing both are happy with it as it is.

 

[Iskra]

I was on one of the "Blue Riband" Services yesterday, namely the 1800 from Kings Cross to Edinburgh.

In my opinion there has been a deterioration since I last experienced The Evening Meal departure (unless I was just unlucky !!!)

Last time there was a Drinks Run before and after Dinner with a "Pretzel or Nuts" offering on the initial run.

This time there was only a pre-dinner run and no "aperitif accompaniment" in sight. How much is a micro packet of pretzels for gods sake :roll:

My choice of Main Course was the Chicken Tikka Masala served with Rice not a nam or poppadum to go with it. The "happy meal" sized portion was dished up together in a bowl. It wasn't bad but hardly a sustaining offering.

The Cheese was a complete joke, two "dairylea triangle" sized bits, three micro crackers about the size of a fifty pence , apricot loaf of the same proportions and no apple as advertised.

There was a further booze run after York and a final (as it turned out) one ex Newcastle. There was no "in and out" or double up proffered at any stage.

Even more galling I was in J and from Berwick to Edinburgh there were 6 Catering Staff sat in the coach doing SFA. Could not one of them be bothered to get off their arses and see if anyone wanted anything else :roll:

If I'd paid serious money for a ticket I would have been even more ****ed of than I was.

Very Poor East Coast
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You'll be lucky - or must have a small appetite

I've had the Chicken Tikka Massala now, and have to agree that the portion was quite small, it did taste better than I was expecting though. There's not really much excuse for a small portion, the curry can't have been that expensive and the rice is dirt cheap. I've found the EC crews very liberal this week when it comes to coffee, sandwiches and cake, but not much else.

I've also had the breakfast this week and that did leave me feeling full, so was therefore good value IMO.

I have noticed a pattern that the London crews tend to be sullen, fec-kless, unhelpful and everything you ask of them is too much. The crews from the North/Scotland seem to be a bit more competent, helpful and generous. I think EC need to look at the way they recruit their catering staff. Their guards this week have been exceptionally good, so why some of the catering staff are so poor is a bit strange- they should both have the same customer service skills/ethos.

 

[Bishopstone]

I have noticed a pattern that the London crews tend to be sullen, ****less, unhelpful and everything you ask of them is too much. The crews from the North/Scotland seem to be a bit more competent, helpful and generous. I think EC need to look at the way they recruit their catering staff. Their guards this week have been exceptionally good, so why some of the catering staff are so poor is a bit strange- they should both have the same customer service skills/ethos.

Do East Coast pay much (if any) enhanced wages to London-based catering crew, versus those based in other parts?

The fact is, there is no shortage of work in London, and much of it (even in catering/customer service) comes without the shifts and anti-social hours of the railway. I appreciate railway employment offers some advantages not found elsewhere, and for many roles there are lots of applicants, but nevertheless you are fishing in a shallower pool in London/south east.

 

[Iskra]

Do East Coast pay much (if any) enhanced wages to London-based catering crew, versus those based in other parts?

The fact is, there is no shortage of work in London, and much of it (even in catering/customer service) comes without the shifts and anti-social hours of the railway. I appreciate railway employment offers some advantages not found elsewhere, and for many roles there are lots of applicants, but nevertheless you are fishing in a shallower pool in London/south east.

Hmm, presumably it's swings and roundabouts when it comes to hours- with rotations between early and late shifts. It doesn't seem a difficult job, and I expect they're on better money than similar non-railway catering personnel, so can't understand why some of them are miserable. Yes, they may have to deal with the occasional unpleasant person, but that happens in most jobs.

 

[Chrism20]

Last Saturday I travelled EC from Edinburgh to York on the 10:30 and this week I travelled from Edinburgh to Preston on the 10:52 so I thought it would be good to compare the service between the two given that they were roughly the same time on the same day of the week and around the same journey time.

During the week I would say on recent experience there isn't mich in it but Virgin probably win due to it not being a chore to get something.

At the weekends its a different story altogether.

EC - tea and coffee immediately after departure followed by food/drinks trolley. Choice of sandwiches, cake crisps and soft drinks.

Virgin - To be fair there are some advantages. The tea and coffee is drinkable which is a start, however 'the snack box' is something else. I was handed what looked like a picnic hamper and at first I was astonished as it was easily ten times the size of the box I was given the last time I travelled with them at the weekend. It was also quite heavy. I thought oh good they have improved this at last - and then I opened it!

The weight was due to a bottle of water along with a sachet of diluting juice, cathedral city mini bites (very nice), crisps (without salt???), cadburys mini fingers, raisin and yoghurt mix (with only raisins in it) and four tictacs.

The excitement wore of very quickly and thankfully I had brought a sandwich with me. To be fair there was cans of Pepsi, diet pepsi and more water provided en-masse - I was asked how many I wanted rather than one and then being barked at when asking for a second which was good.

So imo EC wins hands down at the weekend mainly due to the fact there is something substantial on offer.

I'm back on Friday morning on a breakfast service so if anyone is interested let me know and I'll provide a comparison of both.

 

[Starmill]

Virgin give out 250ml cans of pop*, rather than EC's 330ml ones, so they are almost always more than happy to give you two at once. I wouldn't expect to get two 330ml cans though, but I guess there's no problem on either asking for a hot drink and a cold drink.

Virgin have as you day improved the Snack Box, their suppliers are DHL now and they're impressive. Not nearly as impressive as East Coast though, who I think are the only ones who offer sandwiches at the weekend?

*except for the Lemonade, which is 150ml for some reason...

 

[Chrism20]

Virgin give out 250ml cans of pop*, rather than EC's 330ml ones, so they are almost always more than happy to give you two at once. I wouldn't expect to get two 330ml cans though, but I guess there's no problem on either asking for a hot drink and a cold drink.

Yes they are the smaller ones. Two adults and a kid sitting opposite got eight and were offered more on the way back. It's the small things like that which make make the difference in service levels, the lad serving had the commonsense to to offer in the first place.

On saying that I would prefer Coke to Pepsi any day.

I did also have to laugh at the member of staff who was working the train, by the accent he was Birmingham based and had brought the train up in the morning. He was so tall - probably about 6'6" he must have hit his head about six times going through the quiet coach which is a little lower due to the pan on the roof.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

An improvement of several minutes on my personal best for 1st coffee and full English served this morning on the 0650 ex-Glasgow Central to King's Cross. Extra toast and marmalade offered soon after Edinburgh as well.

Not so much fun for those slumming in Standard though - no buffet until after Newcastle and a stuck door.

 

[Chrism20]

Have sampled the pasta this evening and as others have said it was very nice. I was going to go for the toad in the hole but changed my mind when someone sitting opposite described the one they had the other week as 'An old brick'. I took that to mean avoid so I did. Going by the looks of some others this was a wise move.

The pasta is very tasty although I think it really should be in a bowl as it is a little messy and the sauce was running off the plate when served. Again needs something to go with it such as a bread roll or a slice of garlic bread.


I also done my Virgin breakfast the other day. As with the outbound journey on the Saturday there wasn't much between the two.

Hot drinks immediately after departure with orders taken immediately after that. The options were meat or veggie grill, bacon or sausage butty or smoked salmon and eggs. I opted for the meat grill which contained fried egg, sausage, hash brown, half a tomato and two slices of very thick bacon. NO black pudding unfortunately.

A lady sitting opposite had the salmon which looked very nice. Huge plateful with eggs that had clearly just been scrambled - she was also the last to be served.

ECs sausage is far superior but Virgin have fried egg so it's 50/50 I reckon. Virgins bacon was also a little bit saltier which I liked.

Juice offered after every stop along with hot drinks which was good. ECs OJ is much nicer but Virgin have nailed the tea which seems hotter and not cross contaminated.

Toast - 2 slices offered without asking which was good but again ECs brown bread is much nicer.

It will be interesting to see which one wins through in a few months time with the new franchise as EMT breakfast IIRC is also very nice.

 

[Butts]

Have sampled the pasta this evening and as others have said it was very nice. I was going to go for the toad in the hole but changed my mind when someone sitting opposite described the one they had the other week as 'An old brick'. I took that to mean avoid so I did. Going by the looks of some others this was a wise move.

The pasta is very tasty although I think it really should be in a bowl as it is a little messy and the sauce was running off the plate when served. Again needs something to go with it such as a bread roll or a slice of garlic bread.


I also done my Virgin breakfast the other day. As with the outbound journey on the Saturday there wasn't much between the two.

Hot drinks immediately after departure with orders taken immediately after that. The options were meat or veggie grill, bacon or sausage butty or smoked salmon and eggs. I opted for the meat grill which contained fried egg, sausage, hash brown, half a tomato and two slices of very thick bacon. NO black pudding unfortunately. A lady sitting opposite had the salmon which looked very nice. Huge plateful with eggs that had clearly just been scrambled - she was also the last to be served.

ECs sausage is far superior but Virgin have fried egg so it's 50/50 I reckon. Virgins bacon was also a little bit saltier which I liked.

Juice offered after every stop along with hot drinks which was good. ECs OJ is much nicer but Virgin have nailed the tea which seems hotter and not cross contaminated.

Toast - 2 slices offered without asking which was good but again ECs brown bread is much nicer.

It will be interesting to see which one wins through in a few months time with the new franchise as EMT breakfast IIRC is also very nice.

Have they stopped doing BP ?

 

[dave87016]

No they haven't stopped doing Black Pudding on Virgin but sometimes you get it sometimes you don't , wish Virgin did mushrooms though, EMT breakfast is fantastic slightly beats East Coast offering

 

[Butts]

No they haven't stopped doing Black Pudding on Virgin but sometimes you get it sometimes you don't , wish Virgin did mushrooms though, EMT breakfast is fantastic slightly beats East Coast offering

That's a relief about the BP.....

If EMT's paid for Breakfast only slightly beats EC's "freebie" that would be worrying to me.

I would expect "proper sized portions" if I was paying for it

 

[leightonbd]

Have sampled the pasta this evening and as others have said it was very nice. I was going to go for the toad in the hole but changed my mind when someone sitting opposite described the one they had the other week as 'An old brick'. I took that to mean avoid so I did. Going by the looks of some others this was a wise move.

I tried the toad yesterday evening, southbound from Aberdeen. Good sausages and a decent onion gravy which was pretty necessary because the batter was a bit, shall we say, crispy.

A difficult thing to do on the train really. Surprised they chose to do it.

Nevertheless I would take it again, and certainly in preference to the available alternatives (bean sandwich, pasta) which were too carby for me.

Great service with generous pours of wine.

 

[Starmill]

That's a relief about the BP.....

If EMT's paid for Breakfast only slightly beats EC's "freebie" that would be worrying to me.

I would expect "proper sized portions" if I was paying for it

Erm EMT's breakfast is allegedly now complimentary?

 

[Chrism20]

Have they stopped doing BP ?

As Dave says it comes and goes. That was the first time I was on a VT breakfast train for a while. Normally I get the 1051 or 1251 from Edinburgh so it's lunch and sandwiches at that time.

That's a relief about the BP.....

If EMT's paid for Breakfast only slightly beats EC's "freebie" that would be worrying to me.

I would expect "proper sized portions" if I was paying for it

EMTs breakfast is now gratis southbound during the week. I think you still have to pre-book at the weekend. There is a list of services it is served on the website. Oops I see starmill beat me to it.

Here is the website though with the page in question.

I tried the toad yesterday evening, southbound from Aberdeen. Good sausages and a decent onion gravy which was pretty necessary because the batter was a bit, shall we say, crispy.

A difficult thing to do on the train really. Surprised they chose to do it.

Nevertheless I would take it again, and certainly in preference to the available alternatives (bean sandwich, pasta) which were too carby for me.

Great service with generous pours of wine.

I had the Toad myself today on the way back from Darlington. There was no pasta or ham sandwiches left. The bean sandwiches are nice but you really have to be in the mood for them. Sausages very nice as was the gravy. The batter on mine wasn't too crispy but yes I agree it's a bold thing to attempt on a train. Like everything else though it is missing something to go with it - ie mash or carrots or something - anything in fact!

 

[Butts]

Erm EMT's breakfast is allegedly now complimentary?

Is it the same choice and portion size as when you had to pay for it ?