The menu is the same on all services but it rotates on a Wednesday (there are 4 rotations). I'm not sure what will be on offer on Wednesday but it will be similar to what's on the booklet currently (probably just a different hot snack). Yorkshire Rider might know more...
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London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service
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RailUK Forums
When I went to and from York last week the All Day Menu was being served on both journeys. Going it was similar to the sample menu, but with one option Ham Hock salad with new potatoes and a mustard dressing, which I had; and coming back it was the same as the sample menu, except they don't do the Vegatable Byriani anymore, it had been replaced with something else. I had the Cray fish and noodle salad, which was great.
YorkshireRider
Member
This Wednesday will be the start of rotation 3, in theory you should be offered a choice of egg and cress/chicken ceaser sandwiches or a tuna nicoise salad or a hot red pepper and feta tart, with a piece of pear and ginger cake and fruit.
More than I am with the Southbound evening meal service.
Hunger drives the thread forward
Now, now, puns don't come with the meals.
So now that the offer has been going on for a while I thought it might be fun to look back at some pre-May menus. You can find the first class at-seat menu here (which I think is a fairer comparison with the present offer than the full restaurant) and for those of us who travel standard class hereis your Cafe Bar menu. (Links may take a moment longer than normal to load).
I have to say it seems to me that whilst this new one is free the old one was far far better for standard class passengers and also better for first class. And of course you had to be rather unlucky to come across a service without a chef (at least on the anglo-scot route) whereas now if you want a meal you really do have to pick and choose (and tough luck if you're travelling southbound on an evening).
I have to say it seems to me that whilst this new one is free the old one was far far better for standard class passengers and also better for first class. And of course you had to be rather unlucky to come across a service without a chef (at least on the anglo-scot route) whereas now if you want a meal you really do have to pick and choose (and tough luck if you're travelling southbound on an evening).
Butts
Veteran Member
So your conclusion would be that the service change is a failure ?
ie for the worse.From my own personal point of view yes I would say it's been a failure. It could still be rescued (I've put my thoughts down on that elsewhere) but unless there is some sort of change it's a fail in my book.
Now EC may not see it like that if revenue is up and FC passenger numbers stay up (though I'm not convinced that they will stay up seeing as I think EC benefited from people giving it a go and also the £25 offer they ran, so watch this space over the next 6-12 months), they would probably see it as a roaring success. But I suppose this is the clash of a business minded company and customer service minded individual.
Now EC may not see it like that if revenue is up and FC passenger numbers stay up (though I'm not convinced that they will stay up seeing as I think EC benefited from people giving it a go and also the £25 offer they ran, so watch this space over the next 6-12 months), they would probably see it as a roaring success. But I suppose this is the clash of a business minded company and customer service minded individual.
Blindtraveler
Established Member
have to support ainsworth, epick fail!
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
I agree.
+ 1
+ 1
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I agree as well BUT surely if revenue is up and FC passenger numbers stay up IS all EC will be worried about.
That is the big question for me, though - is revenue really up taking into consideration the cheap ticket offers? If it is, how much of that is related to the £25 tickets rather than the catering? And will passenger numbers stay up once the 'let's try it out' effect has worn off?
All of these questions would be on mymind if I were EC, despite the spin they put on things.
Nothing I've read on here makes me want to pay extra to go first class. My only reason to go first would be when an advance ticket makes it stupid not to.
Having built a very nice standard class area, that will do me just fine. I can then bring my own food, or go to the shop. Simple, cheaper and by the sound of it, easier.
Clearly I'm not the target market though, so if they're getting more businessmen and women into first (perhaps having come over from flying) then that's great, but I think it will take a while to be able to really tell if that's the case. Even if they did get people to come over, what happens if they decide to go back later on, or just see that perhaps standard class is actually perfectly fine.
(Trains to me offer many advantages over flying, so it's not about being pampered on the train - just having a seat and being able to relax and do some work, watch a movie, kill time with a game or Twitter/Facebook, rest or look out of the window)
Having built a very nice standard class area, that will do me just fine. I can then bring my own food, or go to the shop. Simple, cheaper and by the sound of it, easier.
Clearly I'm not the target market though, so if they're getting more businessmen and women into first (perhaps having come over from flying) then that's great, but I think it will take a while to be able to really tell if that's the case. Even if they did get people to come over, what happens if they decide to go back later on, or just see that perhaps standard class is actually perfectly fine.
(Trains to me offer many advantages over flying, so it's not about being pampered on the train - just having a seat and being able to relax and do some work, watch a movie, kill time with a game or Twitter/Facebook, rest or look out of the window)
The only thing that would tempt me into FC on EC is if I was doing a very long journey and wanted a more spacious environment and a more comfortable, and the fare was not much more than the standard fare.
The current catering arrangements are more of a disincentive for me personally, unless the FC fare is dirt cheap. It seems that you only get what they want to give you, and at a time that suits the company, rather than being able to take advantage of buffet, shop or even a restaurant to get what you want, when you want it.
The current catering arrangements are more of a disincentive for me personally, unless the FC fare is dirt cheap. It seems that you only get what they want to give you, and at a time that suits the company, rather than being able to take advantage of buffet, shop or even a restaurant to get what you want, when you want it.
I'd consider FC on some trains, but find the room on a standard class EC (or FGW) train to be just fine.
I suppose that any modern train is going to be pretty decent in Standard (on an Intercity service) so TOCs will need to find other ways to entice people to pay more - and that could be from what service you get on the train, and also before/after the journey.
Having been on Virgin Upper Class, you're picked up in a limo from home and taken on to your destination by limo at the other end - with a lovely lounge area (much nicer than Euston for Virgin!), showers etc. But, I can't see EC going that far - even if they could then up the price of a ticket to £1000!
In any case, many companies now expect staff to travel standard, and given I can work quite easily on a MacBook Air in a standard class seat (as long as I have a table or a decent fold down tray), I'd find it hard to even ask to go first - unless it was the same price or little more by being booked in advance. In my case, any trip I make to Bath is likely to be very short notice and so advance tickets aren't even an option.
As time goes on, with the economy taking a while to recover, I think there will be more people like you and me than high-flyers who can afford to shell out the extra. Even people with a lot of disposable income may not have as much as they did, and could 'slum' it on a train to enjoy the other luxuries - like nice holidays, car, nights out etc.
I suppose that any modern train is going to be pretty decent in Standard (on an Intercity service) so TOCs will need to find other ways to entice people to pay more - and that could be from what service you get on the train, and also before/after the journey.
Having been on Virgin Upper Class, you're picked up in a limo from home and taken on to your destination by limo at the other end - with a lovely lounge area (much nicer than Euston for Virgin!), showers etc. But, I can't see EC going that far - even if they could then up the price of a ticket to £1000!
In any case, many companies now expect staff to travel standard, and given I can work quite easily on a MacBook Air in a standard class seat (as long as I have a table or a decent fold down tray), I'd find it hard to even ask to go first - unless it was the same price or little more by being booked in advance. In my case, any trip I make to Bath is likely to be very short notice and so advance tickets aren't even an option.
As time goes on, with the economy taking a while to recover, I think there will be more people like you and me than high-flyers who can afford to shell out the extra. Even people with a lot of disposable income may not have as much as they did, and could 'slum' it on a train to enjoy the other luxuries - like nice holidays, car, nights out etc.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
I'm travellling First tomorrow, because all the STD Advances have gone. It will cost me a lot less. No doubt the EC PR team would pretend that it demonstrates a satisfied customer.
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In some cases I am prepared to pay a little bit mroe than the standard fare - IIRC the journey to Gatwick I mentioned in other threads was £40 odd rather than £25, but it provided the chance of a seat out of Reading, which we would not have had on the 1737 otherwise!
The nice elather seats and a complimentary tea and biscuits up to Reading was a bonus, rather than the reasonfor booking FC in the first place.
That said, for most journeys I am quite happy in standard, and I often don;t even look at the FC fares!
The nice elather seats and a complimentary tea and biscuits up to Reading was a bonus, rather than the reasonfor booking FC in the first place.
That said, for most journeys I am quite happy in standard, and I often don;t even look at the FC fares!
If you need FC to get a seat, that's one thing. However, if you reserve a seat then that problem goes away (or you get to the train quick and board the carriage with no reservations).
In terms of securing a seat, I'd say FC ticket is probably more important for non-Intercity travel - except FC may not be enforced properly there anyway.
In terms of securing a seat, I'd say FC ticket is probably more important for non-Intercity travel - except FC may not be enforced properly there anyway.
Ona connecting service it is usually impossible to get a reservation. I guess you are correct about enforcement on some lines and routes, but then if we couldn't get a seat I might help out in this area myself!!!
Butts
Veteran Member
I agree with you on a short journey (say under an hour) standard is okay.
However if you are tall (I remember you mentioning you had short legs -as you were welsh ? on another thread) certain 2nd Class is not adequate in my opinion. I am 6'3" so need a bit of room.
I will pay a BIT extra for this and the freebies are a bonus
I agree with you on a short journey (say under an hour) standard is okay.
However if you are tall (I remember you mentioning you had short legs -as you were welsh ? on another thread) certain 2nd Class is not adequate in my opinion. I am 6'3" so need a bit of room.
I will pay a BIT extra for this and the freebies are a bonus
I think that complimentary items are a bonus, where they exist - I wouldn't choose to go FC because of them though. And if I noticed a FC Advance was less than a standard Advance ticket, then the fact that there are freebies or not is totally irrelevant!
TBH, I'm not sure that the TOC's undertsnad this way of thinking - do they think passengers are happy to pay a lot extra just because there are some free drinks and a few snacks thrown in?
I do have short legs, but the most uncomfortable trains for me are those that don;t have first class anyway! Like the 153's in West Wales, where I found most of the seats have me scraping my knees against the one in front, despite my shortness in the elg department! Fortunately, though, I don't spend very long on these units as a rule!
Going back to EC, their new FC product makes it less likely I will use it. I know I am only one person, but we will see whether enough people agree with me over the enxt year or so!
Of course that's all they would worry about (as would any other company out to make money), but my point is that I'm not convinced that the trend will stick. So far I think it's been boosted by people thinking 'hmm new free catering might give it a go' and others seeing the £25 special offer for first class travel anywhere that ran earlier this year. Both of those factors I'm sure will have boosted numbers significantly for EC. But now that those have both passed it's the figures over the next 12 months that will be interesting because if revenue in first class and numbers drop compared to before the changes were made where do they go then? Admit they made a mistake? Carry on anyway? Or abandon catering all together (as was mooted by NXEC in it's end days)?
amcluesent
Member
- Joined
- 19 Dec 2010
- Messages
- 877
As it happens, I've recently flipped from being an FC season ticket holder on EC to buying STD AP. I now only do two days\week in London and that's irregular. Ticket costs have dropped from about £260\wk to £60\wk.
Doing PBO-KGX I always used the Lincoln service as EC are making that very cheap on AP.
Even though the FC upgrade is about £12, I've never taken it as I know the service of FC complementaries on HST stock is woeful compared to 225s.
So far, I've never had a problem getting a seat as the reservation system has been working. Obviously at KGX the Lincoln service is dead easy to spot, so you can position yourself at the doors of coach 'B' before it's called.
If I was doing London five days\week I'd go back to FC on a season for the complete flexibility (inc. any route to Stansted for weekend trips), use of the KGX lounge, certainly of a seat up to the moment of departure (maybe not the Friday 17:30 to Edinburgh), quiet and comfort plus the complementaries EC are promising inc. a respectful service to PBO pax in the mornings.
Doing PBO-KGX I always used the Lincoln service as EC are making that very cheap on AP.
Even though the FC upgrade is about £12, I've never taken it as I know the service of FC complementaries on HST stock is woeful compared to 225s.
So far, I've never had a problem getting a seat as the reservation system has been working. Obviously at KGX the Lincoln service is dead easy to spot, so you can position yourself at the doors of coach 'B' before it's called.
If I was doing London five days\week I'd go back to FC on a season for the complete flexibility (inc. any route to Stansted for weekend trips), use of the KGX lounge, certainly of a seat up to the moment of departure (maybe not the Friday 17:30 to Edinburgh), quiet and comfort plus the complementaries EC are promising inc. a respectful service to PBO pax in the mornings.
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Butts
Veteran Member
Why don't Virgin take the opportunity to "blow East Coast out of the water" (or even off the rails) now EC have reduced their offering to such a pitiful level compared with what it once was.
With their resources the implementation of a "Wrexham and Shropshire" type cuisine could launch a killer blow to the East Coast Route and steal all the passengers to the WCML.
Just a thought
With their resources the implementation of a "Wrexham and Shropshire" type cuisine could launch a killer blow to the East Coast Route and steal all the passengers to the WCML.
Just a thought
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
Because that's not the aim.
(Yes, I'm an angry "I want the restaurant back" traveller too, but . . . . )
The Company has so many train sets and so many paths and by simple arithmetic, only so many seats.
Standard gets rammed full at times, whilst First is largely empty.
They can't get more trains, more paths, more coaches. But they can play with Advertising campaigns, the Quotas of Advances, the time restrictions of Off-Peaks and the 'offering' in First Class : all with the single purpose of moving some Standard pax into those empty First seats.
I can't tell you how often I travel as one of about 6 passengers in a First Class EC coach.
That is what they are concerned with.
Not what we think about the 'pitiful level' of their offering; in fact, many of the front line staff in Catering will agree with you, but their view is of no more interest to the Senior Management & Directors than yours or mine.
How else can they move pax from Standard to First?
Move ten and loose one angry 'regular' and that makes nine gains.
Butts
Veteran Member
Was it a massive "cock up" when GNER were replaced by NE - would this have happened on their watch ?
Had Virgin got the Franchise would it have been a fascmile of West Coast ?