London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

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delicious evening meals (by the sounds of it they are anything but delicious, and the choices i have seen have been quite poor). All this to the detriment of the near constant at seat supply of tea and biscuits.

I would not say the evening meals don't taste good, they are not as good as what on offer in the restuarant (and included in the ticket price for many).

Many of my fears have proved to be correct, such as order upon departure point of service, waiting until York could result in no food.

In summary from personal experience.
Breakfast - Does what it says on the tin, not as good as pre- May 22nd in terms of quality but quality always suffers as volume increases. I AP ticket holder will be happy, someone who paid for Breakfast before will notice the difference in quality.

All Day - Absolute shambles, needs sorting very quickly, poor choice, never personally seen a hot meal, if you don't know what is on offer you don't get told, menus often missing etc. Definate downgrade from the at seat offering.

Evening (Northbound) - Again no way near as good as the previous offering if you went to the restuarant so a downgrade to people who did have 3 course meals included in their tickets. But people who choose not to go to the restuarant will again be happy, but people who used the restuarant won't be. London - Leeds route big winner here as most London - Newcastle & Edinburgh services had a restuarant.

Evening (Southbound) - as per all day.

The free drinks are OK but remember you are gready if you want more than one, which considering that the stella is in small cans you need 2 anyway to be equal to what you previously bought!
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Virgin is (currently) KING of complimentary catering. Their Breakfast and Evening Meal service on Pendolinos is excellent!

Well I will be making a return to Virgin to compare, now that east coasts service has gone down so badly. From experiece Breakfast and the evening meal were very good (as long as they didn't run out of food in the evening). Good selection and good quality. Here comes the BUT - this only applies to the pendo's. I understand the Voyagers have improved, but I gave up on them a long time ago, the difference in fare was too high to justify a microwaved bacon roll when the morning trains from Edinburgh - Birmingham were fairly empty until Preston and you have lots of space in the coach where the shop is (can't remember if that is B or D)

 

[All Line Rover]

Well I will be making a return to Virgin to compare, now that east coasts service has gone down so badly. From experiece Breakfast and the evening meal were very good (as long as they didn't run out of food in the evening). Good selection and good quality. Here comes the BUT - this only applies to the pendo's. I understand the Voyagers have improved, but I gave up on them a long time ago, the difference in fare was too high to justify a microwaved bacon roll when the morning trains from Edinburgh - Birmingham were fairly empty until Preston and you have lots of space in the coach where the shop is (can't remember if that is B or D)

I agree that the Super Voyager offering is far inferior to the Pendolino offering. Breakfast isn't bad, as it actually tastes good! But the Evening Meal is just a microwaved cottage pie, which you could pick up from Tesco for £3.

Then again, the Super Voyagers only operate between London and Chester/North Wales (and hopefully will be replaced by Pendolinos in the future). You can't compare Voyagers to HST's. Virgin do very well with what they've got - Virgin Voyagers are much better than XC Voyagers!

 

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I agree that the Super Voyager offering is far inferior to the Pendolino offering. Breakfast isn't bad, as it actually tastes good! But the Evening Meal is just a microwaved cottage pie, which you could pick up from Tesco for £3.

Then again, the Super Voyagers only operate between London and Chester/North Wales (and hopefully will be replaced by Pendolinos in the future). You can't compare Voyagers to HST's. Virgin do very well with what they've got - Virgin Voyagers are much better than XC Voyagers!

I know we are going off topic a little but what about Birmingham - Scotland. When I gave up on it I used the 0652 Edinburgh - Birmingham which at that point you needed to walk to the shop to get you microwaved bacon roll and drink. It was a big own goal for Virgin as you passed through the empty coach on the way to the shop and thought - As I need to walk to get this anyway I can halve the price of my ticket, have shorter to walk and get all the other perks of 1st in this coach (which at the time still accessed the wi-fi for free). Hopefully the route will see Pendo's as well, but the 0652 is not really busy enough to be honest to be a Pendo.

 

[All Line Rover]

I know we are going off topic a little but what about Birmingham - Scotland. When I gave up on it I used the 0652 Edinburgh - Birmingham which at that point you needed to walk to the shop to get you microwaved bacon roll and drink. It was a big own goal for Virgin as you passed through the empty coach on the way to the shop and thought - As I need to walk to get this anyway I can halve the price of my ticket, have shorter to walk and get all the other perks of 1st in this coach (which at the time still accessed the wi-fi for free). Hopefully the route will see Pendo's as well, but the 0652 is not really busy enough to be honest to be a Pendo.

When was that?

They've scrapped the bacon rolls now!

 

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When was that?

They've scrapped the bacon rolls now!

Probably about 14 months ago, used to be doing it about every 2 weeks, but haven't looked back to be honest. If they have improved the offering I may re-investigate the Voyagers again.

 

[All Line Rover]

Probably about 14 months ago, used to be doing it about every 2 weeks, but haven't looked back to be honest. If they have improved the offering I may re-investigate the Voyagers again.

Breakfast is now a mini "Full English" or a mini "Smoked Salmon and Scrambled Eggs." They're not as good as the Pendolino offering - they can't be - but they still taste nice.

Evening Meals still don't exist between Birmingham and Scotland, but you're not missing much!

 

[maddeningcrowds]

Yes I am getting picky now

On the not-very-often occasions I have paid for 1st it is precisely because my travel arrangements/companions/the occasion means I want to be picky. That's the whole point, isn't it? You pay more and you expect more.

 

[Darandio]

Honestly cannot believe some of the moaning going on right now.. what is the point?! Do you really think sitting moaning about it on here and comparing it to the oh-mighty king of catering Virgin is going to do anything what so ever? It isn't. Moaning at silentone about the website is hardly going to do anything either. You know where to send your complaints - fire off your anger there and you're far more likely to get somewhere.

As for suggestions of a more simple menu (E.g. Burgers, Fish & Chips, Bangers & Mash etc.) I have to agree that would be my personal preference too.. but it's the first summer menu - feedback will be gained and menu's will be adjusted accordingly..

I honestly thought the banner at the top said RailUKforums, maybe I was mistaken?

Or you could not take part if people having a discussion affects you so much?

 

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Well I have the full set now, an afternoon tea service. This time the 1600 London - Aberdeen.

The offer is one or two sandwiches, don't know if they will be back later for the scone, but even if they are that is not exactly much to get you to Edinburgh (or even Aberdeen if you are going that far) But hey it is free so us stupid customer need our heads examining if we thing that the offer is worse than the old at seat offer! No mention of the beetroot risotto does it exist?

So basically if you are going on a train which serves breakfast or the evening meal it may be worthwhile, others forget it.

The staff also seem very low on morale on both the trains I am on today, not surprising when passengers are unhappy and the company line is it is better than a buscuit. You can always go to the buffet. We pay first class fares give us back first class, time for another letter to East Coast for them to ignore!

 

[StrollerEd]

just booked my travel to London

I needed to get to a 10.30 meeting: could leave at 05.40am train to KX [used to enjoy the breakfast] or get the 07.45am plane to LCY.

have opted for the plane

 

[All Line Rover]

just booked my travel to London

I needed to get to a 10.30 meeting: could leave at 05.40am train to KX [used to enjoy the breakfast] or get the 07.45am plane to LCY.

have opted for the plane

What's so bad about the new breakfast? It looks very good to me.

Also how do the prices compare for the train/plane, and at what time does the plane arrive into London? Don't you also need to factor in the journey from Edinburgh City Centre to Edinburgh Airport, and the time it takes to board the plane?

 

[Failed Unit]

What's so bad about the new breakfast? It looks very good to me.

Also how do the prices compare for the train/plane, and at what time does the plane arrive into London? Don't you also need to factor in the journey from Edinburgh City Centre to Edinburgh Airport, and the time it takes to board the plane?

From my personal point of view I am also seriously considering the plane now. 2 small sandwiches (which is all we have being offered nearly 2 hours into the journey) is not good enough. We have debated this to death and even someone pro-rail like me admits that there is very little in terms of time or price to choose if you book in advance (although red-eyes the planes hit your wallet). But yes you need to arrive at the airport about 1 hour before the flight, which you can use to get a reasonable meal, something that you used to get on the train until the 22nd May.

As for the breakfast, it is OK, but no way near the qaulity of Virgin or the old offering.

I will see what is offered after York and then make the trip to the buffer. I am really ****ed off with this now, I can see why passengers are getting snappy with the staff but I have to keep remembering it is not them that decided to do this. I will politly ask when they come back if they feel two sandwiches is acceptable for a train heading to Aberdeen - but will not be impressed if I get told I should be greatful that I am not getting a biscuit. I would love to buy something from the at seat menu right now, and if I must queue to go to the buffet I might as well go standard - there wi-fi is too slow which is the other main selling point of first!

 

[maddeningcrowds]

there wi-fi is too slow which is the other main selling point of first!

With PAYG dongle it costs me £2 a day, much less than the wifi in standard. The reception goes up and down a bit though, keeps dropping the connection. Oh wait, that happens with the wifi too!

 

[ApAp]

I will see what is offered after York and then make the trip to the buffer. I am really ****ed off with this now, I can see why passengers are getting snappy with the staff but I have to keep remembering it is not them that decided to do this. I will politly ask when they come back if they feel two sandwiches is acceptable for a train heading to Aberdeen - but will not be impressed if I get told I should be greatful that I am not getting a biscuit. I would love to buy something from the at seat menu right now, and if I must queue to go to the buffet I might as well go standard - there wi-fi is too slow which is the other main selling point of first!

Have you asked about hot food to see their reply? Personally I'm going to see what happens to East Coast Rewards before I make a final decision, but for me now the main benefit of first class is the individual seats.

Oh yeah, I was also someone who voted with his wallet against free food. Preferring GNER/(NX)EC to Virgin trains on the Glasgow runs despite the obvious speed advantage of using the west coast. It was always good to have a quality choice and I've never been accused of being greedy when paying for my own food/drinks.

 

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Have you asked about hot food to see their reply? Personally I'm going to see what happens to East Coast Rewards before I make a final decision, but for me now the main benefit of first class is the individual seats.

They may get some on at Newcastle! The Scone's were onboard as well but they ran out. I really feel sorry for the crew, they are really getting a hard time from the passengers who feel that this is not good enough.

As it is not that well shown on the website here is the email address to say that 2 sandwiches and a piece of fruit cake is not good enough for a service going from London - Aberdeen!

[email protected]

The other problem they may have is people will now wait for the 1700 instead of use the 1630, which will result in overcrowding of the 1700 in first class as it is only a HST (although it was a mk4 last Thursday when I used it) I certainly if I am using the train will wait until it. Unless the trains are very busy and airline seat in Standard will do the job, time to investigate the buffet. I wish east cost would survey people on the trains directly the message from this one is strong, we would rather pay to get something decent rather than need to walk to the buffet.

 

[junglejames]

From my personal point of view I am also seriously considering the plane now. 2 small sandwiches (which is all we have being offered nearly 2 hours into the journey) is not good enough. We have debated this to death and even someone pro-rail like me admits that there is very little in terms of time or price to choose if you book in advance (although red-eyes the planes hit your wallet). But yes you need to arrive at the airport about 1 hour before the flight, which you can use to get a reasonable meal, something that you used to get on the train until the 22nd May.

As for the breakfast, it is OK, but no way near the qaulity of Virgin or the old offering.

I will see what is offered after York and then make the trip to the buffer. I am really ****ed off with this now, I can see why passengers are getting snappy with the staff but I have to keep remembering it is not them that decided to do this. I will politly ask when they come back if they feel two sandwiches is acceptable for a train heading to Aberdeen - but will not be impressed if I get told I should be greatful that I am not getting a biscuit. I would love to buy something from the at seat menu right now, and if I must queue to go to the buffet I might as well go standard - there wi-fi is too slow which is the other main selling point of first!

Doesnt the 1600 change to the evening meal offering later on into the journey?
Isnt that what Virgin do?
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I agree that the Super Voyager offering is far inferior to the Pendolino offering. Breakfast isn't bad, as it actually tastes good! But the Evening Meal is just a microwaved cottage pie, which you could pick up from Tesco for £3.

Then again, the Super Voyagers only operate between London and Chester/North Wales (and hopefully will be replaced by Pendolinos in the future). You can't compare Voyagers to HST's. Virgin do very well with what they've got - Virgin Voyagers are much better than XC Voyagers!

Going off topic, but yes you can compare voyagers to HSTs, because they were brought in to replace HSTs. Also, its no good saying Virgin do well with what they have got. They gave themselves what they have got. They decided to get rid of the HSTs and bring in voyagers.

 

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Nope, the afternoon tea offer is all that is given throughout - so just 2 sandwiches and some cake

 

[ainsworth74]

What's so bad about the new breakfast? It looks very good to me.

Really? The old breakfast was much better it included black pudding, beans as well as allowing you to choose how you had your egg. Now the offer is okay, but certainly not very good. Very good is what it used to be if a little pricey I think £10 would have been a bit better rather than £12 that is was but now it's free so no reason to complain :roll:

 

[philjo]

The adverts at Waverley station, "From a proper breakfast to a delicious evening meal on longer journeys. Definately right about the longer Northbound journeys, but I know they have a lack of space on the averts but they don't mention the totally unsuitable all-day offering.

I also remember the days when first class used to include a newspaper, not today it doesn't. Just butter with your toast, not jam, marmilade etc any more either. Yes I am getting picky now - but I need to be when you are taking on a company that only hears what it wants to.

You cannot have breakfast without marmalade!
Yes, I remember being given free evening standard on boarding 1st class at Leeds with GNER (when the paper was sold rather than free as now)

 

[Skimble19]

I very happily have breakfast without marmalade!

Nope, the afternoon tea offer is all that is given throughout - so just 2 sandwiches and some cake

That I will agree is unacceptable for journeys that long.. perhaps the all-day offer could include meals on longer services? Can imagine that being a bit of a PITA to implement though, so perhaps just adding a few simple meals (burgers and chips etc.) to the all-day offer would be better..

 

[ainsworth74]

That I will agree is unacceptable for journeys that long.. perhaps the all-day offer could include meals on longer services?

It does technically, first week it was vegetable biyriani and now some sort of beetroot risotto I think. Problem's so far being 1) Doesn't appear to be well advertised so no-one knows they can order it, 2) It's vegitable based now I could be wrong but I think most people like to have some sort of meat in a meal (especially a main meal as this would be on all southbound trains at dinner time) and 3) lack of choice there is one meal if you don't like it tough.

Personally I would like to see a minimum of two hot meal options on the all day service with one being vegetarian suitable and one not (perhaps a burger or something like you suggest). Whilst the evening meal service would include 3-4 options and be extended to include some services from Edinburgh.

 

[williamn]

Marmalade is a pretty standard breakfast item. Not offering it just looks like penny pinching which is not what a high-end 1st class experience should be about. Virgin have it!

 

[StrollerEd]

What's so bad about the new breakfast? It looks very good to me.

Also how do the prices compare for the train/plane, and at what time does the plane arrive into London? Don't you also need to factor in the journey from Edinburgh City Centre to Edinburgh Airport, and the time it takes to board the plane?

Good questions. I think the cost paid by my employer is a bit more on the plane this time (but not always), although the door-to-door is much less - that is I leave the house about 6.20am and get to my meeting before 10am (rather than leave about 5.20am and get to my meeting about 10.20am). The hour extra in bed is something I used to trade for the simplicity, peace and comfort of a train ride with the delight of scrambled egg and salmon with a slice of black pudding on the side (as the restaurant staff were obliging).

I would like to continue to be a customer but in the absence of any reponse to my emails and phone call after 10 days perhaps this is the way I signal my dissatisfaction with this catering policy that both removes the peace and quiet and the quality breakfast.
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just realised: my plane is 07.45, so boarding at 07.15, so with pre-printed boarding card I might even risk leaving the house at 06.50, so that's even longer in bed.

If I go any earlier then I might even enjoy a good breakfast while I wait to board the plane.

Wish it were otherwise.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Marginally OT but when does bidding for east coast start? thinking about this last nite and to me it could go one of 2 ways or maybe even 3. If ariva/DB get it then those complaining about the new offer wil be satisfied as it will again be changed, but this change wil be to a regional rail style catering offer with no buffets or kitchens and the only difference between first and standard being that firsts coffee is free. If first take over then the offfer is likely to resemble what great western currently provide incl travveling sheff on some runs and maybe even an evening restaurant. if virgin get the keys then i suspect we will see a v similar offering to west coast but I would hope that a few more services would offer a hot evening meal esp southbound.

Its all to play for in my opinion

 

[YorkshireRider]

You cannot have breakfast without marmalade!
Yes, I remember being given free evening standard on boarding 1st class at Leeds with GNER (when the paper was sold rather than free as now)

Marmalade is offered on all trains before 11am, if not maybe they ran out, as for an evening local rag thats so crap they had to start giving it away.

Agreed that a couple of sandwiches and a scone (even if they had it) is not enough on the 1600, however it should have moved to the evening offer by York but even then the only hot option would be beetroot risotto, still not good enough. Im sure they will review the evening and all day offer when they get too much negative feedback. The breakfast offer stills seems pretty good, going on virgins website im not seeing any great difference.

There are still massive suppier issues which needs to be adressed, for the first few weeks of the offer the idea was to over supply trains, thats clearly not happened. Managers need to be on board more, making sure there is consistancy in the offer, eg. 4 sandwiches should be offered, not 2.

 

[All Line Rover]

Really? The old breakfast was much better it included black pudding, beans as well as allowing you to choose how you had your egg. Now the offer is okay, but certainly not very good. Very good is what it used to be if a little pricey I think £10 would have been a bit better rather than £12 that is was but now it's free so no reason to complain :roll:

I think people are being a bit finicky about the breakfast. After all, FC ticket prices have remained almost identical, and the price of a still decent breakfast has down from £12 to 0p. Not everyone likes black pudding (such as me, because of what it's made of), and baked beans can be messy - which isn't too good for business travellers in suits!

Considering the breakfast isn't costing you anything, I think the criticisms are a bit harsh. My only criticism is that they should introduce Smoked Salmon and Scrambled Eggs to give an alternative to people who don't like the Full English Breakfast.

 

[StrollerEd]

Considering the breakfast isn't costing you anything, I think the criticisms are a bit harsh. My only criticism is that they should introduce Smoked Salmon and Scrambled Eggs to give an alternative to people who don't like the Full English Breakfast.

This goes to the point. An alternative for those who want more/better than can be economically provided for free to all.

The new policy engenders dissatisfaction from all quarters - even you have criticism.

So, let them eat cake for free, and restore the restuarant car for those who want to buy Smoked Salmon and Scrambled Eggs - with option of Black Pudding on the side

 

[All Line Rover]

This goes to the point. An alternative for those who want more/better than can be economically provided for free to all.

The new policy engenders dissatisfaction from all quarters - even you have criticism.

So, let them eat cake for free, and restore the restuarant car for those who want to buy Smoked Salmon and Scrambled Eggs - with option of Black Pudding on the side

Personally, I prefer breakfast to be included in the price of my ticket when travelling First Class on an InterCity service, rather than having to pay extra on top. If I have to pay extra, I wonder why I didn't just travel Standard Class and have breakfast elsewhere! They should introduce Smoked Salmon and Scrambled Eggs because - a. Virgin do it, b. Not everyone likes a Full English so having an alternative is nice, c. It's very easy to prepare.

 

[Failed Unit]

Considering the breakfast isn't costing you anything, I think the criticisms are a bit harsh. My only criticism is that they should introduce Smoked Salmon and Scrambled Eggs to give an alternative to people who don't like the Full English Breakfast.

With respect that is what is annoying about east coast attitude, it is free so you have lost your right to complain, perhaps people didn't mind paying for quality. You should also remember that some people did buy it with the food vouchers included in thier tickets.

Hopefully East Coast will also consider starting dinner at Newcastle for the 1500 and York for the 1530, 1600 and 1630 services and offer it on some Southbound services. As I said on an early post you arrive at Kings Cross at 1615 with on open anytime ticket, who in thier right mind will use the 1630 for Newcastle and Edinburgh? You are going to get a very full HST with 2.5 first class coaches and a very empty mk4 with 3 first class coaches as people wait for the 1700 to get something to eat. Something I have pointed out in my letter to east coast.

Don't get me wrong the breakfast offer all is very good, it will get better in quality over the weeks as the crews get used to cooking these greater volumes, the evening meal is OK - not as good as we are used to but hey if this is how it is all they could really improve here is the number of options. It is the all day offer that is totally unsuitable and the fact it doesn't reflect the lengths of the journey times. Even the 1200 London - Inverness should have dinner from Edinburgh. What I don't get is what are the chefs doing and how are they saving money? If they never have the hot option on board are all the chefs just sat with thier feet up.

One thing that is a bit hard on both parties is you need to ask for everything, but you are not exactly sure what you should ask for and when. In the afternoon tea offer along came the trolley and offer the sandwiches (but not the scone), people just took the sandwich thinking they would return with the scone - they didn't you needed to ask for both at the same time. Likewise at breakfast you don't get offered jam or marmalade with your toast you need ask. In both of these cases I suspect this is to try and make the supplies last as from experience they do run out very quickly!
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Personally, I prefer breakfast to be included in the price of my ticket when travelling First Class on an InterCity service, rather than having to pay extra on top. If I have to pay extra, I wonder why I didn't just travel Standard Class and have breakfast elsewhere! They should introduce Smoked Salmon and Scrambled Eggs because - a. Virgin do it, b. Not everyone likes a Full English so having an alternative is nice, c. It's very easy to prepare.

That is the choice you make, I have done that with Virgin on the super voyagers {although I understand the offer has changed}. I personally factor it in if I pay £50 for an AP ticket I am not too bothered if it doesn't have anything included I think well breakfast is £12 so the cost of the journey is really £62. Otherwise I will go for standard and but elsewhere. I often used to look at the combos of tickets and the evening meal so if it was 2x APs = £160 but the Scottish Executive was £200 I would often go for the £200 for the flexibity and the knowledge the evening meal was included.

 

[All Line Rover]

That is the choice you make, I have done that with Virgin on the super voyagers {although I understand the offer has changed}.

Don't - just DON'T - base your opinions on the Super Voyagers! The offer has changed, but is still far inferior to the Pendolinos. Base your opinions on "complimentary" breakfasts on the Pendolinos!