London Northwestern Class 730s

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by KX03HZY, 14 Oct 2018.

  1. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    Bit late, but if the some of the 730s are 2x3 seating then why replace the 350/2s as i thought the 2x3 seating was the reason why LNR are throwing out those trains? Like the 170s which dont have end gangways?
     
  2. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    No, the reason for getting rid is that the owner of the 350/2s charge too much for them. I guess their bluff was called and they lost.

    Had they been the same price as the /1 and /3 I doubt they would be going anywhere.
     
  3. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    The problem is probably the cost of financing them when they were ordered, as they were ordered around the time of the financial crash, rather than the simplistic “the owner charges too much”. Lenders went very risk averse at that point which would have translated into higher costs for the owner.
     
  4. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I'm sure there was a reason, but from the TOC's point of view that is irrelevant - if brand-new units are cheaper than used ones who wouldn't buy new?
     
  5. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Agreed. Worth noting that Porterbrook and Angel have manage to refinance some of their more expensive debt over the last 18 months or so but there is still some expensive debt lurking.
     
  6. supervc-10

    supervc-10 Member

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    I can't help thinking though that making a smaller loss on leasing out the 350/2s is still better than making a total loss with them sitting in storage though. Angel and Porterbrook will still be having to pay back their debts, whether the trains are leased out or not. Getting some money back is better than none!
     
  7. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Quite, and this is why LNR called their bluff - but of course they lost that call and will now need to find something to do with what are quite decent EMUs. Drop the price and they could have a role allowing Northern 319s to be scrapped, for instance.

    For LNR that is a bit of a shame, though, as an all-Desiro fleet (by bringing in 360s instead of buying new, possibly modifying them to add gangways) would have had big benefits.
     
  8. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    The GA 360's apparently have an older cab that doesn't allow for it to be changed easily unlike all the future Desiro's.
     
  9. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Perhaps not *easily* - but they did manage to rebuild the Junipers as faux-Desiros!
     
  10. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    I think the GA 360 cab has to be hacked off, anyone in the know wish to divulge?
     
  11. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

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    It's quite surprising really that the 350/2s may not have a home (yet). Greater Anglia possibly could have used 350s as an alternative to Flirts on the Norwich to Liverpool Street services if the interior was refurbed which I'm sure wouldn't be unrealistic. They offer 110mph which is all the Anglia mainline requires at present and have a proven track record of reliability. Its not like the Anglia Flirts even require end coach vestibules, as the Flirt door will be on the middle of the coach. Seems a shame re the 350s not yet having a home really.
     
  12. supervc-10

    supervc-10 Member

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    Absolutely- and it's totally the right call for LNR to have made. Having said that... I wouldn't mind them up here in Manchester!
     
  13. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I doubt anyone would mind them, really, they are very good kit, highly reliable and very popular with those of us on the south WCML - even if we might prefer a /1 or /3! :)
     
  14. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    And they are even more faster than before
     
  15. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    Problem is, insider sources say LNR dont know when the 350/2s will be returned since their is no update on the status of the new 730s. TOCs cant really take trains that aren’t definitely not needed by the operator
     
  16. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Ultimately the ROSCO will have a lease end date in their contract with the TOC. If another TOC offers to lease them from that end date for (say) five years, then the ROSCO will take that offer. If their replacements are not available, and the new TOC declines to agree a deferred transfer, then it’s tough - the trains have to transfer whether replacements are available or not.
     
  17. Chiltern006

    Chiltern006 Member

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    Will 4 car 730s run on the Abbey Line or will that be 350s??
     
  18. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    There won't be any 4 car 730s, so I guess a 350.
     
  19. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    And the 45x 730s equivalent to 60x 20m 4 car EMUs...
     
  20. jw

    jw Member

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  21. class387

    class387 Established Member

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  22. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Wow. Fabric-faced Class 800 Standard seats for First Class? Are they mad? (At least ScotRail have fitted them 2+1 with double armrests and leather, but they are still rubbish).

    I repeat my call - fit 2+1 and keep the present long distance fares and I will use 1st every time. I will not pay a First Class fare for 2+2 seating ever. The appeal for me is the single wide seat, without it it has no appeal at all.
     
  23. Mollman

    Mollman Member

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  24. HLE

    HLE Established Member

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    8 172's and 3 230's. Had me thinking too.
    Wonder if they're retaining the 153's after all
     

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