London to Stansted (via Cambridge)

[Thewanderer]

Hi all,

This coming Sunday I need to get from London to Stansted, however due to EW it is a bus transfer. Now I don't fancy getting a bus and I see I could travel Kings Cross - Cambridge (change) - Stansted by train.

I would assume a London Terminals - Stansted single ticket is not valid to travel via Cambridge? Can anyone confirm this? Going on the assumption that it isn't I would need a split ticket (@ Cambridge?).

Would would the fare be for this trip? 1 Adult and 1 Adult Priv.

Many thanks Guys for your help.

The Wanderer.

 

[John @ home]

I would assume a London Terminals - Stansted single ticket is not valid to travel via Cambridge?

That's right, it's not valid.

Would would the fare be for this trip? 1 Adult and 1 Adult Priv.

Adult
For the Adult, it's actually cheaper via Cambridge!
London - Stansted Airport: Standard Anytime Day Single £22.50
London - Cambridge: Standard Off-Peak Day Return route Any Permitted £22.20 Validity code B1.

Use the outward portion Kings X - Cambridge and the return portion Cambridge - Stansted Airport.

Priv holder
For the Priv holder, I suggest taking a Kings X - Cambridge train which calls at Stevenage.
London - Stevenage: Standard PRIV Anytime Day Single £3.20
Stevenage - Stansted Airport: Standard PRIV Anytime Day Single route Not London £5.05
Total £8.25

 

[Thewanderer]

Thanks John, that is a big help, especially the Adult fare.

I would like to get the xx15 ex KX which is non stop to Cambridge. Therefore what would the priv fare be in that case?

 

[amcluesent]

Just be mindful that the XC train doing the Cambridge-Stansted link gets cancelled annoyingly frequently on a Sunday.

 

[LexyBoy]

There's always the NXEA service departing at XX32 (change Bishops Stortford). Always wise to factor in potential problems if travelling to an airport though!

For the priv fares I make it:

Kings X - Cambridge SDS £5.30 PRIV
Cambridge - Stansted Airport SDS £2.85
Total £8.15

(I may be wrong though as I'm sure John@Home would have suggested this in the first place as it's cheaper than splitting at Stevenage!)

 

[bb21]

There's always the NXEA service departing at XX32 (change Bishops Stortford). Always wise to factor in potential problems if travelling to an airport though!

For the priv fares I make it:

Kings X - Cambridge SDS £5.30 PRIV
Cambridge - Stansted Airport SDS £2.85
Total £8.15

(I may be wrong though as I'm sure John@Home would have suggested this in the first place as it's cheaper than splitting at Stevenage!)

This appears correct. No need to doubt yourself.

 

[David Goddard]

There's always the NXEA service departing at XX32 (change Bishops Stortford). Always wise to factor in potential problems if travelling to an airport though!

For the priv fares I make it:

Kings X - Cambridge SDS £5.30 PRIV
Cambridge - Stansted Airport SDS £2.85
Total £8.15

(I may be wrong though as I'm sure John@Home would have suggested this in the first place as it's cheaper than splitting at Stevenage!)

Fine for the ticket with destination of Stansted Airport, but if using the return portion of a London-Cambridge ticket then once at Bishops Stortford you will not be able to use it to reach the airport as it is back away from London again

 

[Paul Kelly]

Good point - the usual easements don't apply here as the ticket does not have a destination of Stansted Airport. You might need to change at Stansted Mountfitchet instead and the take advantage of doubling back being allowed within Stansted routeing group, I think.

 

[jopsuk]

it isn't "doubling back" if you don't pass through the same station twice I thought?
Anyway, worth noting that there's a very high chance of the XC service departing from the new platforms 7 or 8, whilst the FCC service will almost certainly use 1 or 4- more likely 4 though, which is handier for the bridge.

 

[Thewanderer]

Good point - the usual easements don't apply here as the ticket does not have a destination of Stansted Airport. You might need to change at Stansted Mountfitchet instead and the take advantage of doubling back being allowed within Stansted routeing group, I think.

Guys,

Thanks for all the info. Very interesting. Surely if the XC service was cancelled on that hour (and that's what I intend getting) then as the next available service was via bishops stortford that would be allowed. Blag time I think

The Wanderer

 

[jopsuk]

on the blagging- I'd guess there's a lower chance of actually being checked between Stortford and the airport? After all, Stortford is a barriered station, and it's only a few minutes.

 

[34D]

on the blagging- I'd guess there's a lower chance of actually being checked between Stortford and the airport? After all, Stortford is a barriered station, and it's only a few minutes.

If a train was cancelled at cambridge, I would want to get my ticket stamped. Stansted is a legitimate break of journey point, but travelling north on a cambridge-london ticket is not legitimate.....

 

[David Goddard]

Interessting this, because you havent always been able to travel via Stansted. I remember (some years ago) having a ticket from Ely to London that was marked "Not Stansted Apt" in the route space.

 

[yorkie]

Interessting this, because you havent always been able to travel via Stansted. I remember (some years ago) having a ticket from Ely to London that was marked "Not Stansted Apt" in the route space.

If there was a route "Not Stansted Apt" then that suggests that the "Any Permitted" was valid via Stansted Airport. Which is certainly the case today.

 

[John @ home]

1. Cost of PRIV SDS London - Stansted Airport via Cambridge
   

   For the priv fares I make it:
   
   Kings X - Cambridge SDS £5.30 PRIV
   Cambridge - Stansted Airport SDS £2.85
   Total £8.15

   Agreed, that is better than my suggestion.
   

   I may be wrong though as I'm sure John@Home would have suggested this in the first place

   A fallacy, I'm afraid!
   
   
2. Validity of CDR London - Cambridge to or via Stansted Ariport
   

   if using the return portion of a London-Cambridge ticket then once at Bishops Stortford you will not be able to use it to reach the airport as it is back away from London again

   Agreed. You would not normally be allowed to double back through Stansted Mountfitchet. But see below for disruption to travel.
   

   it isn't "doubling back" if you don't pass through the same station twice I thought?

   Cambridge to Stansted Airport via Bishops Stortford would pass through Stansted Mountfitchet more than once.
   

   Surely if the XC service was cancelled on that hour (and that's what I intend getting) then as the next available service was via bishops stortford that would be allowed.

   It would be the next available service by a Permitted Route if holding a Cambridge - Stansted Airport ticket. The relevant Easement is:
   

   Easement 69
   
   The following groups of journeys to Stansted Airport via Cambridge may double back from Bishops Stortford:

   1. journeys from stations north of Cambridge
   2. journeys via Cambridge from Knebworth, Watton at Stone, Stevenage or Hitchin
   3. journeys from stations between Hitchin and Cambridge
   4. journeys from stations north of Hitchin
   5. journeys from Cambridge.

   This easement applies in both directions.
   
   http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/easements.pdf

   The holder of the Adult London - Cambridge CDR would at this point, be using the return leg and would be on a Cambridge - London journey (which they intend to end at an intermediate station in accordance with NRCoC Condition 16). There seems to me to be a risk that this journey would be deemed to be "to London", whereas Easement 69 applies to journeys "to Stansted Airport". Therefore Easement 69 may not help us in the case of cancellation of the XC Cambridge - Stansted Airport train.
   

   If a train was cancelled at Cambridge, I would want to get my ticket stamped.

   I agree that the way forward is to seek permission to travel via Bishops Stortford. Extracts from the Passenger's Charters of XC (whose train would have been cancelled) and NXEA (who are likely to be in a position to assist) may be helpful.
   

   CrossCountry Passenger’s Charter
   
   How we deal with delays
   We appreciate that a delay to your train is always frustrating, whether you are waiting at a station or already on board. Our staff are trained to identify and sort out any problems you experience as a result of a delay to your train. We will always do our best to let you know about any delays as they arise before you board the train.
   Even when delayed, the train will usually be the quickest way to get you to your destination. If, however, your train is cancelled and the next train doesn’t leave for more than two hours, we will provide other transport. Normally this transport will take you to the nearest available station where you can continue your journey. Either we or the station operator may choose to provide other transport to your destination. A number of our trains travel long distances and if it is not possible to get you to a destination which you have bought a ticket for by train (or by other transport), we will offer overnight accommodation.
   If you have a flight to catch from an airport near to a station served by CrossCountry trains, we will normally only consider providing alternative transport if you planned your rail journey to arrive at the airport station at least two hours before your latest flight check in time.
   http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/SiteImages/Assets/3/Passenger Charter Oct 2010.pdf
   
   NXEA Passenger’s Charter
   
   How we take care of you when things go wrong
   If the delay occurs after your train has started its journey, we will do our best to get you to your destination station by train, or to arrange alternative transport. If this is not possible, we will get you back to an appropriate station or may, depending on the circumstances, provide you with a hotel room and allow you to travel the next day at no extra charge. If the train you planned to catch is delayed or is cancelled, and as a result you decide not to travel, a full refund will be issued.
   If you miss a connection because our train is running late or is cancelled, we will help you re-plan your journey to keep the inconvenience to a minimum. If you miss a connection because of problems with our train, we will arrange alternative transport to get you to your final destination if:

   • the next connecting train is more than 60 minutes later than the one you should have caught, and
   • it will get you there quicker than waiting for the next train.

   http://www.nationalexpresseastangli...405512/NXEA Passengers Charter, July 2011.pdf

 

[jopsuk]

Cambridge to Stansted Airport via Bishops Stortford would pass through Stansted Mountfitchet more than once.

Yes, but the suggestion was getting a stopper to Mountfitchet from Cambridge and changing there to a a train to the airport- Indigo2 seemed to suggest that this was a "double back" and required an easement to be valid, when obviously that isn't the case (should fall comfortably within the 3 mile rule)

 

[John @ home]

the suggestion was getting a stopper to Mountfitchet from Cambridge and changing there to a a train to the airport

Ah, I didn't spot that.

 

[Paul Kelly]

My thinking was that you were allowed to break your journey (or end short) at any point along a permitted route. But a journey from Bishops Stortford to Stansted Airport does not form part of any permitted routes from Cambridge to London, so it is not permitted to break there.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm starting to think that the concept of doubling back makes better sense if you consider it as travelling along a station-to-station stretch of track more than once, rather than passing through a station. Or just entering the same station more than once. In this case are we saying that entering Stansted Mountfitchet from the north coming from Elsenham, then exiting it again on different train heading north, but going to Stansted Airport instead, and then coming back from Stansted Airport through Stansted Mountfitchet from north to south, is not "doubling back" because you only "pass through" Stansted Mountfitchet, in one side and out the other, once?

That is along the lines of what I was arguing in the Leighton Buzzard to Headstone Lane via Harrow & Wealdstone thread, but I'm starting to think that interpretation isn't so practical, and that it makes more sense for routeing guide purposes if any time you enter a station counts as passing through that station.

 

[John @ home]

In this case are we saying that entering Stansted Mountfitchet from the north coming from Elsenham, then exiting it again on different train heading north, but going to Stansted Airport instead, and then coming back from Stansted Airport through Stansted Mountfitchet from north to south, is not "doubling back" because you only "pass through" Stansted Mountfitchet, in one side and out the other, once?

No. I'm saying that doubling back between Stansted Mountfitchet and Stansted Airport is allowed because of the Group Stations rule: together they form Stansted Group.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Oh yes that's what I was saying too Perhaps jopsuk misinterpreted.

 

[jopsuk]

Quite possibly

 

[Thewanderer]

Hi all,

Thanks to everybody for all your help. The trip worked out all ok and much better than busing it. The XC Guard did give my travelling companion an odd look on production of a ticket to London.

The Wanderer.