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London Underground stock requests

Bigchris

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8 Mar 2017
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North Lincs
Unfortunately not but I'd also be very keen to know, along with 96049 which is the other one I've needed for ages. I can only assume inside the shed at Stratford as I've walked around the outside of the depot a fair few times and never seen either of them.
 
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littledude

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21 Nov 2011
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People’s Republic of South Yorkshire
Can anyone please confirm if Jubilee 96036 and 96121 are stored at Stratford? They’re my last 2 sets, and there have been no photos of them for a very long time on the network!

If so, are they visible? Walking along Abbey Road looks promising to pass along the ends of the stabling roads if that’s where they are
 

notverydeep

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9 Feb 2014
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Can anyone please confirm if Jubilee 96036 and 96121 are stored at Stratford? They’re my last 2 sets, and there have been no photos of them for a very long time on the network!

If so, are they visible? Walking along Abbey Road looks promising to pass along the ends of the stabling roads if that’s where they are
That is probably worth a look. They are listed as being on the third and fourth roads from the West Side. Nothing else is shown as being on those roads, so they are likely to be at the buffer stop end nearest to Abbey Road. But, that does assume the list is accurate…

They will be among the last to go though the current overhaul programme.
 

littledude

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That is probably worth a look. They are listed as being on the third and fourth roads from the West Side. Nothing else is shown as being on those roads, so they are likely to be at the buffer stop end nearest to Abbey Road. But, that does assume the list is accurate…

They will be among the last to go though the current overhaul programme.
Many thanks for that! Had a look and they are indeed sat against the buffers on 31 and 32 road. Great result!

In terms of other LUL ‘needs’, given up trying to get my Central line odds and sods, but I wonder if 21463 and 21487 are still stored at Upminster, does anyone know?
 

notverydeep

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Many thanks for that! Had a look and they are indeed sat against the buffers on 31 and 32 road. Great result!

In terms of other LUL ‘needs’, given up trying to get my Central line odds and sods, but I wonder if 21463 and 21487 are still stored at Upminster, does anyone know?
21463 is at Ealing Common Depot inside the shed, but yes 21487 is at Upminster Depot apparently. Both have been stopped since 2020. Neither look likely to be visible from publicly accessible locations I’m afraid.
 

TheEngineer

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20 Nov 2023
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60
Location
Milton keynes
Having followed intertube for a while Northern Line 51542 and 543 don't seem to be about. Does anybody have any idea where they might be and if they are visible anywhere. Many thanks in advance.
 

notverydeep

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Having followed intertube for a while Northern Line 51542 and 543 don't seem to be about. Does anybody have any idea where they might be and if they are visible anywhere. Many thanks in advance.
Northern line trains aren’t on normal stopped car lists, but looking at historic data, these haven’t run in normal service since 20 June 2023…
 

boiledbeans2

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15 Oct 2020
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UK
Would anyone have any info on the following Victoria Line sets? Not seen them allocated for quite some time:

11035 & 11089

Thanks in advance!

11035 has been out of use for a very long time, certainly the last couple of years. I'd like to know where it is as it's my last set. I haven't seen 11089 since about early Sep last year so that's another one that's looking like a long term out of use set too. Sorry that's not really any help but hopefully somebody can help with their exact locations.

I know your message was from some time ago, but if you'd like to see 11089, it's currently on 22 road at Northumberland Park. Note that it's powered up so may move anytime.

22 road should be visible from the extreme south end of Northumberland Park station. 22 road can be seen from a Greater Anglia train at 0:14s of this video:
 
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Bigchris

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S7 21463/464 back in public use:

 
Joined
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Would this be the right place to ask how London Underground vehicle numbering works? They seem to have only a number for each car (not for each unit) & I can't make out any patterns.
 

Dstock7080

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West London
Prior to the late-1930s Underground trains were formed of car-Stock, individual cars which could be swapped easily with an exact copy to create a train, with a driving cab at each end. Car numbers therefore changed very often within a train.
The late-1930s introduced unit-Stock which were semi-permanently coupled together that could be worked together as a small train and coupled with a companion to create a longer train. Car numbers then remained relatively unchanged within a train but the previous practice of not using ‘unit’ numbers was continued.
Car numbers have duplicated over the years but never in the same era. Eg. some S Stock duplicate numbers of former District Line R Stock.
 

Bigchris

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Would this be the right place to ask how London Underground vehicle numbering works? They seem to have only a number for each car (not for each unit) & I can't make out any patterns.
So, a very quick answer to your questions for current underground stock would be yes each car has an individual number, yes they do have set numbers, and yes there are set patterns. Luckily I had something I wrote for somewhere else a few years back so I hope the description below answers your question in enough detail. As a general rule for set numbers, they're normally on the end of each driving cab as you look at it, mostly on the front but the Piccadilly set numbers are on the side of the driving cab, not the front. Note that each line is different and the formations that you see running are normally made up by 2 individual sets being joined, or 4 sets in the case of the Central Line. I hope the following description makes sense, if not then feel free to get in touch and I'll help if I can :D

1972 Stock, Bakerloo Line
7-car formations, 1x 4-car set paired with 1x 3-car set. The 4-car sets are numbered in the 32xx series (3231-3267 + 3299) and the 3-car sets are numbered in the 35xx series (3531-3567). There is no particular pattern to pairing, no deliberate consecutive numbering, and the 32xx set should be at the south end.
Individual car numbers are formed in the following example set sequences:
Set 3231 is formed of 3231+4231+4331+3331
Set 3531 Is formed of 3531+4531+3431

1973 Stock, Piccadilly Line
6-car formations, 2x 3-car sets numbered in the 100-253 & 854-896 series. They run with 1x odd numbered set paired with 1x even numbered set. There is no particular pattern to pairing, no deliberate consecutive numbering, and you do not get pairs that contain 2x sets from the 8xx series. Sets 100-253 always run with the set number driving-car at the front but sets 854-896 are double-ended and can run either way so could have car 854 or 855 leading. Note that the pattern of the individual car numbering is different in the 8xx sets.
Individual car numbers are formed in the following example set sequence:
Set 100 is formed of 100+500+300
Set 200 is formed of 200+600+400
Set 854 is formed of 854+654+855
Set 896 is formed of 896+696+897

1992 Stock, Central Line
8-car formations, 4x 2-car sets in the 91xxx (91001-91349) and 93xxx (93002-93266 & 93402-93464) series (or also referred to as 92xxx series depending on who you ask). These are the most annoying set formations to monitor, made more difficult as only leading cars show up on the Intertube website, and formations seem to change more often than any other line. They run as 4x sets of 2, the outer 2 sets are always 91xxx as they are the driving cabs, and these are always odd numbered. The inner 2 sets are normally 2x 93xxx non-driving sets, and these are always even numbered. However, some sets are formed with a 91xxx driving set on the inside of the formation in place of the normal 93xxx non-driving set. For info, regardless of whether the set is a 91xxx or 93xxx, the second car of each set is always 92xxx with the same last 3 digits as the 91xxx or 93xxx that it is coupled with.
Individual car numbers are formed in the following example set sequence:
91001+92001, 93054+92054, 92176+93176, 92201+91201

1992 Stock, Waterloo & City Line

4-car formations, 2x 2-car sets, numbered in the 65501-65510 series. They run in consecutive numbered pairs, the odd number is always the lowest, and the odd number should be at the east end.
Individual car numbers are formed in the following example set sequence:
65501+67501, 67502+65502

1995 Stock, Northern Line

6-car formations, 2x 3-car sets numbered in the 51xxx series (51501-51686 & 51701-51726). They run with either 1x odd numbered set paired with 1x even numbered set (if both sets are from the 51501-51686 series), or for pairs that include one of the 517xx sets, they run with either both even numbered sets or both odd numbered sets. Most (but not all) of the pairs that don't include a 517xx set run in consecutive numbered pairs, but there is no obvious pattern to whether the odd or even number is the lowest in these sets that do run as consecutive pairs.
Individual car numbers are formed in the following example set sequence:
51501+52501+53501, 53701+52701+51701
51502
+52502+53502, 53503+52503+51503

1996 Stock, Jubilee Line

7-car formations, 1x 4-car set paired with 1x 3-car set. The 4-car sets are odd numbered
and the 3-car sets are even numbered, all in the 96xxx series (96001-96126). They do not run in consecutive numbered pairs and the odd number should be at the east end.
Individual car numbers are formed in the following example set sequence:
96001+96201+96601+96401, 96402+96202+96002

2009 Stock, Victoria Line

8-car formations, 2x 4-car sets, all numbered in the 11xxx series (11001-11094). They run in consecutive numbered pairs, the odd number is always the lowest, and the odd number should be at the south end.
Individual car numbers are formed in the following example set sequence:
11001+12001+13001+14001, 14002+13002+12002+11002

S7 Stock, Circle, District and Hammersmith & City Line

7-car formations, 1x 3-car set paired with 1x 4-car set, all numbered in the 21xxx series (21301-21568). They run in consecutive numbered pairs and the odd number is always the lowest.
Individual car numbers are formed in the following example set sequence:
21301+22301+24301, 24302+25302+22302+21302

S8 Stock, Metropolitan Line

8-car formations, 2x 4-car sets, all numbered in the 21xxx series (21001-21116). They run in consecutive numbered pairs and the odd number is always the lowest.
Individual car numbers are formed in the following example set sequence:
21001+22001+23001+24001, 24002+25002+22002+21002
 

Dstock7080

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Just to slightly correct the above excellent summary, S Stock are fixed 7-car or 8-car and cannot be divided except in heavy maintenance depots, unlike 2009 Stock which have automatic couplers between the units.
 

Bigchris

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Just to slightly correct the above excellent summary, S Stock are fixed 7-car or 8-car and cannot be divided except in heavy maintenance depots, unlike 2009 Stock which have automatic couplers between the units.
Yes, I should have worded that better, I've never seen S Stock sets split up even in depots :D
 

Mawkie

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17 Feb 2016
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Sets 100-253 always run with the set number driving-car at the front but sets 854-896 are double-ended and can run either way so could have car 854 or 855 leading.
With the caveat that on the 73 Stock an "A" end can only attach to a "D" end. The couplers don't allow for an A-A connection or a D-D.
 

Bigchris

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With the caveat that on the 73 Stock an "A" end can only attach to a "D" end. The couplers don't allow for an A-A connection or a D-D.
Yes indeed, hence they always run with an odd numbered driving cab at one end and an even numbered driving cab at the other end regardless of what the 2 individual set numbers are.
 

bluegoblin7

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141-541-341
234-634-434

The vast majority of Tube stock are fixed formation half (/quarter) units, and there’s plenty of published sources to find this information yourself. Indeed, the formula has been posted five posts before yours.
 
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pokemonsuper9

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1992 Stock, Central Line
8-car formations, 4x 2-car sets in the 91xxx (91001-91349) and 93xxx (93002-93266 & 93402-93464) series (or also referred to as 92xxx series depending on who you ask). These are the most annoying set formations to monitor, made more difficult as only leading cars show up on the Intertube website, and formations seem to change more often than any other line. They run as 4x sets of 2, the outer 2 sets are always 91xxx as they are the driving cabs, and these are always odd numbered. The inner 2 sets are normally 2x 93xxx non-driving sets, and these are always even numbered. However, some sets are formed with a 91xxx driving set on the inside of the formation in place of the normal 93xxx non-driving set. For info, regardless of whether the set is a 91xxx or 93xxx, the second car of each set is always 92xxx with the same last 3 digits as the 91xxx or 93xxx that it is coupled with.
Individual car numbers are formed in the following example set sequence:
91001+92001, 93054+92054, 92176+93176, 92201+91201
Does that mean the 92xxx numbers are duplicated between 92002 and 92266?
That sounds like it could be confusing.
 

bluegoblin7

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No? All numbers are unique. As described, all 92TS quarter sets have a 'B' that starts with a 92 prefix, and the last three digits denote the specific quarter set. 91 and 93 digits are for A and C cars, respectively, and will match the last three digits of the 92xxx number.

91001-92001
92002-93002
91003-92003
92004-93004

etc.
 

pokemonsuper9

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No? All numbers are unique. As described, all 92TS quarter sets have a 'B' that starts with a 92 prefix, and the last three digits denote the specific quarter set. 91 and 93 digits are for A and C cars, respectively, and will match the last three digits of the 92xxx number.

91001-92001
92002-93002
91003-92003
92004-93004

etc.
Ohh, I didn't realise all the 91xxx are odd and the 93xxx are even.

I thought it was a bit odd, thanks for confirming.
 

Bigchris

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No, there aren't any duplicates, they're split odd/even depending on whether they are part of a driving pair or a trailing pair as bluegoblin says. The 91xxx driving ends are always odd numbered and are paired with the matching odd numbered 92xxx, the non-driving inner pairs are always even numbered so the even 92xxx is paired with the matching even numbered 93xxx.
 

Peter Mugridge

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This potential confusion is exactly why I only ever use the 92xxx numbers when writing these units down for haulage...
 

Peter Mugridge

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I just plan to write down the last 3 digits of units (alongside which line they're from), I think that'll work.
It will, as long as you are very clear in your notes about which line is involved - because most of the last three digits do repeat across various fleets.
 

pokemonsuper9

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It will, as long as you are very clear in your notes about which line is involved - because most of the last three digits do repeat across various fleets.
Yes that probably won't be hard, the more annoying part will be having to be at the back half (Quarter for central) of the train all the time to get the 2nd portions' number.
 

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