London Victoria ticket office reluctant to sell Boundary Zone tickets

[Sleeper]

What’s going on here?

On two occasions this month (out of two) I have gone to the main ticket office at London Victoria and asked to buy a cheap day return with Senior Railcard from Boundary Zone 6 to Canterbury Stations (first occasion) and Herne Bay (second occasion). (I hold a Freedom Pass.) On both occasions I had actually written down what I wanted and showed the clerk the note.

On both occasions I was given tickets from Swanley, the last station with Freedom Pass validity. Fortunately I checked the tickets before leaving the window. I had to point out that I had not been sold what I asked for, to which the response was that the price was the same and it made no difference. On further pointing out that the “Swanley” ticket restricted my options on return route, I was on the second occasion given the distinct feeling I was thought incompetent for not knowing which return route I would be taking!

(For the record, from Canterbury I returned to Waterloo East via Knockholt not Swanley, though from Herne Bay I returned to Victoria.)

On each occasion the tickets issued were eventually taken back and replaced by the ones I asked for, though I wouldn't say cheerfully.

I dealt with two different clerks, of mature years, apparently serious about their work – as you would expect at Victoria’s main office. This seems more like a policy issue than specific individuals needing training.

Although I have made no loss in either case, the tickets I would have been sold were more restrictive than the ones I very clearly asked for. I feel as though a letter of complaint to Southern is warranted.

What do forum members think is going on here?

 

[RJ]

It's not just Victoria it happens at.

The customer is always best off checking what they've been sold and having these things corrected immediately.

 

[Joe Paxton]

In the OP's case, I imagine Southeastern guards and RPIs would accept the combination of a Freedom Pass plus Swanley-Canterbury or Swanley-Herne Bay on the other route (via Knockholt) without issue.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

What’s going on here?

On two occasions this month (out of two) I have gone to the main ticket office at London Victoria and asked to buy a cheap day return with Senior Railcard from Boundary Zone 6 to Canterbury Stations (first occasion) and Herne Bay (second occasion). (I hold a Freedom Pass.) On both occasions I had actually written down what I wanted and showed the clerk the note.

On both occasions I was given tickets from Swanley, the last station with Freedom Pass validity. Fortunately I checked the tickets before leaving the window. I had to point out that I had not been sold what I asked for, to which the response was that the price was the same and it made no difference. On further pointing out that the “Swanley” ticket restricted my options on return route, I was on the second occasion given the distinct feeling I was thought incompetent for not knowing which return route I would be taking!

(For the record, from Canterbury I returned to Waterloo East via Knockholt not Swanley, though from Herne Bay I returned to Victoria.)

On each occasion the tickets issued were eventually taken back and replaced by the ones I asked for, though I wouldn't say cheerfully.

I dealt with two different clerks, of mature years, apparently serious about their work – as you would expect at Victoria’s main office. This seems more like a policy issue than specific individuals needing training.

Although I have made no loss in either case, the tickets I would have been sold were more restrictive than the ones I very clearly asked for. I feel as though a letter of complaint to Southern is warranted.

What do forum members think is going on here?

I agree that a letter of complaint is warranted, and the best cause of action. In this instance you didn't suffer a loss, because you knew what you needed and insisted on getting it. But others may not know what they need, or may not insist on getting what they actually want if they are not initially sold that.

If it's down to a matter of policy then hopefully the complaint can get the policy amended and ticket office staff briefed on the change. If it's down to a matter of poorly trained staff - or staff not following procedures - then hopefully the complaint will see them being retrained or being warned if they are not following procedures.

 

[MikeWh]

In the OP's case, I imagine Southeastern guards and RPIs would accept the combination of a Freedom Pass plus Swanley-Canterbury or Swanley-Herne Bay on the other route (via Knockholt) without issue.

You've got more faith than me. Guards probably would, RPIs I wouldn't like to say.

Don't forget you can also return on a Javelin to Gravesend then the Victoria service from there if you so wished.

 

[talldave]

Buy from TVMs, they might have crappy touch screens, but they sell what you ask for. I used to have similar problems at Gatwick (where the BZ ticket was valid on the Gatwick Express whilst the "named" ticket wasn't) so gave up using the ticket office and used TVMs instead. It's sad because it's almost as if some staff want to be replaced by machines .

 

[Hadders]

This isn't always an option as not all TVMs sell Boundary Zone tickets.

 

[Kite159]

Buy from TVMs, they might have crappy touch screens, but they sell what you ask for. I used to have similar problems at Gatwick (where the BZ ticket was valid on the Gatwick Express whilst the "named" ticket wasn't) so gave up using the ticket office and used TVMs instead. It's sad because it's almost as if some staff want to be replaced by machines .

Sadly the option to buying from other stations/Boundary zones was removed from the GTR TVMs last year

 

[RJ]

Buy from TVMs, they might have crappy touch screens, but they sell what you ask for. I used to have similar problems at Gatwick (where the BZ ticket was valid on the Gatwick Express whilst the "named" ticket wasn't) so gave up using the ticket office and used TVMs instead. It's sad because it's almost as if some staff want to be replaced by machines .

Not certain that's the best advice. I seem to spend a fair percentage of my shift doing refunds because people keep buying the wrong ticket from TVMs or one that's more expensive than required. On the barriers at the weekend there are countless people who have just bought an "Anytime" Day Travelcard or SDR to London from the machine and end up at the ticket office wanting a refund. I have to process these using the archaic red carbon forms, inputting it into the computer and logbook then selling the right ticket - and people aren't happy about the authorisation block on the card. Had they come to the ticket office in the first place it would have saved all concerned time and they wouldn't have to miss a train whilst the mistake is being sorted out.

Unhelpful staff is a local management issue and this should be fed back to the train company so the member of staff can be empowered with the skills to provide good customer service which would mutually benefit themselves and customers.

There seems to be some assumption that everybody has advanced skills in travel planning and ticket buying - but actually, these things are learned and many people do need assistance. Sight of this shouldn't be lost on those more familiar with the system.

 

[jon0844]

All GTR ticket machines will get a software upgrade soon to sell tickets from any origin, but whether they can 'fix' the issue of advertising the right off peak and super off peak tickets at the appropriate times is unclear.

 

[RJ]

All GTR ticket machines will get a software upgrade soon to sell tickets from any origin, but whether they can 'fix' the issue of advertising the right off peak and super off peak tickets at the appropriate times is unclear.

Of course it can be fixed - the TOCs are very good at restricting the sale of off peak tickets at peak times so it can be done. If people pay £18.10 for an ADT, they may not travel as often as if they pay £12.50 for the ODT - and I get a lot of families on weekends so the effect to them is amplified.

However the decision is made to have the ADT showing prominently on the front screen of the TVMs on weekends. People see the word “Anytime” and assume that’s what they need. “Off peak” adds a layer of complexity and a lot of people believe this restricts the times they can travel on weekends.

To be honest the TVMs should really be struck off as a legally recognised opportunity to pay because to be able to use them properly requires training and product knowledge that are not provided to customers.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Not certain that's the best advice. I seem to spend a fair percentage of my shift doing refunds because people keep buying the wrong ticket from TVMs or one that's more expensive than required. On the barriers at the weekend there are countless people who have just bought an "Anytime" Day Travelcard or SDR to London from the machine and end up at the ticket office wanting a refund. I have to process these using the archaic red carbon forms, inputting it into the computer and logbook then selling the right ticket - and people aren't happy about the authorisation block on the card. Had they come to the ticket office in the first place it would have saved all concerned time and they wouldn't have to miss a train whilst the mistake is being sorted out.

I thought some of the TIS's used by TOCs are supposed to be quite well integrated with the TVMs, enabling easier rectification at the ticket office of TVM mistakes.

TVMs shouldn't sell Anytime Day Travelcards at weekends if there is no possible need for one over an Off-Peak Day Travelcard (I appreciate that on weekdays, there may be a need as Anytime tickets are required for evening peak travel on certain routes.)

 

[Haywain]

TVMs shouldn't sell Anytime Day Travelcards at weekends if there is no possible need for one over an Off-Peak Day Travelcard (I appreciate that on weekdays, there may be a need as Anytime tickets are required for evening peak travel on certain routes.)

In many cases the same applies to Off-Peak Day Travelcards, because Super Off-Peak Day Travelcards are also available. This really should be managed in the fares data, as a default setting for the ticket type ADT, so that the options to sell are removed from all ticket issuing systems on Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays. For the ODT ticket type it's a bit more complicated because the Super Off Peak option isn't universal.

 

[talldave]

Not certain that's the best advice. I seem to spend a fair percentage of my shift doing refunds because people keep buying the wrong ticket from TVMs or one that's more expensive than required. On the barriers at the weekend there are countless people who have just bought an "Anytime" Day Travelcard or SDR to London from the machine and end up at the ticket office wanting a refund. I have to process these using the archaic red carbon forms, inputting it into the computer and logbook then selling the right ticket - and people aren't happy about the authorisation block on the card. Had they come to the ticket office in the first place it would have saved all concerned time and they wouldn't have to miss a train whilst the mistake is being sorted out.

Unhelpful staff is a local management issue and this should be fed back to the train company so the member of staff can be empowered with the skills to provide good customer service which would mutually benefit themselves and customers.

There seems to be some assumption that everybody has advanced skills in travel planning and ticket buying - but actually, these things are learned and many people do need assistance. Sight of this shouldn't be lost on those more familiar with the system.

I take your point, but my advice to use a TVM was aimed at someone who knows exactly what they want. People who need advice should have a better experience visiting the ticket office.

 

[RJ]

I thought some of the TIS's used by TOCs are supposed to be quite well integrated with the TVMs, enabling easier rectification at the ticket office of TVM mistakes.

TVMs shouldn't sell Anytime Day Travelcards at weekends if there is no possible need for one over an Off-Peak Day Travelcard (I appreciate that on weekdays, there may be a need as Anytime tickets are required for evening peak travel on certain routes.)

Some of them are and at some stations I work at, I can simply cancel tickets bought from the TVMs. But not my most frequented haunts, they have to go through the refund process at those places.

 

[Talent]

What’s going on here?

Exactly the same happened to me a few weeks ago. As you may have noticed English isn't my mother tongue so I always use TVMs rather than ticket offices. Unfortunately (as stated above) TVMs at Victoria don't sell boundary tickets (unlike those at e.g. Liverpool Street). Especially I had to show my Travelcard Z1-6 to "proof" that I'm eligible to buy a boundary ticket?!? I can understand that ticket office staff try to prevent the hassle of refunds or at the ticket barriers, but it (in my case) was more harrassment than advice.

 

[RJ]

Especially I had to show my Travelcard Z1-6 to "proof" that I'm eligible to buy a boundary ticket?!?

You should not have a problem with staff clarifying this, because it's compulsory to have a zonal ticket if you want a boundary zone extension ticket.

 

[Talent]

I don't have a problem with staff clarifying this but staff demanding to see the ticket (after several attempts to explain that I want to buy a boundary ticket including showing a forum thread on my mobile). IMHO it is compulsory having a zonal ticket before boarding a train (rather than buying a boundary ticket).

 

[A Challenge]

You should not have a problem with staff clarifying this, because it's compulsory to have a zonal ticket if you want a boundary zone extension ticket.

Surely if you are traveling from the station outside the boundary you could start short after the boundary of you wanted (I don't know why you'd want to)?

 

[RJ]

Surely if you are traveling from the station outside the boundary you could start short after the boundary of you wanted (I don't know why you'd want to)?

It's a Travelcard excess ticket.

 

[Hadders]

Surely if you are traveling from the station outside the boundary you could start short after the boundary of you wanted (I don't know why you'd want to)?

You cannot do this. You must be possession of a valid travelcard.

 

[island]

I don't think there can be a legitimate complaint that a passenger seeking a ticket from a boundary zone station be asked to show evidence of the Travelcard whose validity is being extended.