Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[ChrisPJ]

Rumour has it that the Mac Tours brand is returning soon along with a fleet of 55 plate Volvo B7TL open toppers.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Rumour has it that the Mac Tours brand is returning soon along with a fleet of 55 plate Volvo B7TL open toppers.

If thats true then im happy (not the tours the 55 plate B7s)

 

[oldman]

They (bus stop information) look better than the current version - clearer and with more intermediate points shown.

Saw some today in situ. The times are presented more clearly, but the intermediate points are in such a small font (and diagonal) that you have to get really close to read them, and if they are low down or high up, it's impossible. They could be put horizontally and in the same font as the times.

Obviously for most people it doesn't matter - they know where the bus goes, but it suggests those responsible are clueless.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Do we know if any services are switching depots with the changes on the 14 July? I'm guessing the 15 is moving to Central.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Do we know if any services are switching depots with the changes on the 14 July? I'm guessing the 15 is moving to Central.

I was thinking that aswell considering it would be a lot if dead mileage. If you also think about it the 49 is going to DD so the 15 leaving would free up some for it

 

[ScotRail158725]

Lothian B7 Update as of 04/07/19
LS- 702-708/710-718/722/724-725/734/737-739/768/771/774-775/778/780-781/784/788-789/793/801-812/814/819-820/823-825

MA-746/751-767/772/786-787/790-792/813/815-818/821-822

Withdrawn-709/719-721/723/726-733/735-736/740-745/747-750/769-770/773/776-777/779/782-783/785

As we can see all the withdrawn vehicles have roller blinds and all with LEDs are still out making me certain this is what they're withdrawing them on. I reckon the remaining ones will be withdran in this order:
1st for the door 55 plates with blinds, 2nd Longstone 56 plates with blinds, 3rd the remianing longstone ones, 4th Marine ones

 

[Jordan Adam]

Lothian B7 Update as of 04/07/19
LS- 702-708/710-718/722/724-725/734/737-739/768/771/774-775/778/780-781/784/788-789/793/801-812/814/819-820/823-825

MA-746/751-767/772/786-787/790-792/813/815-818/821-822

Withdrawn-709/719-721/723/726-733/735-736/740-745/747-750/769-770/773/776-777/779/782-783/785

As we can see all the withdrawn vehicles have roller blinds and all with LEDs are still out making me certain this is what they're withdrawing them on. I reckon the remaining ones will be withdran in this order:
1st for the door 55 plates with blinds, 2nd Longstone 56 plates with blinds, 3rd the remianing longstone ones, 4th Marine ones

I didn't realise there was still so many. Do we know if any more buses are due besides the additional XLB's? I assume all the Ex-London stock is now in service.

 

[overthewater]

No63 is staying with Lothian and it seems it will NOT change route? https://www.publiccontractsscotland.gov.uk/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=JUN358443

 

[TheEastCoaster]

No63 is staying with Lothian and it seems it will NOT change route? https://www.publiccontractsscotland.gov.uk/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=JUN358443

Is this to do with the talks of it extending to Balerno?

 

[alchemy]

I didn't realise there was still so many. Do we know if any more buses are due besides the additional XLB's? I assume all the Ex-London stock is now in service.

The dual door ones are not in service yet as far as I know

 

[winston270twm]

Rumour has it that the Mac Tours brand is returning soon along with a fleet of 55 plate Volvo B7TL open toppers.

Oh dear, and presumably match the Bright Bus Tours fares, that will wipe off the First fanboys smiles......

 

[Jordan Adam]

The dual door ones are not in service yet as far as I know

I didn't think they were. Any idea why it's taking so long? I thought there was only 10 of them - although i do read elsewhere from a post a few weeks back that they're not due to enter service until July anyway.

Oh dear, and presumably match the Bright Bus Tours fares, that will wipe off the First fanboys smiles......

I'm not actually sure if that would work. Unless they plan to do a heavily discounted ticket valid only on that service to compete with first, and then expand the standard tour tickets so they include Mac Tours. But then would that actually work our would tourists be put off by only being limited to one tour (Same can be said for First). I suspect Lothian will be willing to fork out on the cash to keep First at bay.

It will be interesting to see if it happens and how the new Mac Tours livery would look.

 

[overthewater]

First could cut its prices again to £8.. It can go lower and when it reaches a fiver most tourist will be like why pay triple the price.. End Goal has always been to reduce Lothian cash flow.

First could complain to the Traffic commierser if there is not enough space, ie it has one bus every 10mins Lothian has 4 every 10mins.. on stretch of road that can't cope with it.

 

[Jordan Adam]

First could cut its prices again to £8.. It can go lower and when it reaches a fiver most tourist will be like why pay triple the price.. End Goal has always been to reduce Lothian cash flow.

First could complain to the Traffic commierser if there is not enough space, ie it has one bus every 10mins Lothian has 4 every 10mins.. on stretch of road that can't cope with it.

I doubt First would go down to a fiver, they'd end up loosing too much money. While it is a competitive move and they probably expect to loose some money. At the same time they need to make sure it's viable while it lasts.

 

[winston270twm]

I'm not actually sure if that would work. Unless they plan to do a heavily discounted ticket valid only on that service to compete with first, and then expand the standard tour tickets so they include Mac Tours. But then would that actually work our would tourists be put off by only being limited to one tour (Same can be said for First). I suspect Lothian will be willing to fork out on the cash to keep First at bay.

It will be interesting to see if it happens and how the new Mac Tours livery would look.

I don't see why not, just setup as a low cost operation under the Mac Tours brand & match Bright Bus like for like. If Bright Bus cut fares, Mac Tours follow without damaging the premium Lothian Tours operation.

 

[overthewater]

I don't see why not, just setup as low cost operation under the Mac Tours brand & match Bright Bus like for like. If Bright Bus cut fares, Mac Tours follow without damaging the premium Tours operation.

Why would a tourist pay for a premium service if you get the same level of service from bright tours and Mac tours?

 

[winston270twm]

Why would a tourist pay for a premium service if you get the same level of service from bright tours and Mac tours?

Because they're getting access to the wider Lothian bus service network if they want it. If they don't, they go for the cheapest Tour option.

 

[overthewater]

Because they're getting access to the wider Lothian bus service network if they want it. If they don't, they go for the cheapest Tour option.

Then Lothian will need to add that option to its tickets. It's £16 per person for Red tour or the Green tour and that's it. While the majestic tour is also £16 per person.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I don't see why not, just setup as low cost operation under the Mac Tours brand & match Bright Bus like for like. If Bright Bus cut fares, Mac Tours follow without damaging the premium Tours operation.

The thing is, it probably would damage the premium tours if it picked up.

If the current tour tickets were adapted to include Mac Tours on top of a BBT price matched ticket exclusive Mac Tours then most tourists would probably go for the more expensive ticket that includes all tours. So you then loose the whole benefit of having the cheaper fare. Obviously the same could be applied to First, however their street sellers wouldn't be trying to flog the more expensive ticket as the Edinburgh Tours street sellers tend to do.

 

[A330Alex]

I didn't think they were. Any idea why it's taking so long? I thought there was only 10 of them - although i do read elsewhere from a post a few weeks back that they're not due to enter service until July anyway.

I believe part of the reason it's taken so long is that they needed to work with the council to remove street clutter blocking the rear doors. IIRC the XLBs had some issues with that down Lothian Road and they got a bit of bad PR over it.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I believe part of the reason it's taken so long is that they needed to work with the council to remove street clutter blocking the rear doors. IIRC the XLBs had some issues with that down Lothian Road and they got a bit of bad PR over it.

Makes sense, their longer length also means in some instances the rear doors may be further away from the pavement. Than on a standard decker. On perhaps an unrelated topic, but i don't see how everywhere else has issues with second doors. Aberdeen have managed fine with multiple door vehicles for years and still do, albeit since the 70s we've not had a period where the entire fleet was single door only. I think part of the issue Lothian may be having is that drivers are not allowing passengers off at the front set of doors, where as in Aberdeen if it's not too busy they do. Quite often outside the city centre it's faster to offload at the front anyway. Especially when it comes to OAPs negotiating the rear doors would be tricky.

 

[winston270twm]

The thing is, it probably would damage the premium tours if it picked up.

If the current tour tickets were adapted to include Mac Tours on top of a BBT price matched ticket exclusive Mac Tours then most tourists would probably go for the more expensive ticket that includes all tours. So you then loose the whole benefit of having the cheaper fare. Obviously the same could be applied to First, however their street sellers wouldn't be trying to flog the more expensive ticket as the Edinburgh Tours street sellers tend to do.

I don't see how, as BBT are only operating one tour route, where Lothian have far more.

A lot rides on what the Lothian commercial department are plotting next.... Lothian are by far the established tour operater & involved in the various packages deals covering multiple tours. Best to keep any competitive strike against BBT as a seperate entity, especially given First Group UK Bus uncertainty, any change of ownership for Scotland East could change things quickly.

 

[OmniCity999]

Could you imagine... Mactours

£5 Single (Adult or Child) or £10 for a single and use of the entire Lothian Bus network.

B7's (Closed top) painted in a Mactours scheme then repainted back into fleet livery to replace buses used to compete with First (who have set up a City Service by this point) in retaliation.

Imagine...

Not going to happen, Mactours is dormant, but it wont be coming back for this type of work - as far as i know...:P Lothian are going to stay put .Have you seen the advertising at Haymarket? Above the entrance, above the ticket office, on the ticket gates and on the floor, not to mention the adverts for City Sightseeing on some LCB and fleet deckers. Then theres more advertising going up in tourist hotspots. With more ticket sellers and ticket selling locations city wide. Nothing's happening, sorry. Well lots is happening. You may see prices drop, though.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I don't see how, as BBT are only operating one tour route, where Lothian have far more.

A lot rides on what the Lothian commercial department are plotting next.... Lothian are by far the established tour operater & involved in the various packages deals covering multiple tours. Best to keep any competitive strike against BBT as a seperate entity, especially given First Group UK Bus uncertainty, any change of ownership for Scotland East could change things quickly.

See what i said in my last post "Obviously the same could be applied to First, however their street sellers wouldn't be trying to flog the more expensive ticket as the Edinburgh Tours street sellers tend to do."

Lothian are more established, bigger and probably at an overall perspective offer better value for money if you're in the city for multiple days, it doesn't take a genius to work that out.

But it's really all about the up front cost. If you see two pretty much identical products, one for £10 and one for £16 you're going to pick the £10 option. Many of the tourists may actually go for one trip round on the tour buses. Or may just spend one day using it to visit main attractions, stay at a hotel in the city centre and travel by train - in this situation it doesn't really matter if your more expensive ticket covers more as all the customer wants is a ride round the city in a open top bus seeing the main attractions.

Could you imagine... Mactours

£5 Single (Adult or Child) or £10 for a single and use of the entire Lothian Bus network.

B7's (Closed top) painted in a Mactours scheme then repainted back into fleet livery to replace buses used to compete with First (who have set up a City Service by this point) in retaliation.

Imagine...

Not going to happen, Mactours is dormant, but it wont be coming back for this type of work - as far as i know...:P Lothian are going to stay put .Have you seen the advertising at Haymarket? Above the entrance, above the ticket office, on the ticket gates and on the floor, not to mention the adverts for City Sightseeing on some LCB and fleet deckers. Then theres more advertising going up in tourist hotspots. With more ticket sellers and ticket selling locations city wide. Nothing's happening, sorry. Well lots is happening. You may see prices drop, though.

I'd agree i can't see it happening, especially given the set up costs. I just can't imagine BBT being that huge of a threat, as i've stated already there's room for both. I think it would be better if Lothian spent money on marketing (as they are) and then maybe dropped the price down to £15 or not at all. There's no point dropping it much more though as then revenue would decrease significantly and thus Jarvis would get what he wants.

 

[OmniCity999]

I'd agree i can't see it happening, especially given the set up costs. I just can't imagine BBT being that huge of a threat, as i've stated already there's room for both. I think it would be better if Lothian spent money on marketing (as they are) and then maybe dropped the price down to £15 or not at all. There's no point dropping it much more though as then revenue would decrease significantly and thus Jarvis would get what he wants.

I think we'll see Bright Bus just maintain what their doing, make good money, upgrade the service and maybe add extra routes. Then if Lothian wipe the floor in West Lothian, not saying they will or could, then First would have to cut Bright Bus, their not going to run empty from Larbert etc.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I think we'll see Bright Bus just maintain what their doing, make good money, upgrade the service and maybe add extra routes. Then if Lothian wipe the floor in West Lothian, not saying they will or could, then First would have to cut Bright Bus, their not going to run empty from Larbert etc.

The ideal situation would be Lothian pulling out of WL and First pulling out of tours, But that's probably not going to happen. Obviously you being employed by Lothian i can understand you wanting them to wipe the floor in WL, but given the current decisions LCB have made in WL i don't at all think this would be a positive thing for residents. Despite First still being in the league in WL i suspect in the long run Lothian will probably unfortunately win. They have more drive and determination than First do, albeit determination doesn't always lead to victory. If they were to win i hope they sack the network manager for LCB and get someone who actually knows the area in! However that's a discussion for another topic...

 

[winston270twm]

See what i said in my last post "Obviously the same could be applied to First, however their street sellers wouldn't be trying to flog the more expensive ticket as the Edinburgh Tours street sellers tend to do."

Lothian are more established, bigger and probably at an overall perspective offer better value for money if you're in the city for multiple days, it doesn't take a genius to work that out.

But it's really all about the up front cost. If you see two pretty much identical products, one for £10 and one for £16 you're going to pick the £10 option. Many of the tourists may actually go for one trip round on the tour buses. Or may just spend one day using it to visit main attractions, stay at a hotel in the city centre and travel by train - in this situation it doesn't really matter if your more expensive ticket covers more as all the customer wants is a ride round the city in a open top bus seeing the main attractions.

I saw what you said in your last post, don't need any attitude.

It's up to Lothian what they choose to charge and where they go from here. Tourists do not visit typically visit Edinburgh for just one day, typically they spend min a weekend there or a midweek break of 2-3 days. Anyone stopping for just 24 hrs will be enroute elsewhere / simply just passing through.

 

[OmniCity999]

The ideal situation would be Lothian pulling out of WL and First pulling out of tours, But that's probably not going to happen. Obviously you being employed by Lothian i can understand you wanting them to wipe the floor in WL, but given the current decisions LCB have made in WL i don't at all think this would be a positive thing for residents. Despite First still being in the league in WL i suspect in the long run Lothian will probably unfortunately win. They have more drive and determination than First do, albeit determination doesn't always lead to victory. If they were to win i hope they sack the network manager for LCB and get someone who actually knows the area in! However that's a discussion for another topic...

No ill intentions for First, i genuinely wish them the best. I work in the industry yes, but it makes it all very interesting.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I saw what you said in your last post, don't need any attitude.

It's up to Lothian what they choose to charge and where they go from here. Tourists do not visit typically visit Edinburgh for just one day, typically they spend min a weekend there or a midweek break of 2-3 days. Anyone stopping for just 24 hrs will be enroute elsewhere / simply just passing through.

Firstly i'll apologise, it wasn't intended as any attitude. Sometimes posts can come off the wrong way online. The first bit you have in bold i was simply just referring back to what i had already said as i still believed that quote applied to what you had said in the reply.
The second bit in bold i was more actually agreeing with what you had said regarding Lothian being more established, i don't really see what was wrong here as it literally doesn't take a genius to work that out! :P

Indeed sometimes tourists may spend multiple days in Edinburgh, however the point was that very often they may have one particular day where they don't plan to do anything other than hop on the tour bus round the centre. As a random example a group from Hull may go to Edinburgh for Three nights (Friday through to Monday), they may arrive on Friday evening and as such not do anything that day, then on Saturday they may visit the Zoo, Sunday they may walk up to Edinburgh Castle, by this point they've not thought about using the tour yet, Monday comes and they don't plan to get a train home until tea time. This means they've got all daytime to spare, so they opt to hop on a tour bus they don't care where it goes they just want to see more of the city. Obviously they're more likely to go with the cheapest option, in which case BBT would be the choice. I'm not saying all tourists or even a large potion would, however it's just one example of what i mean when i say part of what matters is the upfront cost of doing just one tour round the city and not perhaps what the ticket offers as a whole.

No ill intentions for First, i genuinely wish them the best. I work in the industry yes, but it makes it all very interesting.

Likewise with Lothian, i was just saying that it's totally understandable you'd prefer Lothian. I do too, i just think they've made a total mess of WL.

 

[OmniCity999]

Likewise with Lothian, i was just saying that it's totally understandable you'd prefer Lothian. I do too, i just think they've made a total mess of WL.

I can assure you that Lothian have kept a close eye on West Lothian since the 90's. The last 5 years they've had a really good look into the area and the services they provide were extensively researched and designed.

Passenger numbers are slowly picking up. If the Green arrow services are successful, more will be added. If they are not, the 8 coaches could be used on East Coast or Express city services. They could even be converted to school buses, costly school buses, mind.

Just so happens they waited until Firsts other branches closed to give them a slightly better chance. Borders, East Lothian closed, Lothian moved in, First were weak in Edinburgh at the time so Lothian had full advantage of that.