Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[Gingerbus1991]

Still, is there anything original in WL they could be doing differently, of course.

The absolute biggest losing factor is there lack of weekly or monthly option at LCB, as has been discussed before the lack of them at ECB has been a rare success by the looks of things, it's clear that WL punters are glued to them, if weekly and monthly option were looked at I think more WL people would swap over, especially if they undercut FSE. As discussed above I do not want to see any company faulter, but in the bare face of things First Groups reputation precedes them across Scotland, putting aside divisional differences.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I can assure you that Lothian have kept a close eye on West Lothian since the 90's. The last 5 years they've had a really good look into the area and the services they provide were extensively researched and designed.

Passenger numbers are slowly picking up. If the Green arrow services are successful, more will be added. If they are not, the 8 coaches could be used on East Coast or Express city services. They could even be converted to school buses, costly school buses, mind.

Just so happens they waited until Firsts other branches closed to give them a slightly better chance. Borders, East Lothian closed, Lothian moved in, First were weak in Edinburgh at the time so Lothian had full advantage of that.

Here’s an absolute penny for a thought, why haven’t East Coast done something like this for Dunbar at peak times? A direct service from Edinburgh via the A1 to the A199 to West Barns? Could benefit many of the passengers on the X7 since the biggest complaint seems to be the services are over crowded at peak times all the way to Haddington.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Here’s an absolute penny for a thought, why haven’t East Coast done something like this for Dunbar at peak times? A direct service from Edinburgh via the A1 to the A199 to West Barns? Could benefit many of the passengers on the X7 since the biggest complaint seems to be the services are over crowded at peak times all the way to Haddington.

I was waiting for a service during rush hour recently, at a stop on Princes Street which is served by ECB. There were two X7s due, one going all the way to Dunbar and the other only going to Haddington (fast via the A1, I would assume). The Dunbar bus turned up first, and so all the Dunbar AND Haddington commuters tried to squeeze on (this was a single-decker bus). The bus left full and standing. Less than 5 minutes later, the X7 to Haddington turned up (operated by a double deck bus). However because all the Haddington commuters had squeezed onto the Dunbar bus, the Haddington one left almost empty.
Would the overcrowding problem be solved by running the double-decker to Haddington first (allowing all the Haddington commuters to get a seat), and then follow it with the Dunbar single-deck bus, which should have plenty of space on it since there would be no Haddington commuters on it.

 

[OmniCity999]

There was talk of an X8 service that would go follow the X7 stopping pattern to Asda Jewel, then non stop to Abbey toll, which is the first stop after Haddington, just for Dunbar commuters. With the peak X7 double continuing to run and a 106 running Haddington to Dunbar for any stragglers. But nothing has come of it as of yet.

 

[Edirim]

747 back in use at MA.
823 still at CE.

Interesting re the X8...hopefully it comes true or the GA express buses eventually find their way over there.

I know that the double deck Haddington peak extra X7s are now to extend to Dunbar but with the low bridges are East Linton & Dunbar itself I can't see them being operated by deckers...queue angry commuters!

 

[OmniCity999]

747 back in use at MA.
823 still at CE.

Interesting re the X8...hopefully it comes true or the GA express buses eventually find their way over there.

I know that the double deck Haddington peak extra X7s are now to extend to Dunbar but with the low bridges are East Linton & Dunbar itself I can't see them being operated by deckers...queue angry commuters!

Green Arrow services are only for West Lothian. They wont leave this area.

Deckers can run to Dunbar, they would just omit East Linton and terminate on Dunbar high street. Or going forward they me be able to lower the road in East Linton, it's only just too short. Deckers used to run there.

It wouldnt be much work to do and if capacity required it, it could be arranged the next time the road is re laid. It's not as much work as Newcraighall would be, in years gone by Lothian pushed for the council and network rail to drop the road but cost outweighed the benefits, factoring in profit loss on the railway and buses and the works themselves i believe it was over the £1m mark.

New bridge, lower road, considerable gradient added at track level, labour, profit loss on the railway, bus diversions and losses it was astronomical - although in my opinion would make sense, just not for that price.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Green Arrow services are only for West Lothian. They wont leave this area.

Deckers can run to Dunbar, they would just omit East Linton and terminate on Dunbar high street. Or going forward they me be able to lower the road in East Linton, it's only just too short. Deckers used to run there. It wouldnt be much work to do and if capacity required it, it could be arranged the next time the road is re laid.

The First Scanias wich sometimes ran on the Dunbar routes were just low enough to fit under, they were shorter than other vehicles so they could run it

 

[Steamysandy]

Eastern (pre First) ran Decker's regularly to Dunbar via East Linton. I used the route regularly for nearly 20 years

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Eastern (pre First) ran Decker's regularly to Dunbar via East Linton. I used the route regularly for nearly 20 years

My first trip to my sisters in Edinburgh was a lengthy trip up the A1 about summer 1984 and we passed an Eastern (not Lowland) Olympian going at some speed on a evening run to Dunbar!

 

[alexf380]

Pretty sure they were also lowheight deckers as well? The 10m long Tridents First had were barred from East Linton.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Pretty sure they were also lowheight deckers as well? The 10m long Tridents First had were barred from East Linton.

As with most London spec vehicles those President's First had were full height.

The height limit for the Bridge is 13ft 9. So a low height E400MMC would fit under (like what First/Stagecoach). I can't find any sources to confirm the height of a low height Streetdeck/Gemini 3 (Full height ones are 14ft 4), however i've seen photos of them going under bridges marked as 13ft 9, so i'd assume on that basis that they'd fit under.

 

[GusB]

My first trip to my sisters in Edinburgh was a lengthy trip up the A1 about summer 1984 and we passed an Eastern (not Lowland) Olympian going at some speed on a evening run to Dunbar!

Could that possibly have been one of the Alexander RLC-bodied Olympians that Eastern had? I think those ones were fitted with high-speed rear axles for Citylink work, but it's possible that they would have been used on local work.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Could that possibly have been one of the Alexander RLC-bodied Olympians that Eastern had? I think those ones were fitted with high-speed rear axles for Citylink work, but it's possible that they would have been used on local work.

No, Dunbar had a pair of RL Olympians for the 106. Looking on Flickr, they were ALS116Y and A143BSC so one of those.

 

[DunsBus]

Dunbar also had B159KSC for the 106, which was delivered shortly before the depot passed to Lowland in June 1985. This was also an Olympian/RL. Sister B160KSC joined it the following year (in Lowland days) whilst March 1987 saw two brand-new Olympian/RLs, D901/2CSH, allocated to the depot. This saw A143BSC leave for Galashiels via SBG Engineering, where it was upgraded with coach seats for use on the 62.

Drivelines were:

ALS916Y and A143BSC - ONLXB/1R
B159KSC and B160KSC - ONTL11/1R
D901CSH and D902CSH - ONTL11/2RH.

 

[Steamysandy]

Strangely I'd forgotten about D901/902 CSH - not that I wasn't on them often enough!
Last I heard 902 was at the GVVT depot at Beith having been bought on withdrawal from Balfron

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Services 27 and 29 being operated by XLB's today.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Dunbar also had B159KSC for the 106, which was delivered shortly before the depot passed to Lowland in June 1985. This was also an Olympian/RL. Sister B160KSC joined it the following year (in Lowland days) whilst March 1987 saw two brand-new Olympian/RLs, D901/2CSH, allocated to the depot. This saw A143BSC leave for Galashiels via SBG Engineering, where it was upgraded with coach seats for use on the 62.

Drivelines were:

ALS916Y and A143BSC - ONLXB/1R
B159KSC and B160KSC - ONTL11/1R
D901CSH and D902CSH - ONTL11/2RH.

It would have been 1984 so one of the Gardners. Eastern was a great firm in those days!

 

[smtglasgow]

Whereabouts was the depot in Dunbar and when did it close? I’d no idea it was still going in the late 80s. Funny how North Berwick has thrived while Dunbar closed – those depot workings to and from Musselburgh can't be adding anything to the bottom line. Wonder if ECB would ever consider a depot at somewhere like Haddington to cover NB and Dunbar?

 

[Steamysandy]

Dunbar depot was west of the High Street on Countess Crescent and is now the site of a CoopSupermarket which is why it closed- they got an offer too good to pass
When Ian Glass sold out to Lowland in Haddington,that depot was included but it too was sold.I think it's now Travis Perkins next to Prentices depot on Hospital Road.
A year or two back there was a proposal to open a new depot at Macmerry Industrial Estate to replace Musselburgh because of traffic issues but First had other issues and it was dropped.

 

[smtglasgow]

Dunbar depot was west of the High Street on Countess Crescent and is now the site of a CoopSupermarket

Thanks. I was (just) too young to know about all that. I’ve seen pictures of the interior of Dunbar depot from the 1960s, but nothing more recent – somehow I thought it had closed during the 70s.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Do we know if any services are switching depots with the changes on the 14 July? I'm guessing the 15 is moving to Central.

I am wondering if the 33 is switching. I would never have thought it likely but there are big changes in it and it is no longer running part route buses back to Longstone in the evenings.
https://twitter.com/KatKerr248/status/1147538762060259328

 

[OmniCity999]

More new toys and second hand purchases this year and next.

Each subsidiary is getting something new and B7's (in their current form) will be gone from the main fleet by the end of January 2020 and gone entirely by April 2020.

 

[ScotRail158725]

More new toys and second hand purchases this year and next.

Each subsidiary is getting something new and B7's (in their current form) will be gone from the main fleet by the end of January 2020 and gone entirely by April 2020.

Was going to ask if Lothian were going to buy some of the Ex Tower Transit VNs wich are being withdrawn, any idea what the basis the B7s are being withdrawn on is? I still reckon the ones with blinds are going first

 

[OmniCity999]

Was going to ask if Lothian were going to buy some of the Ex Tower Transit VNs wich are being withdrawn, any idea what the basis the B7s are being withdrawn on is? I still reckon the ones with blinds are going first

Blinds and maintenance. Those that are deemed in better condition are offered for sale first, from what I've seen anyway.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Blinds and maintenance. Those that are deemed in better condition are offered for sale first, from what I've seen anyway.

Ok cheers for the info, should mean 708 is staying out after the 14th hopefully

 

[OmniCity999]

Ok cheers for the info, should mean 708 is staying out after the 14th hopefully

Depends. Ex Londoners will enter service and once the new airlines arrive and the old ones are refurbished that'll remove a chunk if B7's.

 

[route101]

As with most London spec vehicles those President's First had were full height.

The height limit for the Bridge is 13ft 9. So a low height E400MMC would fit under (like what First/Stagecoach). I can't find any sources to confirm the height of a low height Streetdeck/Gemini 3 (Full height ones are 14ft 4), however i've seen photos of them going under bridges marked as 13ft 9, so i'd assume on that basis that they'd fit under.

First Glasgow MMCs do not go on the 6 and the Busby railway bridge is 13 ft 9. So might be too tight , low heights e400s are used

 

[Jordan Adam]

First Glasgow MMCs do not go on the 6 and the Busby railway bridge is 13 ft 9. So might be too tight , low heights e400s are used

Lowheight E400MMC's are 13ft 7. All of Glasgow's E400MMC's bar the 65 plates are low height.

 

[overthewater]

One hopes the paper timetables have come out. Last service, the paper copies never appeared until the Friday.

 

[CM]

Lowheight E400MMC's are 13ft 7 (4.2M). All of Glasgow's E400MMC's bar the 65 plates are low height.

Along with the Airport Enviro 400s as there is currently no E400MMC Citys in low height form until Stagecoach take delivery of theirs.