Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[ChrisPJ]

Lothian should have been ahead of the game in this and I agree, implement the contactless payment facility first, develop the clever stuff later.

I wonder, have they made the wrong call by stubbornly sticking with Parkeon unlike most of the UK industry who have changed supplier?

No doubt there’ll be some tram related reason why going over to a different ETM manufacturer wasn’t the preferred option.

 

[Fryschocream]

Purely business decision to stay with current supplier. As for AVL this is also in the mix for replacement but as with most things it's very expensive and takes long lead times......from manufacturers I'll add....to get it going.

You seem to forget that LB was the first operator to have a working smart card product in the UK. It still functions very well today. That also took a while to implement. That's because it wasn't procured half arsed.

 

[scosutsut]

Sounds like some smart decision making at Lothian HQ as rather than running out to buy the same kit as everyone else they've thought it through and had the foresight to think of what they want the system to do, spending the time to get it right no doubt saving lots in the process.

Looking forward to chastising other operators in the near future for it being ridiculous that they don't support capping in 2019.

 

[ChrisPJ]

The original smart cards did work well considering it was obsolescent Wayfarer 3 machines they were bolted onto. But I’ll bet the lack of contactless is a factor in the recent passenger decline, it’s quite hard to use Lothian services as a visitor to the city.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Service 15 remains at Marine.

 

[scosutsut]

One thing I remain confused with its the Lothiancity brand on the new Tri axles that was also briefly on one of two repainted ALX400 nybrids* then removed.

The latest timetables seen to use it, and it aligns to the changed logos elsewhere (LC) - so I assume it is still change that will arrive and be applied across the main fleet?

Anyone in the know able to comment? Appreciate the answer may be no!

(* - deliberate word play!)

 

[oldman]

What happens when this happens? 'We are currently experiencing a service disruption which is preventing some Visa transactions in Europe from being processed. We are investigating the cause and working as quickly as possible to resolve the situation. ' (June 2018) Do you have to pay for a journey which should have been free?

I don't understand the point of introducing capping in a city like this (except as a vanity project, which New Lothian don't do, do they). I assume you still need to tell the driver where you are going on variable fare routes, so no time saving. Actually on Skylink they never ask for your destination so I guess now they will have to.

The existing range of day and season tickets works fine for most regular users - you could introduce online ordering for Ridacards for people remote from the enquiry offices so they are easier to buy. I use contactless all the time, but I'd still buy a season ticket.

The great thing about Oyster is speed of boarding (you actually do tap in, not stop by the driver, place card on reader through a hole in the bandit screen and wait) and the ability to cope with fiendishly complicated tariffs. I don't see the first happening here and the second isn't necessary in Lothianland.

And what happens if two people are travelling together - say a trip into town by a couple, one commutes by bus, the other drives to work?

 

[Weemidi135]

Just as a matter of interest, does any bus company apply a 'tap out' system? How does this work if the kit is on a vehicle rather than a barriered bus station exit? Are passengers charged the maximum fare if they leave the bus forgetting to tap out? Or is there a member of staff to ensure passengers don't leave the bus until they've tapped their card so the right fare is charged? Like a bus conductor perhaps.

In the case of London and Edinburgh there is only 1 fare you can be charged for a single journey there for the need for a tap out system is negated

 

[ScotRail158725]

25 is running from both Longstone and Marine today

 

[Lothian_Bus]

25 is running from both Longstone and Marine today

Longstone usually does provide peak hour services Monday to Friday. Is what you are seeing in addition to this?

 

[ScotRail158725]

Longstone usually does provide peak hour services Monday to Friday. Is what you are seeing in addition to this?

Yep there still is 7 or 8 Longstone B7s out just now, they were showing Restalrig earlier wich isnt served by peak Longstone services

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Yep there still is 7 or 8 Longstone B7s out just now, they were showing Restalrig earlier wich isnt served by peak Longstone services

That makes sense. I guess something had to happen to accommodate the 49 moving to double deckers. I think Marine must still cover all of the 25 on a Sunday though.

 

[takno]

What happens when this happens? 'We are currently experiencing a service disruption which is preventing some Visa transactions in Europe from being processed. We are investigating the cause and working as quickly as possible to resolve the situation. ' (June 2018) Do you have to pay for a journey which should have been free?

I don't understand the point of introducing capping in a city like this (except as a vanity project, which New Lothian don't do, do they). I assume you still need to tell the driver where you are going on variable fare routes, so no time saving. Actually on Skylink they never ask for your destination so I guess now they will have to.

The existing range of day and season tickets works fine for most regular users - you could introduce online ordering for Ridacards for people remote from the enquiry offices so they are easier to buy. I use contactless all the time, but I'd still buy a season ticket.

The great thing about Oyster is speed of boarding (you actually do tap in, not stop by the driver, place card on reader through a hole in the bandit screen and wait) and the ability to cope with fiendishly complicated tariffs. I don't see the first happening here and the second isn't necessary in Lothianland.

And what happens if two people are travelling together - say a trip into town by a couple, one commutes by bus, the other drives to work?

Thanks for that burst of positivity. In response I'd point out that 90% of journeys are flat fare, and many of the buses are getting contactless pads outside of the cab in the place you'd expect to find them in London. Additionally I rarely know upfront whether it will be worth getting a day ticket, and currently end up having to mess around waiting for direct buses in order to avoid paying double, which capping and ideally a future rollout of transfers addresses nicely.

Not everything always has to be a bad thing or a gimmick.

 

[OmniCity999]

found online.

 

[OmniCity999]

Found online again...

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

I'd have thought that they'd want to keep with a more uniform livery as Lothian already has more than 3 but I have to say I do like them. Any idea when they will be released in to the wild?

 

[Jordan Adam]

It's an okay livery but it's not very eye catching and rather "20 years ago". I'd of expected something with more wow factor.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Found online again...

That's rather rancid.

 

[Darklord8899]

....I don't dislike it....just not very exciting

 

[OmniCity999]

I think it's simple and classy with a nod to the past

It's good because it allows people to say to tourists "look for the big blue bus" appreciate more could have been done but then you can go too far and make it busy like the blue sky thinking B9's.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I think it's simple and classy with a nod to the past

It's good because it allows people to say to tourists "look for the big blue bus" appreciate more could have been done but then you can go too far and make it busy like the blue sky thinking B9's.

I fear they may have a higher chance of travelling with Sid to another city if you say that!

 

[ScotRail158725]

found online.

A nicer shade of blue would be better or even the same livery as on 17 plate airlinks now

 

[OmniCity999]

I fear they may have a higher chance of travelling with Sid to another city if you say that!

Possibly, but Sid's very rarely seen on Waverly bridge or at the Airport. Occasionally on Princes Street, but not so much that it would be that much of an issue. Chances are they'll ask the driver anyway.

Mind you, havent you heard Lothian are buying megabus and painting the Madder?



I joke but Mr Halls done more bizarre things let's be honest.

 

[OmniCity999]

A nicer shade of blue would be better or even the same livery as on 17 plate airlinks now

Agreed. Or a complete rebrand. But hey what do I know, I just fix them.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

How many liveries do Lothian need though overall? I was thinking about this not long ago, as we have several. (pics not mine but handly were all on Stuarts flickr)
Rounded madder & gold https://www.flickr.com/photos/stuart_montgomery/48050824286/in/datetaken/
Sharper lines - https://www.flickr.com/photos/stuart_montgomery/48177768746/in/datetaken/
Gold pin stripe - https://www.flickr.com/photos/stuart_montgomery/48009200208/in/datetaken/
Red fangs - https://www.flickr.com/photos/stuart_montgomery/48025647673/in/datetaken/
tuxedo - https://www.flickr.com/photos/stuart_montgomery/48025715542/in/datetaken/

This does not include Skylink, Airlink (both old and new), advert buses, white wrap buses, LCB, ECB, LMC or any of the tours and any other i forgot about. Lothian just got rid of the gold on the 7905s too. I understand there is no point in repainting the B7s as they are due to exit soon but surely you'd stick with one main livery over the others, but all those in such short time period since getting rid of the harliquen?!

 

[Jordan Adam]

I know we've perhaps moved on from the subject, but regarding contactless payments. First Aberdeen are introducing both "tap in" and capping this Sunday to compliment contactless which was introduced well over two years ago.

 

[OmniCity999]

First Aberdeen are introducing both "tap in" and capping this Sunday to compliment contactless which was introduced well over two years ago.

As you've said numerous times already, it's getting tiresome now mate. We get it. We're behind you dont need to remind us. We know... move on.

 

[Jordan Adam]

As you've said numerous times already, it's getting tiresome now mate. We get it. We're behind you dont need to remind us. We know... move on.

Actually i've not. Tap in and capping was only officially announced today...

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

As you've said numerous times already, it's getting tiresome now mate. We get it. We're behind you dont need to remind us. We know... move on.

I think the issue we are trying to get at here, is that Lothian could have adopted must simpler solutions, to begin with, and then develop their ideas to cover fare capping, multi-"operator" ticketing, etc. Doing things in small steps would probably have worked better too.

Stagecoach, as far as I am aware, does not support daily capping in any of their operating areas, and instead, have a very simple option to pay your fare by contactless. I don't understand why, with a bit of investment, Lothian couldn't have adopted this solution, even to start with. Passengers don't seem to mind.

Do Lothian think they have to be the mini version of London? Dual-door buses, "oyster" system...

the company wanted to keep the system familiar for current drivers so had to have close talks with the manufacturer.

That's just an excuse. For example, Xplore Dundee moved from Wayfarer to Ticketer in December 2018, National Express West Midlands (who are on-par with, if not bigger, than Lothian's network size) moved to "init" machines from Wayfarers last year too. As with all new technology, it took a bit of time for drivers to get used to, but in the long-term, they have both been good investments.

Although, I do give Lothian respect for taking their time to think about this innovation (tongue in cheek) thoroughly. Let's hope the junction at Stanley Road/Newhaven Road isn't so hard-hit this time.

 

[ScotRail158725]

1000 LX11 CVM has had its rear doors removed unike the rest of the batch, anyone know why?